Minardi PS04B - A Season In BOSS GP (Photo Heavy!)
Discussion
Trexthedinosaur said:
Firstly, this is truly interesting, I was not even aware that this type of racing existed.
Many questions;
I assume at a qualified although Amateur level? Or?
What is the appx cost of running one of these for a season, I assume you all work for the fun of it / as a hobby rather than a paid team?
Did you all buy the car together as a team or is it one persons from a collection or?
what else were you racing against, all the same era F1 cars?
And most importantly, are you planning to do it again?
Professional race team, all ex F1, this is our job. You can't really run one of these cars as an "amatuer" due to the complexity of it and that an F1 of this era is nothing like anything else. Unless you have worked with them previously it's extremely difficult to gain the knowledge required to run one safely and effectively. Several ex F1 drivers have also raced in BOSS and several more are involved in some way shape or form usually coaching younger drivers who are racing in BOSS for merit towards a super licence test or similar. It's a competitive series and the fastest championship in Europe outside of F1. Many questions;
I assume at a qualified although Amateur level? Or?
What is the appx cost of running one of these for a season, I assume you all work for the fun of it / as a hobby rather than a paid team?
Did you all buy the car together as a team or is it one persons from a collection or?
what else were you racing against, all the same era F1 cars?
And most importantly, are you planning to do it again?
Budgets are whatever is available, much like F1 back in the day
Generally in BOSS the cars are either driver owned, on lease from the original team or sold as part of an agreement between the original team and an individual for use in BOSS. It's actually one of the most difficult aspects of things to be honest as many teams will sell a car but most will not allow for it to be used in competition.
This season we have been up against Jaguar R5, Toro Rosso STR1, Benetton B197, Benetton B199 along with various ex Superleague, Champ Car, GP2 etc. The current GP2 cars are pretty close to the 10 year old F1s due to the level of aero development they have and most of the cars within BOSS are not "standard" having been developed to race in BOSS.
Bit of video from the weekend just gone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Fyaq5QsV3M We were lucky the STR1 was out or we'd have been 2nd.
An excellent read.
I have a few questions if you don't mind.
If you have time, could you elaborate on what was 'ahead of its time' in relation to the grid back in 2004? Minardi clearly had a meagre budget in comparison to the leading teams but i'd love to hear any anecdotal evidence you may have?!
How easy is it to get hold of the original data etc so you can compare how the car is running now to back when it was new?
Do you ever approach the original drivers and get data from them, or would that be totally unfeasible?
Enjoyed the post, thanks for putting it up.
I have a few questions if you don't mind.
If you have time, could you elaborate on what was 'ahead of its time' in relation to the grid back in 2004? Minardi clearly had a meagre budget in comparison to the leading teams but i'd love to hear any anecdotal evidence you may have?!
How easy is it to get hold of the original data etc so you can compare how the car is running now to back when it was new?
Do you ever approach the original drivers and get data from them, or would that be totally unfeasible?
Enjoyed the post, thanks for putting it up.
rpla102 said:
If you have time, could you elaborate on what was 'ahead of its time' in relation to the grid back in 2004? Minardi clearly had a meagre budget in comparison to the leading teams but i'd love to hear any anecdotal evidence you may have?!
- Minardi had rapid cast Ti uprights in 1999, Jaguar were still on fabricated Ti in 2002- Minardi had torsion bar front and rear springs in 1999, it took until 2007 for the last of the other teams to go to torsion bars!
- Minardi had a rapid cast Ti gearbox during the closing stages of 2000 and ran rapid cast Ti gearboxes from that point on. Ferrari were fabricating their casing in 2001. A 2004/2005 Minardi box looks a lot more like a 2012/2013 front runners gearbox than a mid 2000's design.
- In 2000 Ferrari spent a huge amount of money developing pressure sensors in the plank to calculate wear rates and contact time. Minardi did the same thing with a £20 thermocouple.
- Minardi had a hydraulic brake bias adjuster in 2002, five years later some teams were still running a cable.
- In 2002 Minardi had rotaries for engine braking, traction control, engine mode and diff mode on the steering wheel. It would take a further two years for every car on the grid to get to this point.
- Minardi ran FRICS in 1993.
- Minardi ran pull rod front suspension in 2001.
- Minardi ran a blown diffuser in the later stages of 2001.
Etc. Etc.
rpla102 said:
How easy is it to get hold of the original data etc so you can compare how the car is running now to back when it was new?
Do you ever approach the original drivers and get data from them, or would that be totally unfeasible?
Enjoyed the post, thanks for putting it up.
Generally it's not possible beyond base line lap times etc. from circuits which may now be different. This is part of the challenge really as we have to develop methods to run these cars again from scratch. We are in contact with most of the original drivers for the cars we look after but generally speaking there is only so much they can do to help as 99% of setup work was managed by the engineers on the car and at factory. The original drivers are good for checking "if it always did that" with though Do you ever approach the original drivers and get data from them, or would that be totally unfeasible?
Enjoyed the post, thanks for putting it up.
Poppopbangbang - Thanks for going into that, love that sort of technical knowledge! Did the Toro Rosso team keep on the engineering staff that developed the technologies you mentioned in the last post or did they all branch off from the team and join competitors?
Please continue to post your insight, i for one find it fascinating.
Please continue to post your insight, i for one find it fascinating.
I'm not an F1 fan but I enjoyed the read! Thanks!
Obviously not being an F1 fan I don't know much, if anything about the engines. What is the rev ceiling on one of these? Also how many hours of running/racing time before a major rebuild is required?
Also you spoke about increasing the revs at imola. How does that effect the life span of the engine/gearbox?
Fascinating read!
Obviously not being an F1 fan I don't know much, if anything about the engines. What is the rev ceiling on one of these? Also how many hours of running/racing time before a major rebuild is required?
Also you spoke about increasing the revs at imola. How does that effect the life span of the engine/gearbox?
Fascinating read!
Edited by AdamIndy on Tuesday 11th October 20:31
AdamIndy said:
I'm not an F1 fan but I enjoyed the read! Thanks!
Obviously not being an F1 fan I don't know much, if anything about the engines. What is the rev ceiling on one of these? Also how many hours of running/racing time before a major rebuild is required?
Also you spoke about increasing the revs at imola. How does that effect the life span of the engine/gearbox?
Fascinating read!
The CKs we run in the Minardis are on 18K RPM limits. Generally we'll run a bit less than that in a race. We work on KMs rather than hours, the engines were essentially single use items back in the day and we run to 400KM before inspection and expect 800KM between rebuilds. They make around 860bhp which isn't bad for a 3 litre naturally aspirated motor! Obviously not being an F1 fan I don't know much, if anything about the engines. What is the rev ceiling on one of these? Also how many hours of running/racing time before a major rebuild is required?
Also you spoke about increasing the revs at imola. How does that effect the life span of the engine/gearbox?
Fascinating read!
The gearbox is again single use. It is stripped and inspected after each run with any wearing parts replaced and rebuilt between each race weekend.
Items like uprights, clutches, fuel system, steering racks, brake calipers etc. are stripped and rebuilt between each race weekend. There is very little on the cars which goes twice without heavy inspection.
Thanks so much for posting. Been loosely following the Boss championship all season where possible (on Facebook/YouTube mainly) - love to see (and hear) the V10 cars again.
Good to see Tarso Marques (one time Minardi team mate of Fernando Alonso) racing - and winning - in one of the cars at Imola last weekend. Maybe he'll be back next year?
Would really love to see a few more F1 cars from the same period taking part - do you know if anyone is planning to run anything different for next season?
I'd love to see a race in the UK, and also for there to be some TV coverage of the races. It could develop in to an alternative championship for those bored of current F1. Imagine a full grid of mid-2000s F1 cars
Good to see Tarso Marques (one time Minardi team mate of Fernando Alonso) racing - and winning - in one of the cars at Imola last weekend. Maybe he'll be back next year?
Would really love to see a few more F1 cars from the same period taking part - do you know if anyone is planning to run anything different for next season?
I'd love to see a race in the UK, and also for there to be some TV coverage of the races. It could develop in to an alternative championship for those bored of current F1. Imagine a full grid of mid-2000s F1 cars
poppopbangbang said:
The CKs we run in the Minardis are on 18K RPM limits. Generally we'll run a bit less than that in a race. We work on KMs rather than hours, the engines were essentially single use items back in the day and we run to 400KM before inspection and expect 800KM between rebuilds. They make around 860bhp which isn't bad for a 3 litre naturally aspirated motor!
The gearbox is again single use. It is stripped and inspected after each run with any wearing parts replaced and rebuilt between each race weekend.
Items like uprights, clutches, fuel system, steering racks, brake calipers etc. are stripped and rebuilt between each race weekend. There is very little on the cars which goes twice without heavy inspection.
860bhp, not bad I guess. Nearly as much as my old Kent Xflow!The gearbox is again single use. It is stripped and inspected after each run with any wearing parts replaced and rebuilt between each race weekend.
Items like uprights, clutches, fuel system, steering racks, brake calipers etc. are stripped and rebuilt between each race weekend. There is very little on the cars which goes twice without heavy inspection.
Thankyou for the detailed information. Extremely impressive! 400kms before inspection is mind boggling considering the torture it will receive!
Thanks again for the info.
Amazing. Thanks for sharing! Gives an insight into how tightly specced everything is. Could not beelive the gearbox oil temp before you sorted a cooling solution.
Couple of questions:
1) You mentioned 'running out of air' - what was that to do with please and why?
2) The alternator temp sensor - I assume you picked that up retrospectively from data logging? Is it possible to use that as a trigger to stop the engine next time, or wouldn't you want to do that?
Couple of questions:
1) You mentioned 'running out of air' - what was that to do with please and why?
2) The alternator temp sensor - I assume you picked that up retrospectively from data logging? Is it possible to use that as a trigger to stop the engine next time, or wouldn't you want to do that?
poppopbangbang said:
rpla102 said:
If you have time, could you elaborate on what was 'ahead of its time' in relation to the grid back in 2004? Minardi clearly had a meagre budget in comparison to the leading teams but i'd love to hear any anecdotal evidence you may have?!
- Minardi had rapid cast Ti uprights in 1999, Jaguar were still on fabricated Ti in 2002- Minardi had torsion bar front and rear springs in 1999, it took until 2007 for the last of the other teams to go to torsion bars!
- Minardi had a rapid cast Ti gearbox during the closing stages of 2000 and ran rapid cast Ti gearboxes from that point on. Ferrari were fabricating their casing in 2001. A 2004/2005 Minardi box looks a lot more like a 2012/2013 front runners gearbox than a mid 2000's design.
- In 2000 Ferrari spent a huge amount of money developing pressure sensors in the plank to calculate wear rates and contact time. Minardi did the same thing with a £20 thermocouple.
- Minardi had a hydraulic brake bias adjuster in 2002, five years later some teams were still running a cable.
- In 2002 Minardi had rotaries for engine braking, traction control, engine mode and diff mode on the steering wheel. It would take a further two years for every car on the grid to get to this point.
- Minardi ran FRICS in 1993.
- Minardi ran pull rod front suspension in 2001.
- Minardi ran a blown diffuser in the later stages of 2001.
Etc. Etc.
Are all the telemetry systems operated - or are many non essential systems disabled?
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