***The Official Rally Germany Thread***

***The Official Rally Germany Thread***

Author
Discussion

Pwig

Original Poster:

11,956 posts

269 months

Thursday 18th August 2016
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VW Fastest in Shakedown, do we think Ogier will win one at last? smile

GravelBen

15,654 posts

229 months

Friday 19th August 2016
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Hard to say really - Ogier will have a point to prove but that might put extra pressure on himself and he doesn't always do that well with pressure. Doesn't have a great record in Germany either, won it last year but crashed out in 2013 and 2014.

Might depend on the weather, if it rains he'll be taking cuts for Africa to drag mud onto the road for the cars behind but if its dry there will be less of a road position advantage.

Sordo was looking quick at shakedown too, seems to have recovered from his recent injury.

Pwig

Original Poster:

11,956 posts

269 months

Friday 19th August 2016
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Jari Matti is out already with gearbox issues! He either has bad luck or no luck!

AdamST

62 posts

162 months

Friday 19th August 2016
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Camilli off the road also

GravelBen

15,654 posts

229 months

Friday 19th August 2016
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Plenty of carnage in WRC2 already too. Fair bit of mud by the sound of it.

Slippydiff

14,742 posts

222 months

Friday 19th August 2016
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Can't believe it's a year since I was spectating there frown
Ogier has something to prove, my guess is he'll take the win. Got to feel for JML.

ArnageWRC

2,050 posts

158 months

Friday 19th August 2016
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Ogier with an overshoot on early in stage2 - but I'm sure he'll regain his composure. Latvala out with possible gearbox issues...and Camilli proving he was promoted to a full WRCar before he was ready.

Finally, just look at the itinerary for Day 1; ridiculous. Two 20km+ stages then a 4 hour gap, and the same two stages repeated - and a short stage to follow.

And we're getting only the one live TV stage; the Powerstage on Sunday......c'mon it's 2016 - this is simply not good enough.

Allyc85

7,225 posts

185 months

Saturday 20th August 2016
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Standard Ogier, smashing the field on the long stage!

GravelBen

15,654 posts

229 months

Saturday 20th August 2016
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Lefebvre smashing his car big time by the sound of it!

Allyc85

7,225 posts

185 months

Saturday 20th August 2016
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Had to be cut from the car. Both have been taken to hospital but said to be conscious.

RyanTank

2,850 posts

153 months

Saturday 20th August 2016
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SS10 cancelled after Lefebvre's crash. medical are at the incident. Hope both are ok.
WRC.COM said:
Stage stopped and competitors are making their way back to Trier for the midpoint service. Stewards will award notional times for drivers that didn't complete the stage
Have WRCLive on here in work so listening to the end of stage comments. Andreas saying Ogier is pulling lots of crap out on the stage with his cuts, and every driver after that saying how much dirtier its getting each time.
It got me thinking how hypocritical Ogier is when he complains about being 1st on the road for gravel. he's not happy that he has to sweep but perfectly happy to go first on tarmac and disadvantage everyone else. He's taking cuts slightly deeper than others by the sounds of it too to dirty up more stage.
He made similar tactics on the Monte by dragging snow onto the stage at quite a few corners.


I wonder now that Jost Capito is actually leaving how much more complaining Ogier will be able to do, its almost like the Capito encourages him to whinge, and if Seb isn't then Jost is coming out with some bullst reason why the championship is being devalued because someone drove better than his boys :rolleys:

Allyc85

7,225 posts

185 months

Saturday 20th August 2016
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Internal injuries and fractured bones but nothing life threatening. Amazing when you see the car!


rallycross

12,744 posts

236 months

Saturday 20th August 2016
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Nasty looking damage did they hit one of those horrible heinkelsteins? Not sure if they still use stage with those things bad idea as potentially lethal if hit by a rally car at the wrong angle .

GravelBen

15,654 posts

229 months

Sunday 21st August 2016
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rallycross said:
Nasty looking damage did they hit one of those horrible heinkelsteins? Not sure if they still use stage with those things bad idea as potentially lethal if hit by a rally car at the wrong angle .
Solberg had a huge crash into a hinkelstein in 2003(I think) and was lucky to walk away. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRVshT38kyo

It looked like Lefebvre clipped a few of them at high speed, then collected a tree afterwards which ripped the engine out of the car. Massive impact.

Edited by GravelBen on Sunday 21st August 03:29

GravelBen

15,654 posts

229 months

Sunday 21st August 2016
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RyanTank said:
It got me thinking how hypocritical Ogier is when he complains about being 1st on the road for gravel. he's not happy that he has to sweep but perfectly happy to go first on tarmac and disadvantage everyone else. He's taking cuts slightly deeper than others by the sounds of it too to dirty up more stage.
He made similar tactics on the Monte by dragging snow onto the stage at quite a few corners.
yes

Couldn't agree more.

Edited by GravelBen on Sunday 21st August 03:24

Slippydiff

14,742 posts

222 months

Monday 22nd August 2016
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GravelBen said:
RyanTank said:
It got me thinking how hypocritical Ogier is when he complains about being 1st on the road for gravel. he's not happy that he has to sweep but perfectly happy to go first on tarmac and disadvantage everyone else. He's taking cuts slightly deeper than others by the sounds of it too to dirty up more stage.
He made similar tactics on the Monte by dragging snow onto the stage at quite a few corners.
yes

Couldn't agree more.
Ok, firstly I have to admit I'm somewhat of an Ogier fanboy biggrin but I don't really get this hatred for SO.
Surely if he's first on the road on Tarmac it's his prerogative to take whatever lines he wants to ?

If the organisers decide to level the playing field and stick straw bales on every corner to preclude ANY driver cutting the corners it would remove the alleged advantage he gains by taking big cuts, but they haven't/don't, so all he's doing is using every inch of the road (and then some) to maximise his advantage.
I don't see the problem in that, on the contrary, I see it as his payback for having to sweep the roads on the loose surface events. That's not so much hypocrisy as using his position of first on the road to his advantage.

Of course if the WRC were introduce a better balance between Tarmac and loose surface events, his perceived advantage would be greater, but as the championship stands, he only gets that "benefit" on what ? three rounds (Monte, Germany and Corsica) ?

I don't think he's gaining the "massive" advantage you guys seem to think he is (clearly AM would complain bitterly, he's slower in the same car), all the moreso as the WRC is now biased more heavily in favour of loose surface events.

Furthermore I remember watching a stage in Corsica back in 2007. We arrived before the cars were due and spectated on a fast downhill kink. Prior to the first car through (though after the various 0/00/000 safety cars had been through the stage) the stage surface was perfectly clean.
After Loeb came through and took a simply crazy cut to straightline the kink as best he could, the surface was awash with soil, stones and rocks. A bit like this ....



Which leads me to believe t'was ever thus, and that Ogiers competitors have to resort to anything and everything they can in the way of excuses after they've been soundly thrashed by SO on numerous occasions smile





Edited by Slippydiff on Monday 22 August 00:27

Slippydiff

14,742 posts

222 months

Monday 22nd August 2016
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GravelBen said:
rallycross said:
Nasty looking damage did they hit one of those horrible heinkelsteins? Not sure if they still use stage with those things bad idea as potentially lethal if hit by a rally car at the wrong angle .
Solberg had a huge crash into a hinkelstein in 2003(I think) and was lucky to walk away. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRVshT38kyo

It looked like Lefebvre clipped a few of them at high speed, then collected a tree afterwards which ripped the engine out of the car. Massive impact.
Solberg was fine, Mills however had neck/back injuries that weren't publicised at the time, he was however VERY lucky not to have received far more serious injuries or worse .....

I'd imagine Lefebre and his navigator have some pretty nasty foot/ankle or lower leg injuries. It's possibly time for the hinklesteins to be protected by straw bales or similar.
Next years cars will be faster still, and when/if they get away from the drivers in the military stages, the results of an altercation with a hinklestein won't be pretty.

GravelBen

15,654 posts

229 months

Monday 22nd August 2016
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Slippydiff said:
Ok, firstly I have to admit I'm somewhat of an Ogier fanboy biggrin but I don't really get this hatred for SO.
Its not hatred and its not about his driving (I don't think anyone is disputing that he's still the benchmark at the moment) - I'm just sick of his repetitive whinging, negative attitude, and blaming everything except his driving when he doesn't win.

Edited by GravelBen on Monday 22 August 09:26

GravelBen

15,654 posts

229 months

Monday 22nd August 2016
quotequote all
Slippydiff said:
Solberg was fine, Mills however had neck/back injuries that weren't publicised at the time, he was however VERY lucky not to have received far more serious injuries or worse .....

I'd imagine Lefebre and his navigator have some pretty nasty foot/ankle or lower leg injuries. It's possibly time for the hinklesteins to be protected by straw bales or similar.
Next years cars will be faster still, and when/if they get away from the drivers in the military stages, the results of an altercation with a hinklestein won't be pretty.
Ah, I didn't realise Mills had worse injuries from that one but I guess its not a surprise when you look at the car afterwards.

Gabin Moreau's post about his injuries on farcebook:

Gabin said:
Hello friends. Thank you all for your messages, all this is really heartwarming and makes you want to fight to come back even stronger. I am not able to walk at the moment ... I have a broken left foot and fractured right tibia. My left hand is broken, have displaced collarbone and a cracked vertebra. In short .... despite all this. I do not lose my will to come back and it is thanks to you.

The impact was very violent and the minutes that followed ... felt extremely long. It was impossible to get out of the car. Eric and Benjamin arrived first on the scene. Thanks to all the help on the scene, you guys! The organizers and rescue teams have done an outstanding job as well and we have been supported. Unfortunately, I did not get much news from Steph who is in another hospital 130km

Thank you a thousand times to you all for your support! See you soon!
You might be right about protecting the hinklesteins with the higher speeds next year but I guess they're not really any worse than trees or various other roadside objects, where do you draw the line? There is always going to be some risk involved.

RyanTank

2,850 posts

153 months

Monday 22nd August 2016
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Its not that I dislike Ogier. I think its more that I'm fed up with hearing the same old drivel from him and Jost Capito.
Yes they run first on the road, because he's the fastest driver out there in the fastest cars in the series. It's a complaint that has been around since the rule change cam in. Loeb and Citroen complained about it for a while but eventually gave up after it made no difference. Loeb just let the driving do the talking, and showed that he could still win from the front on many occasions.
They changed the rules when it was fastest driver of the day started 1st the following day, and that gave us drivers slowing to a crawl just before the flying finish.
I thought shakedown qualifying worked, I know many hated it for its tintop style formula. but it meant there was some dramatic action right from shakedown - want the best road position, hammer it round the shakedown! simple really.

the old top 10 reversed format worked fairly well too for the time it lasted, but if it was re introduced I'm sure VW would find a fault in it.


I see your point about dragging crap into the road to handicap the following cars. I guess I might have got a little caught up in all the chatter about it on social media and wrclive boxedin


Regarding the hinkelsteins, the only answer to eradicate the danger to them is to stop using the Baumholder ranges, but that would cost the rally a lot of stage km's as they'd have to close more roads to hold stages.
There was a similar concern with using the Epynt here in the UK with sections of stages run on narrow greasy roads with large culverts on various parts. a car went off badly into one one year and caused quite a lot of damage. many drivers complained about the dangers of these culverts. the next event didn't include these roads while things were still being looked at about the accident and the club received a load of backlash for not putting enough miles on for the following event.
the club couldn't win it seemed.

The issue I think with the hinkelsteins is the proximity to the road leaving minimum room for error. most gravel stages have some sort of banking or ditch a car can have minor off on and get away with, on panzerplatte if you get a little squirm and lose the back then its likely to connect with a hinkelstein.
We've been very lucky all these years with cars going off on the ranges, Petter's off being vary very close to a fatality, however we must remember that trees can be just as solid as tank stoppers.
Margam park on the 18th of September 2005 sadly proved that frown