Not Your Everyday Race Car - The Mighty Citroen

Not Your Everyday Race Car - The Mighty Citroen

Author
Discussion

Mark Benson

Original Poster:

7,534 posts

270 months

Tuesday 31st January 2017
quotequote all
Short update - fired up by the weekend's progress, I went out last night and fitted the wiring for the club approved Masai spotlights so that I can start trimming the upper dash to fit round the cage, that's then the wiring and piping done from inside to out so I can wire in the laptimer, refit the dash permanently and move on to mechanicals.


Mark Benson

Original Poster:

7,534 posts

270 months

Thursday 2nd February 2017
quotequote all
I've been hunting down a decent welder via local racing friends and have a few options now, but before I can take the car to be welded I need to be able to close the doors (I'll be driving it there as the car is still road legal). At the moment they foul on the cage, and the cage has to be in when I get to the welders so that they can tack weld it in the right place, remove the cage and then seam weld the spreaders properly.

I could take the door trim off completely, but it's not too difficult to make the cuts needed with the right tool, so last night I set about hacking them to bits.

As usual, the Haynes manual was blasé, suggesting the window winder would come off by 'inserting a wide bladed tool between the handle and the door trim and wiggling the handle while pulling'. In actual fact there's a spring clip which, unless it's released absolutely refuses to let the handle go. It took an age to discover this, as the handle and trim are so close together.

In fact, when the handle wouldn't come off I thought I might be able to cut the trim in situ:



But it soon became apparent that some of the angles were too tight to get the tool into. A word about the tool also - my joiner showed me this a few years ago when we were laying wooden flooring, they're perfect for cutting plastic dashboards and the like and make the job so much easier, well worth the money if you have something like this to do.

In less time than it took me to remove the window handle, I'd managed this:



I also got the rear spring mount from Gaz today which means as long as I get the 12mm hex attachment I ordered I can assemble the new rear suspension this evening - another step to getting the car on the road and to the welders.

Mark Benson

Original Poster:

7,534 posts

270 months

Thursday 2nd February 2017
quotequote all
As above, it's expected that the 4 hour race at Snett will be £700 entry fees.
Only one set of tyres needed for a 4 hour race, plus fuel of course, which we'll work out a bit more accurately when we have our first test (which to answer the question above could well be Croft on March 13th, if not then early April) and wear and tear.

I'd say on top of initial costs for the car and conversion, testing, travel and accom. you could budget a grand per 4 hour race and you'll be about right, more if something breaks and factor in consumables (oil, pads etc.).

Edited by Mark Benson on Thursday 2nd February 14:52


Edited by Mark Benson on Thursday 2nd February 15:23

Mark Benson

Original Poster:

7,534 posts

270 months

Thursday 2nd February 2017
quotequote all
Sir Lord Poopie said:
Remove the seats by all means as they're easy to reinstall, but the dash / door panels are unnecessary removals and has effectively reduced the car to scrap at the end of your use.

How much time do you expect to gain by removing ~500 grams worth of plastic door card? Too much faffing for me; keep the interior and port the head, that's how the winning vehicle will have been modified.
confused

The car was effectively one step away from scrap when we bought it, it's a 10 year old city car with a Cat D marker on it. It'll only ever be a race car from now on.

The rules state the door cars are to be retained, but they need to be trimmed to fit round the door bars of the cage.

And the rules also state no head work, in fact no changes to the engine at all and only club permitted changes to the drivetrain so the winning vehicle won't have been ported, as it would have been disqualified.


Mark Benson

Original Poster:

7,534 posts

270 months

Friday 3rd February 2017
quotequote all
geeks said:
It still really bothers me that the door cards have to remain, cutting htem looks crap, why cant they do what every other race series does and allow us to bin them and panel over? I know the plastic has to be cut to fit the cage but this just makes it look shoddy!

Also did you see the storm in a teacup on facebook when someone flocked there dashboard? hehe
Flockgate!

I know what you mean about the door cards, I'm going to try and find something to neaten them up (but it's low on my priorities list).

Mark Benson

Original Poster:

7,534 posts

270 months

Tuesday 7th February 2017
quotequote all
As I understand it, this is going to be a separate series.
There are around 15 cars built or in the process and a few more with the intention of doing so, which makes it look viable as a standalone series. The original intention was to piggyback on the 2CV championship, but there was opposition to that from the 2CVs and at the same time quite a response to the idea from prospective C1 racers.

It seems to have caught people's imagination as it did ours; OK the cars aren't exactly firebreathing monsters but they're equal so it's down to the drivers and cost of entry is relatively accessible.

For example, this car's modifications are such that I can do them myself. I've had a fair bit of experience tinkering and I know what a race car should look and feel like, but I couldn't build a competitive race car for say Modern Classics, the series we raced in last year - the engine mods alone would put me off - and certainly not for £5-6k (which is what this one looks to be costing, but we're not skimping on parts).

The other thing of course is that the races are between 4 and 24 hours long, which you simply can't do on a budget anymore.

Anyway, progress over the weekend:

Rear suspension built back up after a replacement spring platform from Gaz:



Door cards back in:



Steering wheel and pedals fitted and a general tidy up. Had to get the horn working as it's required for the MOT but there's only one wire, the circuit completes through the steering wheel chassis so I added a short wire to the steering wheel boss and connected it to the horn push in the centre of the new wheel.


Mark Benson

Original Poster:

7,534 posts

270 months

Wednesday 15th February 2017
quotequote all
andy97 said:
One of our worries is that we spend £4-5k building a car and then only 5 cars turn up and so the series gets canned.

TBH, there's not really anywhere else to race them and so that money is down the pan.
That's what I said to Rich back in September, and well, this thread was started in October when we bought the car......

I have no willpower.

Mark Benson

Original Poster:

7,534 posts

270 months

Thursday 16th February 2017
quotequote all
liner33 said:
OP will you post the race season details ? We are interested to come along to spectate at one if we can
http://c1racing.club/2017-calendar/

Gives you confirmed and provisional dates.

Mark Benson

Original Poster:

7,534 posts

270 months

Friday 17th February 2017
quotequote all
ribiero said:
Silly question, according to the regs these cars have to be road registered (which is great for true budget racing imo) does this throw up any surprises when trawling yards for cat c's and d's?
We ended up buying one that a breaker had put back on the road (new wing and a couple of other bits) so we didn't have to jump through too many hoops and we have an MOT until September.

One tip we were told was when you come to MOT it after it's converted, find somewhere that will test it as a rally car as they can then ignore airbag lights etc. Don't know how true this is but it seems to make sense.

Having it road registered means that you can do a lot of shakedown testing on the road, rather than having to buy track time every time you want to check something. Living on the edge of the Dales helps on that score, too smile

Mark Benson

Original Poster:

7,534 posts

270 months

Monday 6th March 2017
quotequote all
So a bit of a break from the build as life got in the way, however yesterday saw me back out into the garage to get the car ready for taking to the welders.

First problem, when Rich and I drilled the holes for the captive nuts in the cage spreader plates, we didn't take the paint and seam sealer off before we refitted the cage.
That meant the whole cage had to come out yet again so I could prepare the areas to be welded:



Seam sealer is a pain to remove, especially in the inaccessible areas around the B pillar. An old chisel, copius amounts of paint stripper and a lot of swearing were the answer but it took a long time to get all four areas prepped. However, I got there and there is now clean metal to weld to:



Another problem that had been annoying me was the steering wheel - Demon Tweeks sold us a boss which was purportedly for a C1 but it can't have been because once refitted, it crushed the connector for the horn and airbag against the housing and caused the stalks to wave around when the wheel was turned. See the connector in this picture:



...well the recess in the boss wasn't big enough to accommodate it, so with a combination of drill and Dremel with a milling bit, I made it larger (and in the process look like rats had been at it):



The wheel now goes on without fouling anything. So next up was fit the seat back in for the trip to the welders. We have a race seat but one of the welding jobs is to fit the harness mounts. I didn't want to use a race seat with standard belts, and even if I did the receiver is attached to the seat so it would make more work just to have the race seat in, so back in with the original driver's seat and belt:



The bumper went back on, rear suspension was all bolted up and the car lowered onto it's wheels, the rear (which has the new springs and dampers) is significantly lower than the front (which is still on the original setup), the car looks like it's collapsed at the rear.



So, off to the welders this week with any luck then the front suspension and tracking.


Edited by Mark Benson on Monday 6th March 09:59

Mark Benson

Original Poster:

7,534 posts

270 months

Wednesday 8th March 2017
quotequote all
andy97 said:
Silver ones are faster ;-)
'Faster' is relative in C1 terms I suspect.

Good to hear there's another 'not red' one being built.

Mark Benson

Original Poster:

7,534 posts

270 months

Tuesday 4th April 2017
quotequote all
Long time no update - I've been a bit busy, working overseas and going through the process of selection for a new job so work on the car has been sporadic but I've had a good run recently so here's the latest.

The car went to the welders just before I left for Paris, when I drove it back it was comically poor handling, with a standard front end but race suspension on the rear and a hugely stiffened body shell (see pic below) - damp roundabouts became oversteer, mash the throttle, avoid obstacles, apologise to other road users. I felt like a complete hooligan even at low speeds. Not particularly relaxing but I think once on track and set up, it's going to be a fun little car.

So, pictures:

Muchly stiffened body now, the whole side comes up on the jack:



and nice neat welds (though a terrible picture):



But a problem. The welder attached the harness plates to the inside of the car:



they should be on the outside so that the plate pulls 'through' the body if you get my meaning, but he took the car straight back and corrected his mistake (or my failure to convey what I wanted) FOC so we were all good.

I then set about trimming the dash top to go round the cage:



And blocking off the vents I'd just cut off so all the air is directed towards the screen:



Before refitting the dash top:



I've still to tidy up around the dash ends, probably with some ally plate and satin black spray, but if time I might do something fancy with the removed vents as they're quite funky.

I then went off to France for a few weeks for work:



(yes, they're snails. Better than you'd imagine but not something I'd go out of my way to order)

Back from France and cracking on.....

We can use an AIM Solo lap timer (no other timing/logging permitted) so I'm going to mount it on the shelf above the radio and use the 12v supply for the cigar lighter that I removed to fit the panel holding the electrical cut-off and extinguisher pull:



I've made up an ally bracket that I've painted to match the rest of the car, I should be fitting that this week.

Other jobs done are the rear tow straps - remove bumper, realise how rusty the crash structure is underneath, wire brush/flapper off the rust, prime, paint and reattach bumper with suitable holes cut out::





So while I had the paint out I gave the floor in the front of the car a blow over (there was only a mist coat there from the factory as it's usually covered by carpet):



and finally fitted the seat:



Hopefully I'll get a bit more time on the car as I'm due some time at home now, so the updates might be a bit more frequent.


Edited by Mark Benson on Tuesday 4th April 16:49

Mark Benson

Original Poster:

7,534 posts

270 months

Wednesday 5th April 2017
quotequote all
There is one big job (front suspension and extended driveshafts) and a few smaller ones left to do.
I seem to remember Rich saying he'd booked a trackday at Croft (5 miles from me) on Good Friday so I really need to get the suspension done by then and get it aligned etc. I have a tracking gauge so I can do that here.
It could also really do with a clutch before then (definitely before racing) but I may well cheat and pay a local mechanic to do it on his ramps, I'm getting too old and lazy I think smile
Then there's pads/shoes, fluid and bleeding, the front spots, tank guard to fit, fitting the extinguisher and a few other odds and ends.

The end's in sight, and like I say, I should get a bit more time with the car this month.

Mark Benson

Original Poster:

7,534 posts

270 months

Thursday 6th April 2017
quotequote all
skeggysteve said:
Mark Benson said:
...
I seem to remember Rich saying he'd booked a trackday at Croft...
I've just had a look and you're on the list but not Rich and not with the C1 - does he not have any faith in your ability to get the car ready? winkbiggrin

Let me know nearer the time if you are taking the C1 and I'll get cover and throw a few spanners (and a hammersmile ) in the car and come and help out.
Looks like we're doing the test day on the 28th Steve. Also, it's a different Rich to the one you know - he's off this year renting a seat in Fun Cup.

Mark Benson

Original Poster:

7,534 posts

270 months

Friday 7th April 2017
quotequote all
Rev counter - yes, I bought one from a breaker assuming the loom would be there for it - it was (most cars come wired for all possible accessories these days, it makes sense at the factory not to have different looms for differently optioned cars).

Tow loops - bugger, hadn't thought of that. We'll take our chances for now. Stupid rule - you'd have to be blind not to notice them, with or without the orange ribbon.

Mark Benson

Original Poster:

7,534 posts

270 months

Friday 7th April 2017
quotequote all
geeks said:
Munter said:
Mark Benson said:
Rev counter - yes, I bought one from a breaker assuming the loom would be there for it - it was (most cars come wired for all possible accessories these days, it makes sense at the factory not to have different looms for differently optioned cars).

Tow loops - bugger, hadn't thought of that. We'll take our chances for now. Stupid rule - you'd have to be blind not to notice them, with or without the orange ribbon.
I presume one could just "wrap" them in coloured insulation tape.
Probably as a one off they would be ok with that, take it to scrutinering with you just in case, we always take tape and cable ties with us just incase hehe
yes
Cable ties, tape and a determination to remain good humoured whatever the scrut finds.....

Mark Benson

Original Poster:

7,534 posts

270 months

Thursday 20th April 2017
quotequote all
Mega-update time....nearly there.

First off, I said I'd have more time on the car then managed to inflame an old back injury which means nothing much got started after the previous update, and with race weekend looming I've had to farm out the heavy/awkward stuff to a local garage - namely the clutch and front suspension work.

However, there was still plenty to do, starting with the final plumbing in of the extinguisher. Rich had run pipes for it into the driver's footwell, but on inspection I wasn't happy that they ran behind the pedals - too much of a chance for them to foul the pedals and at best distract the driver so I re-routed them and bolted in the extinguisher (this was how I did my back in, trying to do up bolts under the car without a helper).

Footwell brackets (notice also the ally holding the dash steady where I had to cut into it):





And joining the pipes and the pull cables into the extinguisher:



With a bad back the jobs I could do were limited, but I fitted the AIM Datalogger to the dash and refitted that section:



...cut and glued the air vents back in place (no air will flow through these, it just neatens up the dash a bit):



So then a few days off for the back to heal, and Rich came up for an intensive two-day session in the garage, our aim was to get all the outstanding work done except the stuff we're farming out.

We started with the brakes, new shoes and drums on the back, pads and discs on the front plus new fluid.

I've never done more than adjust drums before, I never want to do this job again. Horrible, horrible combination of needing 4 hands and superhuman strength and dexterity to refit springs and pins.

Drum off, hardly any wear on the shoes, it crossed my mind to leave them as it's clear they get little use. I should have listened to myself. Instead we removed shoes, springs:



...which sprung everywhere and refused to go back into the little holes they were supposed to. I don't have any more pictures of the rears being done, we were both sick of the sight of them. Here's a picture of a new drum in situ instead:



Then on to the fronts, unfortunately Rich jinxed the process by predicting we'd have them done in no time compared to the rears. We probably would have until......:



...that's a snapped locating screw which had to be drilled out and retapped, making the job just that little bit more annoying.
Eventually though the calipers were off, and onto the bench to be cleaned up:



...but at least everything went back together OK:



We then changed the fluid using a pressure bleeder (no pictures), the fluid coming out of the car was surprisingly clear, it looks like this car may have had new fluid recently.

After the brakes, it was a series of miscellaneous jobs, such as.......

Front tow straps (yes, still the blue ones, we'll take our chances for the first race). Also notice the brackets for the spotlights poking out and rivnuts for the number plate as we're required to put sponsor stickers where the plate goes, but we want to keep it road-legal for testing etc:



Instead of a second rain light, you can use the foglight on the right hand side and change the wiring to make the reversing light on the left into a fog light by colouring the lens red. So a coat of my wife's 'Celebrity Bash' nail polish and we have a pair of rain lights.



Ta da!



Bumper back off and wiring made up for the spotlights:





Bumper on, spots on!


FIA regs state the car has to have window film on all non-laminated glass - so out with the water spray, squeegee and sharp blade. Not a simple job with the cage in, if we do another one this will be the first job after stripping the interior. We also messed up the rear windscreen by trying to do the whole lot in one sheet of film, the compound curves just mean it creases and bubbles. We ran out of film so the rear is still to do but more research needed first I think:



Tidying up the cutouts in the doorcards with blue edging:



Then on with the wheels (and a rare picture of Rich with his hands dirty).



And we're pretty much done, other than the stuff at the local garage next Monday - but what a transformation.
From this:



To this:





Test day at Croft on the 28th, then first race on May 7th at Snetterton. Before that, once the front suspension and clutch is done I'll be testing it on the roads around here (taxed and insured yesterday) so that we can concentrate on setup at Croft.

Mark Benson

Original Poster:

7,534 posts

270 months

Friday 21st April 2017
quotequote all
Krikkit said:
Is the front suspension supposed to be fit and no mods? Be happy to do it for you if you drive it down to north Lincs. tongue out

Looking good though, the race lights and towing eyes make all the difference!
Yes, the lower wishbone is extended to give some camber (I forget how much, 2 or 3 deg I think) so you need to fit extended driveshafts and extend the steering arms by adding a spacer before the track rod ends. All easily do-able if you're fit, even easier with ramps but being on the garage floor and risking doing my back in further (then missing out on actually driving the thing) means it's sensible to take it to my local indy.
While it's there I'm getting them to do the clutch - another job I don't fancy doing on my back under axle stands.

I'll snap some pictures of the parts before I get them fitted to illustrate.

Mark Benson

Original Poster:

7,534 posts

270 months

Friday 21st April 2017
quotequote all
liner33 said:
I hate to be one of "those" guys but are those fire system brackets staying like that in the footwell , look really sharp and could be nasty in a shunt ?
No, you're quite right. In order to get the plumbing in I needed to make them up quickly but they're on my list to do. I was going to round off the sides and put some of the edging on them.

Mark Benson

Original Poster:

7,534 posts

270 months

Monday 24th April 2017
quotequote all
Got an hour or so at the weekend to tackle the extinguisher mounts:

Floor mounted one just needed some edging:



The upper one I trimmed and smoothed off:



So it sits much more neatly away from the driver:



Dropped the car off this morning to have this lot (plus a new clutch) fitted:



This is the fillet of steel welded into the lower wishbone to give camber...



...necessitating an extended driveshaft (doesn't look the neatest welding but I hope it's been balanced, certainly no-one has complained of any vibration on the cars fitted so far):



More pics from the test day on Friday I suspect.