Would this work as a race series?

[Furyblade_Lee]

Been thinking about what could create a buzz in club racing, be affordable and good for the crowds.
How about, and in the spirit of 750 MC Stock Hatch, a series mimmicking the old Supertouring BTCC era using 2.0 engines but tuning strictly limited? Imagine a grid of early Modeos, Cavaleirs, Lagunas, Primeras, Volvos, Alfa 155s, BMWs, A4s, 405s, 19 16vs, Camrys etc. Running 18" wheels and no aero? Maybe 200bhp proven BHP?

I'd pay to watch it. Would it work?

[Output Flange]

Doubt it. The people who really want to see those cars run will go to the events they're at. Other people will just see old, slow cars going round.

Plus, you'll struggle to find many examples of some of those cars for sale these days.

[Drumroll]

There is already super touring races that cater for "heyday" of touring car racing.

http://www.btcccrazy.co.uk/btcc/five-event-calenda...

[NJH]

Just my opinion but Max5 created a hell of a buzz several to 10 years back. Pretty obvious statement to make perhaps but I bet there are many people out there looking to do something similar again, perhaps with the GT86 eventually coming down in secondhand price. I bet again that there are loads of people out there already looking at that potential, the only thing that would wreck it happening sadly is fragmentation. This happened with my own car, the Porsche 944. In the states they have the enormously successful 944spec, the reason why a similar thing never happened here is the cars moved around too many times ultimately leading to perhaps the 30 to 40 cars out there spread around several non-type specific series/championship or sat in peoples garages.

[Tanuki]

Such a club level series already exists: http://classictouringcars.com/

[Bertrum]

It needs to be something people want to race.

The MX5 is hugely popular as there are so many around and its a nice simple base.

They tried to launch an RX8 champ which in theory is a great idea, but the engines put people off plus an MX5 is virtually the same so whats the point.

There is already a GT86 in development.

BMW 330ci is another already being developed.

As is the Ford Puma series.

Your idea in principle is good, but I can't see many people getting excited about racing a pretty standard Laguna. Besides if that was popular the Vectra cup would still be going.

[ribiero]

Bertrum said:

It needs to be something people want to race.

The MX5 is hugely popular as there are so many around and its a nice simple base.

They tried to launch an RX8 champ which in theory is a great idea, but the engines put people off plus an MX5 is virtually the same so whats the point.

There is already a GT86 in development.

BMW 330ci is another already being developed.

As is the Ford Puma series.

Your idea in principle is good, but I can't see many people getting excited about racing a pretty standard Laguna. Besides if that was popular the Vectra cup would still be going.

Will club racing become over saturated with single make production car grids?

The mx5's and the mr2's (prolly golf's too) tapped into the budget production vein at the right time, but I cant help but feel it's turned into a parts/car shifting business with every autosport show a new car on display "15 sold for the grid so far.. etc" then they're bunged into the allcomers at 750mc because only a handful ever came through.

750's done fantastic from it and it show's one part of motorsport is booming at the minute, but in last 18months 330i series announced by the guys that bought you compact cup and the m3cup announced by the guys that bought you the Civic cup at the start of the year? Rogue the guys that take car transporters full of Mr2's to circuits building the gt86 for I presume a gt86 cup?

It's all progress right?

[Drumroll]

Most cars can now race in one series or another, so I don't really see the need for any more series. In fact I would like to see less championships. The days of manufactures backing a series have all but gone.

Too many people think they have the idea for the best championship in the UK and unfortunately they often fail. Just look at what happened to the BRSCC MX5 championship a few years ago.

Britcar now struggles to get entries. I could go on.

The OP has an idea, but there are already several series that already cater for those cars, entry isn't brilliant though.

[NJH]

ribiero said:

Will club racing become over saturated with single make production car grids?

The mx5's and the mr2's (prolly golf's too) tapped into the budget production vein at the right time, but I cant help but feel it's turned into a parts/car shifting business with every autosport show a new car on display "15 sold for the grid so far.. etc" then they're bunged into the allcomers at 750mc because only a handful ever came through.

750's done fantastic from it and it show's one part of motorsport is booming at the minute, but in last 18months 330i series announced by the guys that bought you compact cup and the m3cup announced by the guys that bought you the Civic cup at the start of the year? Rogue the guys that take car transporters full of Mr2's to circuits building the gt86 for I presume a gt86 cup?

It's all progress right?

I agree that there are always preparer business that want to build their own series/championship, however one has to be fair, when you look at the time effort and money many of these people sink into racing its not unreasonable to say that club level motorsport in the UK has been hugely dependent on such outfits for many years. Experienced wise organisers realise this too, get a couple of established preparer outfits on side and you can build a series, piss them all off and your screwed as they will take their own cars and all their associated drivers/friends elsewhere.

The side to this I don't like so much is when a series starts up and the technical rules are too narrowly related to a particular preparer/retailer business as this puts other such businesses off getting involved. However as said above if you are such a business are you really going to sink all your own time and money into something, then set the regs to allow all your competitors to then come in and compete against you for free? Its a difficult circle to square for sure.

[NJH]

Drumroll said:

Most cars can now race in one series or another, so I don't really see the need for any more series. In fact I would like to see less championships.

Disagree. There is one very simple reason why more series of a single make or type are a good thing. Look at anything for example that is RWD and allows cars from the past couple to 3 decades to compete, and is multi-marque in nature. They let the M3s in with 400+ Bhp and 1100kg and it kills it for everyone else. If I was building a FWD 2 litre turbo race car for a fairly open class as an example I would probably choose one of the VAG cars, Audi TT, Scirroco that sort of thing purely because it is well known the mechanicals can take being tuned to crazy levels and despite anything to do with the chassis monster power will trump everything else (Castle Combe championship seems to prove this point). These are always the problems with the plethora of multi-marque series out there, my own car as an example (944) is one of the most robust and race ready production cars ever made, they definitely should be raced but they are totally destroyed by cars with much more power or much less weight, RX8 and GT86 will be much the same.

[Drumroll]

So your car can't win, so you want more championships so you have a chance to win. This what has happened time and time again. all it does is dilute existing championships. Not saying everything is rosy, but more championships is not the way. More structure for existing championships may well help. But here is something perhaps a bit novel idea build a car that fits in with an existing championship.

[NJH]

Sorry you are just not getting it. In the US they have the hugely successful spec944, much like an MX-5 championship but slightly better performance for a bit more running cost. Its simple really what I am saying is there are loads of cars that can make really great handling, robust and fun race cars but they don't work in a competitive environment if you end up racing against someone with 2x the power. This will be exactly the same issue for the GT86. I am sure it will make for a wonderful race car but if they end up mixed in with lots of other different cars anyone racing one will be forced to either a) Spend big money on wild tuning (completely at odds with the ethos of the car) or b) accept being soundly beaten all the time. This is the reality unfortunately and saying we should all just build M3 race cars or a.n.other easy multi marque/type winner is frankly not a serious answer to the future of the sport.

Frankly there are far to many similarly structured multi-marque/multi-type series at the moment all chasing after the same competitors IMHO.