1972 Saab 99 L - Green
Discussion
Worth asking about the heater box on UKSaabs, there are bits of old Saabs stashed away in garages and sheds across the length and breadth of the country!
Would need to be from a pre-73ish car though. Later ones were plastic and a different shape, and from your pics the shape of the bulkhead metal changed too, so doubt a retrofit could be made to work.
If all else fails, removing and stripping the old one for blasting will probably reveal localised holes that could be patched and the rest treated and painted...
Would need to be from a pre-73ish car though. Later ones were plastic and a different shape, and from your pics the shape of the bulkhead metal changed too, so doubt a retrofit could be made to work.
If all else fails, removing and stripping the old one for blasting will probably reveal localised holes that could be patched and the rest treated and painted...
99t said:
Very nice indeed - you really do have a special lady there!
The "B" 2.0 engine is a bonus - a little more power than the 1850 and probably better parts availability as it was used through until about 1980-ish when they changed to the "H" version that resides in your T16S (albeit with added turbo, twin cam head etc.)
As you get used to the car, you'll find out how good the steering feel is in a 99. Sure it can be a bit weighty when maneuvering, but it will come alive on the open road
How's your 99T rebuild going?The "B" 2.0 engine is a bonus - a little more power than the 1850 and probably better parts availability as it was used through until about 1980-ish when they changed to the "H" version that resides in your T16S (albeit with added turbo, twin cam head etc.)
As you get used to the car, you'll find out how good the steering feel is in a 99. Sure it can be a bit weighty when maneuvering, but it will come alive on the open road
Nice car.
A few remembered quirks from my time with a B-engined 99 back in the dim and distant:
(1) Make sure the breather pipe connection to the rocker cover is secure - from memory, it is a push-fit, and the seals can degrade, causing the pipe elbow connector to come off, leading to a complete loss of vacuum for the carb and distributor and an absence of go / starting.
(2) Clutch changes require in theory special tools. If you want to DIY it, assuming you have working clutch hydraulics, you can avoid the need for the Saab special "tensioner ring" tool by using old rigid brake pipe instead bent into the appropriate shape. Lots of write-ups online, but none featuring the brake pipe trick. Oh and 99 master cylinders tend to age along with the clutch springs - very usual to fit a new clutch and find the pedal needing to be pumped.
(3) 99 suspension camber and caster is (unlike most modern cars) adjustable with shims. Over time, the wishbone-to-body bolts can loosen, and the shims drop out (or well-meaning owners / mechanics don't understand them when "restoring" vehicles - especially if welding has been needed in the driveshaft tunnels). 99s do like to understeer; older 99s on narrow tyres really like to understeer. Fit great front tyres, ditchfinders at the rear, and get the suspension set up with a bit of negative camber (-1.0/-1.5 or so), plenty of caster, and minimal toe-in to get a much more planted front end Yours looks like it isn't running any negative camber; I'd check the shims are in place first, then take it to be aligned to your chosen specs. Lots of info on the forums. I'm not suggesting turning it into a sportster; just that in emergency situations a well-aged stock setup can be pretty quick to lose front end grip, especially in the wet, which isn't all that reassuring when it happens - some simple optimisation can make a big difference.
(4) On a B-engined 99, keep an eye out for waterpump leaks. Apart from causing hot running, pumps are not easily sourced (although rebuild kits are available now, I believe) and not at all easy to DIY install IIRC. Later Bs had a revised (not in a good way) waterpump drive; yours is an early B, so should be more robust.
Nice car.
A few remembered quirks from my time with a B-engined 99 back in the dim and distant:
(1) Make sure the breather pipe connection to the rocker cover is secure - from memory, it is a push-fit, and the seals can degrade, causing the pipe elbow connector to come off, leading to a complete loss of vacuum for the carb and distributor and an absence of go / starting.
(2) Clutch changes require in theory special tools. If you want to DIY it, assuming you have working clutch hydraulics, you can avoid the need for the Saab special "tensioner ring" tool by using old rigid brake pipe instead bent into the appropriate shape. Lots of write-ups online, but none featuring the brake pipe trick. Oh and 99 master cylinders tend to age along with the clutch springs - very usual to fit a new clutch and find the pedal needing to be pumped.
(3) 99 suspension camber and caster is (unlike most modern cars) adjustable with shims. Over time, the wishbone-to-body bolts can loosen, and the shims drop out (or well-meaning owners / mechanics don't understand them when "restoring" vehicles - especially if welding has been needed in the driveshaft tunnels). 99s do like to understeer; older 99s on narrow tyres really like to understeer. Fit great front tyres, ditchfinders at the rear, and get the suspension set up with a bit of negative camber (-1.0/-1.5 or so), plenty of caster, and minimal toe-in to get a much more planted front end
Yours looks like it isn't running any negative camber; I'd check the shims are in place first, then take it to be aligned to your chosen specs. Lots of info on the forums. I'm not suggesting turning it into a sportster; just that in emergency situations a well-aged stock setup can be pretty quick to lose front end grip, especially in the wet, which isn't all that reassuring when it happens - some simple optimisation can make a big difference.(4) On a B-engined 99, keep an eye out for waterpump leaks. Apart from causing hot running, pumps are not easily sourced (although rebuild kits are available now, I believe) and not at all easy to DIY install IIRC. Later Bs had a revised (not in a good way) waterpump drive; yours is an early B, so should be more robust.
Nice car.
99t said:
Worth asking about the heater box on UKSaabs, there are bits of old Saabs stashed away in garages and sheds across the length and breadth of the country!
Would need to be from a pre-73ish car though. Later ones were plastic and a different shape, and from your pics the shape of the bulkhead metal changed too, so doubt a retrofit could be made to work.
If all else fails, removing and stripping the old one for blasting will probably reveal localised holes that could be patched and the rest treated and painted...
Yes I'll get on uksaabs in due course, they are all very helpful for the T16 problem solving and hopefully someone has a stash of useful bits sitting in a cave...!Would need to be from a pre-73ish car though. Later ones were plastic and a different shape, and from your pics the shape of the bulkhead metal changed too, so doubt a retrofit could be made to work.
If all else fails, removing and stripping the old one for blasting will probably reveal localised holes that could be patched and the rest treated and painted...
skwdenyer said:
A few remembered quirks from my time with a B-engined 99 back in the dim and distant ...Nice car.
Thanks for these - yes the previous owner put on the Toyo 310s, but no evidence of alignment - I definitely need all the help I can get for setup!Sunday morning - a strong frost and clear sky made it the perfect wintery environ for our first little outing as the new owners - to Duke of London COffee & Cake down in Brentford. I've been attending these for many years across various sites, and - just like PH - its the variety and opennes that brings us back.
Naturally, the car was frozen solid.
Now we're back to the proper classic motoring experience - hot cloth on the locks to warm up the barrel...
We.. ahem... managed without the boot...
Gentle persuasion on the door to not damage the seals, gently gently... my wife primer the choke and - first crank, easy start!
Caution - fog warning.
Some gentle warming and a returned choke later, the 99 nosed its way neatly through traffic and fog to Kew Bridge. Wife reported it to be as test driven - responsive, light, keen and with a very tight gearbox and brake pedal. All lights worked. The only issue we encountered was a lack of hot air for the 'vents', but thankfully plenty of hot air (delivered within a minute, thank the trolls) for the 'dash' and feet. As a small car with a seemingly thermonuclear heater, we were toasty in no time. The rear defrosted in doublequick time thanks to a duct running through the floorpan. Lovely stuff!
At Brentford, the usual eclectic mix of classics, supercars, 80s brilliance and social media types abound. Excellent coffee and food, mind.
Merlin's wheels..
I love this Riviera, especially in white...
Oh, and this old thing...
Great crowd, 99 got a fair bit of attention and wife was instantly awake chatting with the attendees and hearing their stories of 99 Turbos, parent's cars and rallies...
We took the long route home through Richmond park, and I have to say it really is perfect for inner city - 4 speed box fine at 20 or 30, suspension really, really supple and ignorant of road condition, speedbumps zero issue and the size is brilliant. Also, everyone lets it out at junctions.
Naturally, the car was frozen solid.
Now we're back to the proper classic motoring experience - hot cloth on the locks to warm up the barrel...
We.. ahem... managed without the boot...
Gentle persuasion on the door to not damage the seals, gently gently... my wife primer the choke and - first crank, easy start!
Caution - fog warning.
Some gentle warming and a returned choke later, the 99 nosed its way neatly through traffic and fog to Kew Bridge. Wife reported it to be as test driven - responsive, light, keen and with a very tight gearbox and brake pedal. All lights worked. The only issue we encountered was a lack of hot air for the 'vents', but thankfully plenty of hot air (delivered within a minute, thank the trolls) for the 'dash' and feet. As a small car with a seemingly thermonuclear heater, we were toasty in no time. The rear defrosted in doublequick time thanks to a duct running through the floorpan. Lovely stuff!
At Brentford, the usual eclectic mix of classics, supercars, 80s brilliance and social media types abound. Excellent coffee and food, mind.
Merlin's wheels..
I love this Riviera, especially in white...
Oh, and this old thing...
Great crowd, 99 got a fair bit of attention and wife was instantly awake chatting with the attendees and hearing their stories of 99 Turbos, parent's cars and rallies...
We took the long route home through Richmond park, and I have to say it really is perfect for inner city - 4 speed box fine at 20 or 30, suspension really, really supple and ignorant of road condition, speedbumps zero issue and the size is brilliant. Also, everyone lets it out at junctions.
Spinakerr said:
Sunday morning - a strong frost and clear sky made it the perfect wintery environ for our first little outing as the new owners - to Duke of London COffee & Cake down in Brentford. I've been attending these for many years across various sites, and - just like PH - its the variety and opennes that brings us back.
Naturally, the car was frozen solid.
Now we're back to the proper classic motoring experience - hot cloth on the locks to warm up the barrel...
We.. ahem... managed without the boot...
Gentle persuasion on the door to not damage the seals, gently gently... my wife primer the choke and - first crank, easy start!
Caution - fog warning.
Some gentle warming and a returned choke later, the 99 nosed its way neatly through traffic and fog to Kew Bridge. Wife reported it to be as test driven - responsive, light, keen and with a very tight gearbox and brake pedal. All lights worked. The only issue we encountered was a lack of hot air for the 'vents', but thankfully plenty of hot air (delivered within a minute, thank the trolls) for the 'dash' and feet. As a small car with a seemingly thermonuclear heater, we were toasty in no time. The rear defrosted in doublequick time thanks to a duct running through the floorpan. Lovely stuff!
At Brentford, the usual eclectic mix of classics, supercars, 80s brilliance and social media types abound. Excellent coffee and food, mind.
Merlin's wheels..
I love this Riviera, especially in white...
Oh, and this old thing...
Great crowd, 99 got a fair bit of attention and wife was instantly awake chatting with the attendees and hearing their stories of 99 Turbos, parent's cars and rallies...
We took the long route home through Richmond park, and I have to say it really is perfect for inner city - 4 speed box fine at 20 or 30, suspension really, really supple and ignorant of road condition, speedbumps zero issue and the size is brilliant. Also, everyone lets it out at junctions.
Ooh, that meetup looks interesting. The late Russel Bulgin one wrote (in a review of the 205T16) that you could tell you were getting old when you were asked to review a car for a classic car magazine that you'd first reviewed when new. I feel that a little looking at some of the cars there - fond memories of long and/or very fast runs in a CX, a 200 quattro (not to mention endless Saabs) back when they were "moderns."Naturally, the car was frozen solid.
Now we're back to the proper classic motoring experience - hot cloth on the locks to warm up the barrel...
We.. ahem... managed without the boot...
Gentle persuasion on the door to not damage the seals, gently gently... my wife primer the choke and - first crank, easy start!
Caution - fog warning.
Some gentle warming and a returned choke later, the 99 nosed its way neatly through traffic and fog to Kew Bridge. Wife reported it to be as test driven - responsive, light, keen and with a very tight gearbox and brake pedal. All lights worked. The only issue we encountered was a lack of hot air for the 'vents', but thankfully plenty of hot air (delivered within a minute, thank the trolls) for the 'dash' and feet. As a small car with a seemingly thermonuclear heater, we were toasty in no time. The rear defrosted in doublequick time thanks to a duct running through the floorpan. Lovely stuff!
At Brentford, the usual eclectic mix of classics, supercars, 80s brilliance and social media types abound. Excellent coffee and food, mind.
Merlin's wheels..
I love this Riviera, especially in white...
Oh, and this old thing...
Great crowd, 99 got a fair bit of attention and wife was instantly awake chatting with the attendees and hearing their stories of 99 Turbos, parent's cars and rallies...
We took the long route home through Richmond park, and I have to say it really is perfect for inner city - 4 speed box fine at 20 or 30, suspension really, really supple and ignorant of road condition, speedbumps zero issue and the size is brilliant. Also, everyone lets it out at junctions.
Come to think of it, I'd have that 200 quattro tomorrow at the right price
Great shots. I'd forgotten the early 99s had those squidgy door push-buttons.
finlo said:
My parents have one of those languishing in their drive that my son keeps trying to convince them to allow him to restore.As regards the estates, there are the avants (estates) in general; then there's the 200 quattro avant, which was not far off an urQuattro in a more voluminous dress and more comfortable shoes. A bit more weight transfer to manage, but still a considerable weapon on a country road.
99t said:
FYI - some 72-74 brake spares have just been listed in the classifieds on UKS - might not need them now but they would be tricky to find if you need them in a hurry later...
No affiliation etc..
Thanks - actually the last owner did one job thoroughly and that was refurbish most of the brakign system. I do need sto start building the cache though - apprecite the note and I will be getting on UKS.No affiliation etc..
Some little tweaks initiated - first up, I sourced two headrests, one from eBay and a matching one, fortunately, from a 96 breaker in the Saab club. The original 'blank' for the headrest slots, as they were an option on the lowly L, were removed, 50 year old plastic taken off and replaced with the freshly cleaned rests. I know these are not exactly beautiful, but my wife is keen on Saab's afety innovations, and they have a certain Clockwork Orange aesthetic that is unique.
After our Sunday excursion I noticed a small trickly of water - it looks like the radiator has rising damp. Wither the drain plug is off or the radiator itself is uncored. I will be taking no chances and ordering a replacement, along with the other bits of the cooling system that need a refresh.
The windscreen washer pump, a VDO item, did not work and a quick voltage meter gymnastic stretch allowed me to confirm 12V was being supplied correctly. The pump I removed int he time honoured fashion that inclusing jabbing biros down hoses.
It's toast. I have ordered a similar article at a princely £25 and await its delivery.
Hopefully good weatehr this weekend for more tinkering and inspections...
Edited by Spinakerr on Friday 27th January 21:05
Yes its pretty much everything exempt. A key reason for purchase.
I love this initial stage of car ownership - buying all the service parts, reading manual, speaking with specialists and checking the forums for the 'common problems' and upgraded additions. This week I order a fair amount of bits to keep me busy at the weekend, and got stuck in with a minor service.
First though, it had to earn its keep with a dump run. My local dump is in the ULEZ, and I mean 'just in the ULEZ' - by about 50 metres! This meant we had a backlog of stuff - the boot was wonderfully capacious for such a small car.
I thought the spare wheel would be an annoyance but really it didn't get in the way. Naturally, once I parked up and started unloading somebody wanted to tell me about a 99 Turbo they used to own...
This is pretty much what my ideal Saturday looks like:
I started to tear down the air box and make a note of hoses, wires and connectors not looking up to standard. Air filter looks... miserable.
Sadly the filter I had been sold was mislabelled, and was for a 16V. I'll keep it for the T16. Strike one for the day.
Expansion tank bleeder was truly aged and for soem reason feeding into a suspension strut to... make it rust faster? I replaced this with some spare silicone hose in a longer length so it drains probperly into the sheel arch, not vital structural areas...
Crankcase breather hose had been secured too close to th carb outlet and was chaffing through. Repositioning was easy. as the airbox rotates on a collar.
Airbox truly filthy. Cleaned and lubricated the Summer/Winter flappage contraption that takes hot air from manifold area or direct cold air.
Summer:
Winter:
I see a carb rebuild in my future...
Tank to fuelpump hose was badly pinched and cracked, not visible from a normal top inspection...
...and also at the engine inlet...
It was stamped 1996, and was crumblier than a forgotten Tracker bar in a backpack after a hike. I quickly replaced it with some new E10 rated 6mm hose:
With the airbox and assembly out it was a good time to access the oil filter, and of course change the oil.
I double checked the handbook having read a few stories of people accidentally draining the gearbox...
At with the 900, no axle stands required, 19mm socket (far more sensible than a 13mm one!), easy.
A fair bit of oil under there. The stuff that came out was miserable but I have seen worse. If I had to guess, I would have said it was 5w30 as it seemed thin.
If only Saab had kept it this accessible in the H series and Turbo engines...
Same filter as the 900, so had a spare on the shelf to replace the rusty item:
3.5 litres of Millers 10w40 in and we're set. Following the clean the last weekend, the main weeps are at a corner of the rocker cover and the oil dipstick pipe. An O ring and a gasket may seal this engine up if my luck holds!
Next up - the washer pump. A bracket attaches the pump to the water bottle, but I'm no Project Binky and so I'll reuse the old one.
Favourite tool deployed, the finger sander:
I was losing the light now, and judged a disassebly of the brand new pump to attempt to replace it with a hastily bilt hambered uneven wobbly plate may jeapordise its factory watertighticity. I therefore cable tied it.
New clear washer tubing throughout (the original had turned solid and brittle), and a quick scrub of the washer bottle - done. An MOT worthy fix. Probably.
Finally, as night crawled in I replaced the perforated ducting for the hot air intake.
The ducting, 55mm from Gates, was not the right imperial size, or something, and put up a fight in only the way flimsy aluminium annoyances can. To be upgrades, but for the moment its in and looks shiny with no holes.
A true measure of a day's success - I took the car out to pick up food for dinner. The oil may need another change - I'm a firm believer in two changes sharpish on any new car - and maybe on to 20w50 given the age of the engine. No issues on the run, and joy of unbridled joys the washer jet worked perfectly!
The night panel, in all its simplistic glory:
Detail note - the rocker switches are not lit internally, they instead have a spotlight from above. Wonderful!
I love this initial stage of car ownership - buying all the service parts, reading manual, speaking with specialists and checking the forums for the 'common problems' and upgraded additions. This week I order a fair amount of bits to keep me busy at the weekend, and got stuck in with a minor service.
First though, it had to earn its keep with a dump run. My local dump is in the ULEZ, and I mean 'just in the ULEZ' - by about 50 metres! This meant we had a backlog of stuff - the boot was wonderfully capacious for such a small car.
I thought the spare wheel would be an annoyance but really it didn't get in the way. Naturally, once I parked up and started unloading somebody wanted to tell me about a 99 Turbo they used to own...
This is pretty much what my ideal Saturday looks like:
I started to tear down the air box and make a note of hoses, wires and connectors not looking up to standard. Air filter looks... miserable.
Sadly the filter I had been sold was mislabelled, and was for a 16V. I'll keep it for the T16. Strike one for the day.
Expansion tank bleeder was truly aged and for soem reason feeding into a suspension strut to... make it rust faster? I replaced this with some spare silicone hose in a longer length so it drains probperly into the sheel arch, not vital structural areas...
Crankcase breather hose had been secured too close to th carb outlet and was chaffing through. Repositioning was easy. as the airbox rotates on a collar.
Airbox truly filthy. Cleaned and lubricated the Summer/Winter flappage contraption that takes hot air from manifold area or direct cold air.
Summer:
Winter:
I see a carb rebuild in my future...
Tank to fuelpump hose was badly pinched and cracked, not visible from a normal top inspection...
...and also at the engine inlet...
It was stamped 1996, and was crumblier than a forgotten Tracker bar in a backpack after a hike. I quickly replaced it with some new E10 rated 6mm hose:
With the airbox and assembly out it was a good time to access the oil filter, and of course change the oil.
I double checked the handbook having read a few stories of people accidentally draining the gearbox...
At with the 900, no axle stands required, 19mm socket (far more sensible than a 13mm one!), easy.
A fair bit of oil under there. The stuff that came out was miserable but I have seen worse. If I had to guess, I would have said it was 5w30 as it seemed thin.
If only Saab had kept it this accessible in the H series and Turbo engines...
Same filter as the 900, so had a spare on the shelf to replace the rusty item:
3.5 litres of Millers 10w40 in and we're set. Following the clean the last weekend, the main weeps are at a corner of the rocker cover and the oil dipstick pipe. An O ring and a gasket may seal this engine up if my luck holds!
Next up - the washer pump. A bracket attaches the pump to the water bottle, but I'm no Project Binky and so I'll reuse the old one.
Favourite tool deployed, the finger sander:
I was losing the light now, and judged a disassebly of the brand new pump to attempt to replace it with a hastily bilt hambered uneven wobbly plate may jeapordise its factory watertighticity. I therefore cable tied it.
New clear washer tubing throughout (the original had turned solid and brittle), and a quick scrub of the washer bottle - done. An MOT worthy fix. Probably.
Finally, as night crawled in I replaced the perforated ducting for the hot air intake.
The ducting, 55mm from Gates, was not the right imperial size, or something, and put up a fight in only the way flimsy aluminium annoyances can. To be upgrades, but for the moment its in and looks shiny with no holes.
A true measure of a day's success - I took the car out to pick up food for dinner. The oil may need another change - I'm a firm believer in two changes sharpish on any new car - and maybe on to 20w50 given the age of the engine. No issues on the run, and joy of unbridled joys the washer jet worked perfectly!
The night panel, in all its simplistic glory:
Detail note - the rocker switches are not lit internally, they instead have a spotlight from above. Wonderful!
Edited by Spinakerr on Sunday 29th January 11:16
Edited by Spinakerr on Sunday 29th January 11:20
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