Minardi PS04B - A Season In BOSS GP (Photo Heavy!)
Discussion
Brilliant stuff, thanks poppop once again.
1) The valves are pneumatic, so they run a compressed air tank in the car to keep them charged with (hopefully) sufficient air to keep them going for however many minutes of runtime you see. A couple of years ago there was an F1 fire where the compressed air tank went up, you can also see them sometimes on the really big smashes.
2) Probably wouldn't want to call engine shutdown based on one sensor, but you could use alternator temperature beyond a certain threshold, and a cutoff voltage measured elsewhere. Sounds like a pretty freak failure though.
mwstewart said:
Amazing. Thanks for sharing! Gives an insight into how tightly specced everything is. Could not beelive the gearbox oil temp before you sorted a cooling solution.
Couple of questions:
1) You mentioned 'running out of air' - what was that to do with please and why?
2) The alternator temp sensor - I assume you picked that up retrospectively from data logging? Is it possible to use that as a trigger to stop the engine next time, or wouldn't you want to do that?
Will bow to superior knowledge of course, but as I understand it:Couple of questions:
1) You mentioned 'running out of air' - what was that to do with please and why?
2) The alternator temp sensor - I assume you picked that up retrospectively from data logging? Is it possible to use that as a trigger to stop the engine next time, or wouldn't you want to do that?
1) The valves are pneumatic, so they run a compressed air tank in the car to keep them charged with (hopefully) sufficient air to keep them going for however many minutes of runtime you see. A couple of years ago there was an F1 fire where the compressed air tank went up, you can also see them sometimes on the really big smashes.
2) Probably wouldn't want to call engine shutdown based on one sensor, but you could use alternator temperature beyond a certain threshold, and a cutoff voltage measured elsewhere. Sounds like a pretty freak failure though.
PPBB,
Thanks for contributing as always. The tech shown without the bling is great to see.
Silly questions for you - is BOSS a BOP formula, or is it generally "newer cars beat older cars" unless a big era swing occurs?
The Minardi wasn't front running back in the day - are your competitors the previous years front runners, or is BOSS more of a "midfield and back" game because presumably e.g McLaren don't need to sell off old cars?
What confuses me is the presence of a car from possibly the best funded team in modern history - the Red Bull.
..and finally - how in gods name do you find more spares for next season? Do you have them made, or does an Ex F1 car have a short finite life before being an ex-BOSS racer and confined to the "we have no parts" graveyard?
Thanks for contributing as always. The tech shown without the bling is great to see.
Silly questions for you - is BOSS a BOP formula, or is it generally "newer cars beat older cars" unless a big era swing occurs?
The Minardi wasn't front running back in the day - are your competitors the previous years front runners, or is BOSS more of a "midfield and back" game because presumably e.g McLaren don't need to sell off old cars?
What confuses me is the presence of a car from possibly the best funded team in modern history - the Red Bull.
..and finally - how in gods name do you find more spares for next season? Do you have them made, or does an Ex F1 car have a short finite life before being an ex-BOSS racer and confined to the "we have no parts" graveyard?
poppopbangbang said:
BOSS are trying but it is difficult due to noise restrictions and circuit costs. Also the UK is a bit of an unknown, in Europe we are getting 50K+ spectators at some rounds which obviously subsidizes via ticket costs. In the UK we'd probably get 5K on a good day....
This saddens me. Most epic motorsport noise I remember is from the 50 year anniversary of AMOC at Donny. We were in Intermarque and Group C invitation (993 GT2) - the Group C cars noise was immense as anyone would imagine. Race finished, I decided he could find his own way back to the van: I'd done my bit, and would nip to the grandstandto watch the next race.Went to the grandstand. Watched the start with a full, full grid of F1 cars from late 90's back via the 6 wheeler tyrell and Brabham, on to the mid 70's epic cars with huge airboxes and sponsorship from fragrance manufacturers that remind you of colonial times...
My ears stopped wringing about a week later. They sounded epic. Especially the real old ones. The drivers were rich gents, but the guys at the front end seemed to think it was an audition for a drive with McLaren (who weren't s
t back then). It was brilliant.It's amazing that it couldn't pull a crowd. Thinking back, there might have been 100 people in that S/F grandstand on the AMOC weekend. I know one thing, a BOSS support race to ELMS / WEC would be a gazillion times more interesting than Porsche cup...
Teocali said:
Thank you for taking the time to share - fascinating for those of us on the outside looking in!
Are all the telemetry systems operated - or are many non essential systems disabled?
We aim to run the cars as close to how they originally raced as possible. To this end we are still running push rod load cells, brake temp IR's, Pitos etc. etc. as without them it is very difficult to run the car to its optimum. Are all the telemetry systems operated - or are many non essential systems disabled?
Our limiting factor these days is tyres as the Avon we run in BOSS is no where near the performance of the original tyres, these cost us 2 - 3 seconds a lap when compared to where the car was in the day.
Krikkit said:
Will bow to superior knowledge of course, but as I understand it:
1) The valves are pneumatic, so they run a compressed air tank in the car to keep them charged with (hopefully) sufficient air to keep them going for however many minutes of runtime you see. A couple of years ago there was an F1 fire where the compressed air tank went up, you can also see them sometimes on the really big smashes.
2) Probably wouldn't want to call engine shutdown based on one sensor, but you could use alternator temperature beyond a certain threshold, and a cutoff voltage measured elsewhere. Sounds like a pretty freak failure though.
Yep exactly. The air valve systems is a total loss system with a pressurised tank to feed the valves. Tank pressure is circa 250bar which is then regulated down to 18bar at the cylinder heads. The usual none catastrophic failure mode is a seal failure within one of the air valve bodies which results in very high air consumption. Rather than running the engine until it goes bang we elect to turn it off if it's reached the point where it's not going to make the rest of the race. 1) The valves are pneumatic, so they run a compressed air tank in the car to keep them charged with (hopefully) sufficient air to keep them going for however many minutes of runtime you see. A couple of years ago there was an F1 fire where the compressed air tank went up, you can also see them sometimes on the really big smashes.
2) Probably wouldn't want to call engine shutdown based on one sensor, but you could use alternator temperature beyond a certain threshold, and a cutoff voltage measured elsewhere. Sounds like a pretty freak failure though.
The alternator failure is a really rare one. They can and do fail like this but it is very, very rare. Alternator temp sensor is mainly used to determine if the alternator is running within limits or if we need to open the cooling up to it further.
poppopbangbang said:
Yep exactly. The air valve systems is a total loss system with a pressurised tank to feed the valves. Tank pressure is circa 250bar which is then regulated down to 18bar at the cylinder heads. The usual none catastrophic failure mode is a seal failure within one of the air valve bodies which results in very high air consumption. Rather than running the engine until it goes bang we elect to turn it off if it's reached the point where it's not going to make the rest of the race.
The alternator failure is a really rare one. They can and do fail like this but it is very, very rare. Alternator temp sensor is mainly used to determine if the alternator is running within limits or if we need to open the cooling up to it further.
Thanks for the explanation. Appreciate it is rare, but if it saves another fire...The alternator failure is a really rare one. They can and do fail like this but it is very, very rare. Alternator temp sensor is mainly used to determine if the alternator is running within limits or if we need to open the cooling up to it further.
em177 said:
lestiq said:
Top thread OP, you've introduced me to a series I knew nothing about. Uk Motorsport really needs to work on how it promotes itself, I keep randomly finding awesome racing series after they've finished.
This... in a big way Great thread and a fantastic read, it gives a great insight into what goes into an F1 car. My cousin, Justin Wilson raced the 2003 car, he was team mate to Jos Verstappen. He was tragically killed last year in a freak accident in Indycar.
It's nice to see these cars still being used for what they were intended for, good luck with the next season.
It's nice to see these cars still being used for what they were intended for, good luck with the next season.
Great read, thoroughly enjoyed that, thanks!
I was going to ask if these cars were an iteration of the A23 Arrows that my late brother designed front suspension, hubs, uprights etc for but a google shows that the A23s bought by PS were no better than the PSO3 so your cars are the reworked PS03 chassis and not the A23 arrows which internet says were later sold and ran as the Super Aguri cars...
Amazing that you can run any 'modern' F1 car like this. Can only assume that sponsorship and prize money don't come close to running costs and much is just done of love of it. Big thumbs up!
Ben
I was going to ask if these cars were an iteration of the A23 Arrows that my late brother designed front suspension, hubs, uprights etc for but a google shows that the A23s bought by PS were no better than the PSO3 so your cars are the reworked PS03 chassis and not the A23 arrows which internet says were later sold and ran as the Super Aguri cars...
Amazing that you can run any 'modern' F1 car like this. Can only assume that sponsorship and prize money don't come close to running costs and much is just done of love of it. Big thumbs up!
Ben
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