Supercharged Honda Elise 135R
Discussion
Thanks for that, 4c looks great but was fairly panned by the press, I guess the Elise benchmark is fairly high, which along with an Exige V6 is it's only real competitor to my mind and a Honda SC Elise is another step beyond any factory Elise performance wise. I am sure yours would win comfortably in a drag race 
I did an MSV/Evo “How Fast?” day today at Bedford Autodrome with a couple of friends. We used the West circuit and with a small number of cars had an hour of open pit lane, followed by two flying hot laps each to set a time for their leaderboards. It's the first time I've been to Bedford and the second time I've had this car on track, so I was learning both the circuit and the car, but managed to just pip my friend's times in his Exige V6 Cup. I also got thoroughly trounced by Dan Webster in a 300hp NA Honda Elise S1 
The car was absolutely stellar. Fast yet playful yet waiting to bite your head off when you make a mistake; just how I like it!
The highlights are on YouTube!
The car was absolutely stellar. Fast yet playful yet waiting to bite your head off when you make a mistake; just how I like it!
The highlights are on YouTube!
That looked like fun and good to see you finding the limits of your car. You did well to pass the noise limits at Bedford, my car got thrown off at Snettertom due to drive by noise so I assumed no hope for me there.
Dan's cars look great and I assume being n/a a lot lighter than our sc cars, also problem with sc cars on track is keeping air intake temps down, power drops off after a few hard laps.
Sadly mine will be sold soon but keep the post coming please !
Dan's cars look great and I assume being n/a a lot lighter than our sc cars, also problem with sc cars on track is keeping air intake temps down, power drops off after a few hard laps.
Sadly mine will be sold soon but keep the post coming please !
Noise limits are very strict there. I passed the static test by virtue of the car not wanting to rev over 4,750 when stationary. I'm not sure if that's an intentional part of the ECU setup or something which needs looking at. I got a warning for noise as I was close to the drive-by limit, but wasn't black flagged. I suspect it's more induction noise than exhaust causing the problems with the SC cars.
Dan was in a customer's car. It will certainly be lighter than mine and makes great power and torque, apparently. Ultimately it's very tough to compare as our suspension and whatnot was all different too. Regardless, it was a blistering fast car and he was driving it well. There's a video of that car here.
Dan was in a customer's car. It will certainly be lighter than mine and makes great power and torque, apparently. Ultimately it's very tough to compare as our suspension and whatnot was all different too. Regardless, it was a blistering fast car and he was driving it well. There's a video of that car here.
Edited by jaik on Sunday 23 October 09:46
There was a good build thread on Seloc for Dan's customer car, it's a proper bit of kit, and he's pretty handy driving it.
Ref induction noise I changed my open K+N filter for an ITG stab 122 air filter and also covered inside the rear clam around the airbox area and the air filter itself with this stuff http://www.deadening.co.uk/products/silent-coat-no...
It has made a huge difference, in fact almost too much as now little Supercharger whine, but the upside is you can hear the engine more.
The exhaust on mine is repackable but the packing doesn't last long with the heat of the exhaust gases from an SC car. Best stuff for repacking is Acoustafil ZT1.
Ref induction noise I changed my open K+N filter for an ITG stab 122 air filter and also covered inside the rear clam around the airbox area and the air filter itself with this stuff http://www.deadening.co.uk/products/silent-coat-no...
It has made a huge difference, in fact almost too much as now little Supercharger whine, but the upside is you can hear the engine more.
The exhaust on mine is repackable but the packing doesn't last long with the heat of the exhaust gases from an SC car. Best stuff for repacking is Acoustafil ZT1.
Super car OP - really feeling that! (unsurprising given my penchant for over-engined compact MR cars
). Mine's something of a rust heap compared to your Hethelised weapon choice. How is it just mooching around / on longer trips? I've got a dull car but would like to be able to hit the continent as you have in any weekend special (not that I'm sufficiently endowed with sterling at this point in time!).
Nice work on the phone bracket - how does it affect radio navigation, or is that all via the phone itself now?
TheRocket said:
Sadly mine will be sold soon...
Say it ain't so! 
I bid £20.00
[Aware that I may appear to be rudely neglecting you messages, for which I humbly apologise (really not the case sir!). I plead the following in mitigation m'lud: (i) tax paying; (iii) overstuffed gmail account; and (iv) small claims fun and games; (ii) but my Whatsapp (other messenger apps available) has only just been rejuvenated - we need to catch up over a beverage.]
Back on topic, I'd love to see a back to back comparison of an S/C charge-cooled car against a similarly powered N/A car. Aware that they have different strengths and weaknesses aside from the obvious ones (e.g. extra torque but by extra weight and more parts to service / otherwise go wrong for the S/C?). I imagine you lose some of the VTEC induction roar but gain S/C whine. Horse for course I'd guess! but 200lb/ft in an S2 must make it feel like a 747 at full thrust - nose up, seat squab creased!
In day to day road driving the car behaves very well. Not obnoxiously loud, sensible gear ratios, tractable engine, temperatures always bang on… there's really not much different to a factory Elise in terms of compromises. It performs as well as or better than most standard cars at altitude, too. The early S2 Elise heating/ventilation is utter w
k, though.
The phone bracket makes the rightmost buttons ever so slightly more tricky to get to, but all I ever use is the volume dial and the "iPod" source button. I never bother with the radio and don't even know if it works or not.
I was at Bedford Autodrome last weekend. Dan Webster was in a 300hp NA S1 and set a faster lap than me (obviously with the usual caveats of different drivers, track knowledge etc etc). The weight advantage of the NA would give it the edge if all else was equal; built right they have bags of torque. The advantage of the SC in my mind is that if something does let go it's generally cheaper to fix; stock rebuild vs lots of expensive fancy bits. As you say, the noise is quite different and a matter of taste, I find the SC whine intoxicating.
It does a lovely little squat when you push the fun pedal… https://youtu.be/x_URua53ngY
k, though.The phone bracket makes the rightmost buttons ever so slightly more tricky to get to, but all I ever use is the volume dial and the "iPod" source button. I never bother with the radio and don't even know if it works or not.
I was at Bedford Autodrome last weekend. Dan Webster was in a 300hp NA S1 and set a faster lap than me (obviously with the usual caveats of different drivers, track knowledge etc etc). The weight advantage of the NA would give it the edge if all else was equal; built right they have bags of torque. The advantage of the SC in my mind is that if something does let go it's generally cheaper to fix; stock rebuild vs lots of expensive fancy bits. As you say, the noise is quite different and a matter of taste, I find the SC whine intoxicating.
It does a lovely little squat when you push the fun pedal… https://youtu.be/x_URua53ngY
Edited by jaik on Friday 28th October 19:16
I'm not 100% on the ride height, I'll try and check later. It's a nice height, looks right but gets over speed bumps etc without any trouble or silly diagonal approach angles.
It's running the "waspy" geometry which I believe is 340R road settings with a fraction more toe out at the front. I've got the LSS height adjustable dampers that came standard on the 135R, so the spring rates are probably a bit soft compared to even most road setups people are running with Nitrons etc.
Handling wise it's superb in the dry, with bags of feedback and bags of grip. When it does let go you have to be quick to catch it (see my video from Bedford above) but it feels happy being thrown about a bit or doing fast, clean laps. I did a day at Oulton Park yesterday which started off very wet, and the setup felt very compromised. All the feel and progression disappeared and it was either gripping or trying to kill you with little room in between. On the road you can basically be a total pillock in the dry and the car will cope fine, just make sure you give it some respect in the wet, much like any Elise/Exige.
It's running the "waspy" geometry which I believe is 340R road settings with a fraction more toe out at the front. I've got the LSS height adjustable dampers that came standard on the 135R, so the spring rates are probably a bit soft compared to even most road setups people are running with Nitrons etc.
Handling wise it's superb in the dry, with bags of feedback and bags of grip. When it does let go you have to be quick to catch it (see my video from Bedford above) but it feels happy being thrown about a bit or doing fast, clean laps. I did a day at Oulton Park yesterday which started off very wet, and the setup felt very compromised. All the feel and progression disappeared and it was either gripping or trying to kill you with little room in between. On the road you can basically be a total pillock in the dry and the car will cope fine, just make sure you give it some respect in the wet, much like any Elise/Exige.
It's been a while since I posted an update and a few things have happened in the meantime…
I found a pair of unused Tillett B5 seats for sale for a (relatively) low price, so I snapped them up. For something that's supposedly a bolt-in swap and was designed for the car, they're an absolute tt to install! However, I now sit lower at more of an angle, have vastly superior lateral support and have harness slots. They're not a cheap upgrade, but the difference compared to the standard seats is night and day.
At the same time in October, I ordered a driver's side 4-point Schroth Profi-II ASM harness. It's designed for the Elise/Exige platform so you can mount the lap straps to the same points as the 3-point belt, and still keep the 3-point belt for when you want to do road-driving things like check your blind spot or lean forward at junctions. Due to issues on Schroth's side it took until March to arrive, so my excitement had dwindled somewhat, but it's been another transformative upgrade when it comes to the feel and control of the car. I really need to get a track day booked!
Some other sundry bits of maintenance:
I found a pair of unused Tillett B5 seats for sale for a (relatively) low price, so I snapped them up. For something that's supposedly a bolt-in swap and was designed for the car, they're an absolute t
t to install! However, I now sit lower at more of an angle, have vastly superior lateral support and have harness slots. They're not a cheap upgrade, but the difference compared to the standard seats is night and day.At the same time in October, I ordered a driver's side 4-point Schroth Profi-II ASM harness. It's designed for the Elise/Exige platform so you can mount the lap straps to the same points as the 3-point belt, and still keep the 3-point belt for when you want to do road-driving things like check your blind spot or lean forward at junctions. Due to issues on Schroth's side it took until March to arrive, so my excitement had dwindled somewhat, but it's been another transformative upgrade when it comes to the feel and control of the car. I really need to get a track day booked!
Some other sundry bits of maintenance:
- Replaced front brake pads with another set of Pagid RS42, as they were on their last legs. Also have a fresh set ready to go on the rear shortly.
- The rear R888s are just about dead. I'm umming and ahhing whether to switch to AD08Rs given how I use the car and the memory of a could of particularly miserably wet weather drives last year.
- Replaced both drop links as one had a fair bit of play in it.
- Had a new sump plug temperature sensor mount made on the advice of Oakmere, as the old one wasn't suitable and was liable to come loose.
- Annual service.
- Replaced the headlight bulbs with the finest halogens Philips can muster, to slightly improve the st headlights. Also replaced the front indicator bulbs with silver ones because I'm a tart.
- Replaced the gigantic Lotus rear view mirror with a smaller one from a Matiz. There's a page on the SELOC wiki about this, but it's a 5-minute swap as they use the same size ball joint.
Well it's probably worth an update almost a year on!
I fitted Quantum single-adjustable coilovers last year which managed to improve the ride and handling both on the road and on track. The springs are roughly 50% stiffer than on the stock Bilsteins (they're still specced for mainly road use), but the damping is so much better it's more comfortable and less skittish over broken ground than before. Win, win, win, and money well spent.
Last month I fitted a tiny LiFePO4 battery. It was only £60 and weighs a faintly ludicrous 812g, yet starts the car like the stock battery. I ended up spending a day designing and fabricating a bracket from aluminium sheet to mount the thing and get rid of the big steel elephant that is the standard tray, but all in it saved over 10kg high up, right at the back of the car.
Finally last week, after a three and a half month wait since ordering them, I got a set of Team Dynamics Pro Forged Superlight wheels fitted. These are the lightest available in stock sizes and offsets and are the same ones fitted to the current Elise Cup models. The weight saving has made a negligible but noticeable difference, but surprisingly changing from black, multi-spoke wheels to slightly different black, multi-spoke wheels has really refreshed the look of the car!
Aside from some play developing in the rear toe link inner ball joints which were easily replaced once I tracked down the right size and fitting, the car's behaved perfectly.
I fitted Quantum single-adjustable coilovers last year which managed to improve the ride and handling both on the road and on track. The springs are roughly 50% stiffer than on the stock Bilsteins (they're still specced for mainly road use), but the damping is so much better it's more comfortable and less skittish over broken ground than before. Win, win, win, and money well spent.
Last month I fitted a tiny LiFePO4 battery. It was only £60 and weighs a faintly ludicrous 812g, yet starts the car like the stock battery. I ended up spending a day designing and fabricating a bracket from aluminium sheet to mount the thing and get rid of the big steel elephant that is the standard tray, but all in it saved over 10kg high up, right at the back of the car.
Finally last week, after a three and a half month wait since ordering them, I got a set of Team Dynamics Pro Forged Superlight wheels fitted. These are the lightest available in stock sizes and offsets and are the same ones fitted to the current Elise Cup models. The weight saving has made a negligible but noticeable difference, but surprisingly changing from black, multi-spoke wheels to slightly different black, multi-spoke wheels has really refreshed the look of the car!
Aside from some play developing in the rear toe link inner ball joints which were easily replaced once I tracked down the right size and fitting, the car's behaved perfectly.
I took the car for its first sprint today; round 2 of the Javelin Sprint Series at Blyton Park. I came second in class, beaten by an Exige 350 Sport. If I was running track rubber I could have been in with a shout of snatching first, but I'm happy that I chipped three seconds off my lap time through the day to get a 1:11.33. The jump from trackdays to competition is the same as from road driving to trackdays, in terms of what you learn and what you realise the car can do. The LSD really earned its keep today!
Here's my best run: https://youtu.be/2AWVYKopiu4
Here's my best run: https://youtu.be/2AWVYKopiu4
Jaik, how did your SC compare to the Honda, in terms of refinement and gearing?
The reason I ask is, I've got a Elise 135, but it's my 3rd Lotus and it's not quite got enough above 50mph - I do quite of a bit of A-road so mid-range is important and mine's doing over 3krpm@60mph which makes progress at higher speeds more tiring...the car feels strained maintaining 60-70mph with the rattles and drones.
I'm thinking about either an SC or Honda, I'd be interested how you found them both to be when covering longer distances !
Awesome Lotus, bet its a hoot to drive. In my head i think id have ended up with something like this if i wasnt so obsessed with old cars instead.
The euro trips looked great too, we are doing one later in the year but i think i'll mainly be passenger in a friends car, mine wont be ready sadly!
The euro trips looked great too, we are doing one later in the year but i think i'll mainly be passenger in a friends car, mine wont be ready sadly!
MattyB_ said:
Jaik, how did your SC compare to the Honda, in terms of refinement and gearing?
To be honest, it feels like comparing apples to oranges. The SC was a standard 2008 model with the touring pack and suchlike, so it was (relatively) very serene and comfortable. This one has a few rattles and is generally a bit wearing over long distances, I wouldn't fancy dallying it, but with some sound deadening and carpets it might be a much closer comparison. The gearing is similar from what I remember, 60mph at the top of 2nd and in the 3-4krpm range at a motorway cruise, though bear in mind my current car has a slightly longer final drive fitted.In terms of power and performance, it's not even worth comparing them, the supercharged K20 is in another league to the 2ZZ. I've not driven an N/A Honda-powered Lotus, but I suspect it would be a subjectively nicer setup than the Elise SC in my opinion.
-Neil- said:
Any more details on the battery?
Does it need a special charger and keeping on a charger?
The battery is a JMT YTX14H-FP. To be honest, I was expecting it to struggle and to have to go for something beefier, but so far so good. The capacity is much lower than the standard battery, so with the Elise's power-hungry alarm/immobiliser it won't last a week if you just leave it. I disconnect it when I put the car back in the garage as the car doesn't get taken out that regularly, but I always put the stock battery on a trickle charger for the same reason anyway, so it's no less convenient for me.Does it need a special charger and keeping on a charger?
You can charge the battery from most standard car chargers if it's low (it'll go from basically dead to able to start the car in about 10 minutes), but trickle chargers that aren't designed for lithium batteries will kill it. It's worth reading the instructions with the battery and checking the charger carefully.
I'll get some pics up soon.
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