Building a Honda sleeper (help needed from Honda experts)
Discussion
I've just bought these two and the plan is to build a light weight car with great handling that can be used on track with some occasional road use whilst retaining its 'granny goes shopping' sleeper looks.
Car 1.
Bog standard rust free 1995 Civic 1.5 Lsi (what model are these known as in Honda world?)
This is a one owner low mileage car (done 60k) with full history.
This will be the basis of the new car.
Should end up with just under 190 bhp, LSD, uprated suspension and brakes with under 1000 kg.
Car 2
Bog standard low mileage FSH Civic 1.8 Vti that belonged to one of my pals mum' for the last 15 years.
Its a shame to do this to such a nice clean rust free example but that's the plan.
170 bhp with a 5 speed and LSD.
I was expecting this to drive a bit like my Dc2 Integra Type R did but its nothing of the sort, its soft, bouncy, the steering has no feel.
I was going to use this for track days but does not feel like it would be any good so will just use the engine and gearbox and whatever other bits I need to swop over.
Which would be a good UK Honda forum to get some tips/advice from people who have done this before?
Plans include
Using Mg ZS suspension (struts and rear anti roll bar)
Lower final drive on g/box
Bigger front brakes that still fit inside 15" wheels
ECU swop to increase rev limit, lower vtec switch over point.
Car 1.
Bog standard rust free 1995 Civic 1.5 Lsi (what model are these known as in Honda world?)
This is a one owner low mileage car (done 60k) with full history.
This will be the basis of the new car.
Should end up with just under 190 bhp, LSD, uprated suspension and brakes with under 1000 kg.
Car 2
Bog standard low mileage FSH Civic 1.8 Vti that belonged to one of my pals mum' for the last 15 years.
Its a shame to do this to such a nice clean rust free example but that's the plan.
170 bhp with a 5 speed and LSD.
I was expecting this to drive a bit like my Dc2 Integra Type R did but its nothing of the sort, its soft, bouncy, the steering has no feel.
I was going to use this for track days but does not feel like it would be any good so will just use the engine and gearbox and whatever other bits I need to swop over.
Which would be a good UK Honda forum to get some tips/advice from people who have done this before?
Plans include
Using Mg ZS suspension (struts and rear anti roll bar)
Lower final drive on g/box
Bigger front brakes that still fit inside 15" wheels
ECU swop to increase rev limit, lower vtec switch over point.
Edited by rallycross on Tuesday 7th March 11:05
pull the engine and box out of the rover shape. source a set of civic type r camshafts and 98 spec integra exhaust manifold. fit these and put the engine and box into your eg hatch. that's the simple part wiring looms will be your main obstacle. if the eg hatch had of been an esi model you could use its existing engine loom. I'm unsure if the rover shape engine loom will plug into the body loom they join in the foot Wells. they are easy to remove and check you may be lucky that it's all plug and play. as for brakes the Honda hrv came with a b20 engine the discs and caliper are a straight swap for a bigger better system but also fit under 15 inch wheels
Civic eg and ek have been engine swapped so frequently when I see one not driven by someone's grandma I assume it's probably been b16/b18 swapped.
I'd go for something with less of a following for a true sleeper
Also quite surprised to hear you thought a 5 door saloon civic would feel like a teg type r
I'd go for something with less of a following for a true sleeper
Also quite surprised to hear you thought a 5 door saloon civic would feel like a teg type r
Edited by DannyScene on Tuesday 7th March 17:02
Edited by DannyScene on Tuesday 7th March 17:04
I essentially built what you're looking to do a long time ago, by far the best car i've owned in terms of scuff of the neck, rag every single RPM fun.
Depends on your budget but if i were doing it i would;
Turf the head and gearbox from your donor car, and go for either a complete ITR head or use a VTi head with ITR camshafts, as for the gearbox you could go down the routes of final drives (iirc 2nd gear 8200rpm in VTI-s is well into 80mph's) but i would source a 98 spec DC2 for the 4.7fd and better ratio's, which will save you wanting to lower the vtec crossover. With this set up on a B16 bottom end i made 196bhp and was still making power at 8800rpm; porous valves stopped play for raising the revs.
Brakes- I would scan breakers for a set of v6 Legend calipers, twin piston callipers to suit the ZS discs, excellent stoppers if you can pick up a 1" master cylinder to suit, i think the one in your VTI-S will be a 15/16ths.
Hubs etc should swap over from your VTI but you'll be left with 4 x 114.3 PCD, just so you know.
As for wiring, if i remember right (it'll be 8 years since i tinkered with Honda's) your VTI-S will be OBD-2B wiring, and your EG will be OBD1, so you would need to go down the route of conversion harnesses to make everything talk; you can if you want to do it purely functional, run the additional wires for vtec solenoid etc and pin them in at the respective point of the interior wiring loom.
I always look to do another but part prices are through the roof and most shells are rotten, my promise to myself is that i'll reshell at 98 spec DC2 into an EG6 shell some day.
Depends on your budget but if i were doing it i would;
Turf the head and gearbox from your donor car, and go for either a complete ITR head or use a VTi head with ITR camshafts, as for the gearbox you could go down the routes of final drives (iirc 2nd gear 8200rpm in VTI-s is well into 80mph's) but i would source a 98 spec DC2 for the 4.7fd and better ratio's, which will save you wanting to lower the vtec crossover. With this set up on a B16 bottom end i made 196bhp and was still making power at 8800rpm; porous valves stopped play for raising the revs.
Brakes- I would scan breakers for a set of v6 Legend calipers, twin piston callipers to suit the ZS discs, excellent stoppers if you can pick up a 1" master cylinder to suit, i think the one in your VTI-S will be a 15/16ths.
Hubs etc should swap over from your VTI but you'll be left with 4 x 114.3 PCD, just so you know.
As for wiring, if i remember right (it'll be 8 years since i tinkered with Honda's) your VTI-S will be OBD-2B wiring, and your EG will be OBD1, so you would need to go down the route of conversion harnesses to make everything talk; you can if you want to do it purely functional, run the additional wires for vtec solenoid etc and pin them in at the respective point of the interior wiring loom.
I always look to do another but part prices are through the roof and most shells are rotten, my promise to myself is that i'll reshell at 98 spec DC2 into an EG6 shell some day.
The B18C4 in the VTI-S users OBD1 style wiring so will plug straight into the EG. You will need to run a wire for the IAB's and a secondary VTEC wire (I think) .
You will need a P28 ecu with a map for the B18C4 (google H-tune, they can sort you out)
It's actually a pretty simple conversion, I did it about 6 years ago.
The stay are gearbox etc is fine IMO, yes the gearing is a bit
Long but it's not enough to chuck £1000+ at another gearbox (or whatever a DC2 box is these days)
Use the MB6 suspension and brakes and you've 282mm fronts and rear discs too. Should all bolt on. You'll need handbrake cables I think from. VTI EG.
Good luck.
You will need a P28 ecu with a map for the B18C4 (google H-tune, they can sort you out)
It's actually a pretty simple conversion, I did it about 6 years ago.
The stay are gearbox etc is fine IMO, yes the gearing is a bit
Long but it's not enough to chuck £1000+ at another gearbox (or whatever a DC2 box is these days)
Use the MB6 suspension and brakes and you've 282mm fronts and rear discs too. Should all bolt on. You'll need handbrake cables I think from. VTI EG.
Good luck.
rallycross said:
I've just bought these two and the plan is to build a light weight car with great handling that can be used on track with some occasional road use whilst retaining its 'granny goes shopping' sleeper looks.
Car 1.
Bog standard rust free 1995 Civic 1.5 Lsi (what model are these known as in Honda world?)
This is a one owner low mileage car (done 60k) with full history.
This will be the basis of the new car.
Should end up with just under 190 bhp, LSD, uprated suspension and brakes with under 1000 kg.
Car 2
Bog standard low mileage FSH Civic 1.8 Vti that belonged to one of my pals mum' for the last 15 years.
Its a shame to do this to such a nice clean rust free example but that's the plan.
170 bhp with a 5 speed and LSD.
I was expecting this to drive a bit like my Dc2 Integra Type R did but its nothing of the sort, its soft, bouncy, the steering has no feel.
I was going to use this for track days but does not feel like it would be any good so will just use the engine and gearbox and whatever other bits I need to swop over.
Which would be a good UK Honda forum to get some tips/advice from people who have done this before?
Plans include
Using Mg ZS suspension (struts and rear anti roll bar)
Lower final drive on g/box
Bigger front brakes that still fit inside 15" wheels
ECU swop to increase rev limit, lower vtec switch over point.
I'll buy the white lsi if your not interested, how much is it going far? Car 1.
Bog standard rust free 1995 Civic 1.5 Lsi (what model are these known as in Honda world?)
This is a one owner low mileage car (done 60k) with full history.
This will be the basis of the new car.
Should end up with just under 190 bhp, LSD, uprated suspension and brakes with under 1000 kg.
Car 2
Bog standard low mileage FSH Civic 1.8 Vti that belonged to one of my pals mum' for the last 15 years.
Its a shame to do this to such a nice clean rust free example but that's the plan.
170 bhp with a 5 speed and LSD.
I was expecting this to drive a bit like my Dc2 Integra Type R did but its nothing of the sort, its soft, bouncy, the steering has no feel.
I was going to use this for track days but does not feel like it would be any good so will just use the engine and gearbox and whatever other bits I need to swop over.
Which would be a good UK Honda forum to get some tips/advice from people who have done this before?
Plans include
Using Mg ZS suspension (struts and rear anti roll bar)
Lower final drive on g/box
Bigger front brakes that still fit inside 15" wheels
ECU swop to increase rev limit, lower vtec switch over point.
Edited by rallycross on Tuesday 7th March 11:05
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