Fiat Coupe, Lexus V8 and a Mazda MX5
Discussion
I'm sure I read an article in Cars and Car Conversions back in the day where a fella had done exactly this to his peugeot 205 gti. Apparently worked very well but I can't find it in my old CCC's. Been in the loft and everything!
An amazing project, part of me thinks why? but hats off to the research, execution and thought processes. love your Renault espace project too
An amazing project, part of me thinks why? but hats off to the research, execution and thought processes. love your Renault espace project too
The espace isn't mine. Just part of what inspired me with this project.
The Peugeot you speak of is in practical performance car. July 2014 in fact. It belongs to Julian of Balance motorsport.
https://balancemotorsport.co.uk/project-cars
It worked really well in the little 1.9 engine. The majority of rear mount turbos are on big capacity V8 engines where the sheer amount of gas flow means it can compete with conventional systems.
Imagine what they thought back in the day when GM started bolting these tiny turbos directly to the engine?
"What putting a turbosupercharger so close to that source of heat"
It probably sounded as crazy back then as rear mounting does now.
Don't fight it, let's just see how it goes. If it works as well as I've heard it'll have been a cheap way to a few extra ponies.
It's basically fitting a different exhaust with a turbo bolted to it and a pipe back the inlet. Job done *
The Peugeot you speak of is in practical performance car. July 2014 in fact. It belongs to Julian of Balance motorsport.
https://balancemotorsport.co.uk/project-cars
It worked really well in the little 1.9 engine. The majority of rear mount turbos are on big capacity V8 engines where the sheer amount of gas flow means it can compete with conventional systems.
Imagine what they thought back in the day when GM started bolting these tiny turbos directly to the engine?
"What putting a turbosupercharger so close to that source of heat"
It probably sounded as crazy back then as rear mounting does now.
Don't fight it, let's just see how it goes. If it works as well as I've heard it'll have been a cheap way to a few extra ponies.
It's basically fitting a different exhaust with a turbo bolted to it and a pipe back the inlet. Job done *
- plus a few little odds and sods
TooMany2cvs said:
Isn't a rear-mounted turbo going to be more than a little...
...
...
<waits for letter to arrive from engine to turbo>
...
...
<waits for letter of reply to arrive from turbo back to engine>
...
... bit laggy?
Your ideas of what happens are a bit 1970s to say the least....
...
<waits for letter to arrive from engine to turbo>
...
...
<waits for letter of reply to arrive from turbo back to engine>
...
... bit laggy?
We used to lower the CR, fit turbo friendly cams and lose power and response at low RPM to gain it back again (and then some) when the turbo was doing its stuff at higher rpm.
With a turbo N/A there is none of that, you have an engine which still gives the same power and response off-boost that it did before, only now it has more power on-boost than it did before. How is that undesirable in any way?
It isn't turbo lag, it's simply waiting for the extra power to arrive whilst still using what you had before.
Next you'll be telling us how a turbo pushes air into the engine, how explosions occur to power a correctly running engine and how a crankshaft dips into a sump of oil to lubricate its bearings and other things you read in a Ladybird book of engines....
227bhp said:
TooMany2cvs said:
Isn't a rear-mounted turbo going to be more than a little...
...
...
<waits for letter to arrive from engine to turbo>
...
...
<waits for letter of reply to arrive from turbo back to engine>
...
... bit laggy?
Your ideas of what happens are a bit 1970s to say the least....
...
<waits for letter to arrive from engine to turbo>
...
...
<waits for letter of reply to arrive from turbo back to engine>
...
... bit laggy?
We used to lower the CR, fit turbo friendly cams and lose power and response at low RPM to gain it back again (and then some) when the turbo was doing its stuff at higher rpm.
With a turbo N/A there is none of that, you have an engine which still gives the same power and response off-boost that it did before, only now it has more power on-boost than it did before. How is that undesirable in any way?
It isn't turbo lag, it's simply waiting for the extra power to arrive whilst still using what you had before.
Next you'll be telling us how a turbo pushes air into the engine, how explosions occur to power a correctly running engine and how a crankshaft dips into a sump of oil to lubricate its bearings and other things you read in a Ladybird book of engines....
Meanwhile, feel free to explain how anything more than negligible boost won't cause preignition without reducing the compression ratio or using knock detectors to pull the ignition timing and/or boost RIGHT back. Not exactly rocket science there - Saab's APC over thirty years ago. Oh, and splash lubrication died out in the 1920s.
But, yes, a turbo DOES push air into the engine. What did you think it did?
I suspect from context 227bhp is referring to a "turbo'd" NA but I'll let him argue what he meant.
WRT the 1UZ-FE it has knock sensors and will tolerate quite a reasonable amount of boost on the standard ECU. Beyond that you'll need something else but they'll take about 550-575hp or so without any changes at all, not even opened up, just boost and go. You'd probably even manage 600hp or so but unlikely to last that long.
WRT the 1UZ-FE it has knock sensors and will tolerate quite a reasonable amount of boost on the standard ECU. Beyond that you'll need something else but they'll take about 550-575hp or so without any changes at all, not even opened up, just boost and go. You'd probably even manage 600hp or so but unlikely to last that long.
The 1uz V8 was originally designed for 500bhp to be used as a gt class race engine, but toyota either pulled the plug or the class rules changed leaving the engine redundant.
They de tuned it by half and dropped it in the big barges of the day like the crown before it ended up in the lexus.
They regularly take up to 8psi of boost from some quite large turbos with only a few tweets to the fuel pressure.
Of course with MS3 which I'll be using later on I'd like to use two of these GT35 sized turbos to net that 500bhp
These engines really are little gems and only now are the drift boys starting to push the prices up of donor vehicles like the LS400 or the more sought after rear sump set up of the Soarer model.
They de tuned it by half and dropped it in the big barges of the day like the crown before it ended up in the lexus.
They regularly take up to 8psi of boost from some quite large turbos with only a few tweets to the fuel pressure.
Of course with MS3 which I'll be using later on I'd like to use two of these GT35 sized turbos to net that 500bhp
These engines really are little gems and only now are the drift boys starting to push the prices up of donor vehicles like the LS400 or the more sought after rear sump set up of the Soarer model.
TooMany2cvs said:
227bhp said:
TooMany2cvs said:
Isn't a rear-mounted turbo going to be more than a little...
...
...
<waits for letter to arrive from engine to turbo>
...
...
<waits for letter of reply to arrive from turbo back to engine>
...
... bit laggy?
Your ideas of what happens are a bit 1970s to say the least....
...
<waits for letter to arrive from engine to turbo>
...
...
<waits for letter of reply to arrive from turbo back to engine>
...
... bit laggy?
We used to lower the CR, fit turbo friendly cams and lose power and response at low RPM to gain it back again (and then some) when the turbo was doing its stuff at higher rpm.
With a turbo N/A there is none of that, you have an engine which still gives the same power and response off-boost that it did before, only now it has more power on-boost than it did before. How is that undesirable in any way?
It isn't turbo lag, it's simply waiting for the extra power to arrive whilst still using what you had before.
Next you'll be telling us how a turbo pushes air into the engine, how explosions occur to power a correctly running engine and how a crankshaft dips into a sump of oil to lubricate its bearings and other things you read in a Ladybird book of engines....
Meanwhile, feel free to explain how anything more than negligible boost won't cause preignition without reducing the compression ratio or using knock detectors to pull the ignition timing and/or boost RIGHT back. Not exactly rocket science there - Saab's APC over thirty years ago. Oh, and splash lubrication died out in the 1920s.
But, yes, a turbo DOES push air into the engine. What did you think it did?
Any boost pressure at all will create more power, you simply give what the engine (or your wallet) will stand, although it's also dependent on how clever you are. There are many tricks you can use:
A careful remap
Efficient chargecooling
Higher octane fuel
Intelligent engine cooling
Water injection
It isn't what I think, it's what I know and the laws of Physics. A turbo compresses the air it does not push it into the engine, atmospheric pressure fills the cylinders, nothing else. The clue is in how turbo effect is measured; in bar or Psi, both being units of pressure.
It's always a dividing subject this. I'm going to give the engine and gearbox a good service then get a power run done before. Then again afterwards. Then we'll be able to put this one to bed and move on lol!
Got some goodies coming when postman pat drops them through the door.
Some nice gauges to measure the turbos independent oil feed pressure and temp.
A EGT gauge to monitor exhaust gas temps.
A DP Engineering wideband o2 sensor and afr gauge.
Rising rate fuel pressure regulator
And lots of exhaust bits and pieces.
You'll love my seperate turbo oil feed and return system. I could just use a scavenger pump like most. But where's the fun in that. Plus if I want to remove the turbo it's just a case of swapping the exhaust and putting the original one back on.
More pics today later today.
Got some goodies coming when postman pat drops them through the door.
Some nice gauges to measure the turbos independent oil feed pressure and temp.
A EGT gauge to monitor exhaust gas temps.
A DP Engineering wideband o2 sensor and afr gauge.
Rising rate fuel pressure regulator
And lots of exhaust bits and pieces.
You'll love my seperate turbo oil feed and return system. I could just use a scavenger pump like most. But where's the fun in that. Plus if I want to remove the turbo it's just a case of swapping the exhaust and putting the original one back on.
More pics today later today.
TooMany2cvs said:
Isn't a rear-mounted turbo going to be more than a little...
...
...
<waits for letter to arrive from engine to turbo>
...
...
<waits for letter of reply to arrive from turbo back to engine>
...
... bit laggy?
Here you go...
...
<waits for letter to arrive from engine to turbo>
...
...
<waits for letter of reply to arrive from turbo back to engine>
...
... bit laggy?
https://youtu.be/rdjh3EY6shU
When I put the system in the V8 coupe it will be on display in the rear. It's elaborate for the "wtf" factor.
Looking in the rear and seeing two turbos sat where rear passengers would sit with all shiny bits etc.
I guess it's like the folk who like to dress up audio systems and show that stuff off.
Obviously here in the lexus it's just a prototype.
I don't like how noisy those scavenge pumps are.
When researching I asked the manufacturer how long continuous run should be, they told me 30 minutes. They're designed to pump fuel or other thin liquids.
Companies have been bulk buying them and labeling them for "turbo scavenging" but unless your going to pay top dollar for a pump I'd avoid.
Although people do use them but they do fail it doesn't put people off buying the cheap ones.
Looking in the rear and seeing two turbos sat where rear passengers would sit with all shiny bits etc.
I guess it's like the folk who like to dress up audio systems and show that stuff off.
Obviously here in the lexus it's just a prototype.
I don't like how noisy those scavenge pumps are.
When researching I asked the manufacturer how long continuous run should be, they told me 30 minutes. They're designed to pump fuel or other thin liquids.
Companies have been bulk buying them and labeling them for "turbo scavenging" but unless your going to pay top dollar for a pump I'd avoid.
Although people do use them but they do fail it doesn't put people off buying the cheap ones.
Steve20vt said:
They de tuned it by half and dropped it in the big barges of the day like the crown before it ended up in the lexus.
The Crown never had the 1UZ, biggest engine you could get was the straight sixes 1JZ/2JZ before the switched to V6s and finally put the 1UR V8 in, but that didn't happen until 2008 with the 12th-gen model.The Crown Majesta DID have the 1UZ, but that was a bigger model than the Crown, and sat between it and the Celsior.
Gassing Station | Readers' Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff