2013 Ferrari FF
Discussion
skwdenyer said:
Fonzey said:
skwdenyer said:
Well done for perseverance! Purely out of interest, if you end up with a not-totally-knackered take-off bolt you're not using, I'd be intrigued to take a look at one 
It's the least I can do, DM me your address 
MDifficult said:
skwdenyer said:
Fonzey said:
skwdenyer said:
Well done for perseverance! Purely out of interest, if you end up with a not-totally-knackered take-off bolt you're not using, I'd be intrigued to take a look at one
It's the least I can do, DM me your address 
wolfracesonic said:
MDifficult said:
skwdenyer said:
Fonzey said:
skwdenyer said:
Well done for perseverance! Purely out of interest, if you end up with a not-totally-knackered take-off bolt you're not using, I'd be intrigued to take a look at one
It's the least I can do, DM me your address No, I expect you to snap...
iphonedyou said:
Tango13 said:
Do you expect me to torque?
No, I expect you to snap...
No, I expect you to snap...
We were discussing the bolts at work earlier and we think £26~30ea for 40off is about right to make them properly.
Making the bolt blank is the relatively cheap and easy bit, it's the subcontracting where the costs lay, a thread like that would need to be rolled not cut but rolling a long thread requires specialist machinery, also heat treatment and surface treatment soon add up along with all the courier costs etc so well done to the OP for managing to get them for nothing
Been a while since an update, mainly as there's little to report - but car has been getting plenty of use!
I have however been trying, and failing to track down an annoying little noise coming from the NSR of the car. I referenced it in an earlier post, but as a reminder I'm fairly sure it's been there since first buying the car. It is a gentle "chuffing" sound which speeds up and slows down with wheelspeed, and is independent of RPM (happens in neutral at 80mph) and applying the brakes softly or harshly does not influence it. Lateral load doesn't change it, nor does accel vs decel.
I reported it to Ferrari when it went in for service, and even took a technician out to demonstrate it - but Leeds 9am city centre traffic really didn't allow me to get up to speed and as a result we failed miserably in replicating it. Below 25-30mph it's inaudible, with the windows down it's inaudible. It's loudest/most annoying when cruising at motorway speed. It's really not that intrusive though, the missus thought it was in my head until I really made her concentrate on it...
The list of things I've done/checked so far:
Both rear wheels off and everything inspected, multiple times:
Lots and lots of missing liner clips and undertray fixings replaced or repaired;
Rear discs off, and handbrake shoes inspected.
There's definitely constant contact here, but I'm not sure how much is normal.
Floors off:
Rivnuts replaced for some dodgy floor fixings:
Found a heatshield for the propshaft which was loose. Replaced rivets on bracket:
Got distracted somewhere and swapped wiper blades;
I'm leaning on it being one of two things:
1) NSR Handbrake shoe dragging too much on disc. If this were a proper car, I'd rule this out by tweaking the handbrake on one click at speed. Not sure that's a great idea with an EPB though :/ I did back off the adjuster a bit, but it didn't make much difference. Maybe I should back it off more - or just take the shoes out and go for a drive (?)
2) Something to do with the wheel or tyre. I'm fairly sure this was happening on the old wonky tyres, maybe there's an issue with the wheel that wasn't picked up during the refurb. Seems unlikely, but if I could stumble across somebody in North Yorks with a set of spare winter/track wheels and tyres... there would definitely be some beer tokens available to help me rule that out.
Aside from that, I'm open to suggestions. Rear pads are on the list to be done soon - but I can't see it being those, as applying the brakes doesn't alter the sound.
It's also difficult to really check the rear wheels because it's a bit awkward to get the car in neutral when parked, but also even when in neutra there's still plenty of drag/noise associated to the driveshafts so I can't just spin a wheel by hand and check for sound. I'm considering removing the hub nut, loosening the various suspension links and popping the hub off the driveshaft for a bit so I can give everything a good twirl around.
Despite putting in considerable effort here, it's not spoiling the car for me - it still drives great, no vibrations, tracks straight and does everything it's supposed to.
Recent highlight being a trip up the Alston road across the Pennines. A favourite of mine and last visited on the 10 hour epic trip bringing the 2-Eleven back from Scotland. We stayed for a night at High Force Hotel, was supposed to be for star gazing but it was cloudy as hell - so just a night of food and drink followed by a run up and down the road with practically zero traffic the following morning.
The FF loved the damp/mixed conditions. Even driving at 6 tenths it was just flying across the country and echo'ing off the valley at every opportunity. Loads of front end grip in the damp, enough rear end wiggles to make it look like I was at least trying a bit. Even the missus got into it.
Got some decisions to make now, do I take it off road for winter? Warranty expires in Nov, do I extend or roll the dice? Can I delay renewal till March/April if I do decide to SORN? Many questions.
I have however been trying, and failing to track down an annoying little noise coming from the NSR of the car. I referenced it in an earlier post, but as a reminder I'm fairly sure it's been there since first buying the car. It is a gentle "chuffing" sound which speeds up and slows down with wheelspeed, and is independent of RPM (happens in neutral at 80mph) and applying the brakes softly or harshly does not influence it. Lateral load doesn't change it, nor does accel vs decel.
I reported it to Ferrari when it went in for service, and even took a technician out to demonstrate it - but Leeds 9am city centre traffic really didn't allow me to get up to speed and as a result we failed miserably in replicating it. Below 25-30mph it's inaudible, with the windows down it's inaudible. It's loudest/most annoying when cruising at motorway speed. It's really not that intrusive though, the missus thought it was in my head until I really made her concentrate on it...
The list of things I've done/checked so far:
Both rear wheels off and everything inspected, multiple times:
Lots and lots of missing liner clips and undertray fixings replaced or repaired;
Rear discs off, and handbrake shoes inspected.
There's definitely constant contact here, but I'm not sure how much is normal.
Floors off:
Rivnuts replaced for some dodgy floor fixings:
Found a heatshield for the propshaft which was loose. Replaced rivets on bracket:
Got distracted somewhere and swapped wiper blades;
I'm leaning on it being one of two things:
1) NSR Handbrake shoe dragging too much on disc. If this were a proper car, I'd rule this out by tweaking the handbrake on one click at speed. Not sure that's a great idea with an EPB though :/ I did back off the adjuster a bit, but it didn't make much difference. Maybe I should back it off more - or just take the shoes out and go for a drive (?)
2) Something to do with the wheel or tyre. I'm fairly sure this was happening on the old wonky tyres, maybe there's an issue with the wheel that wasn't picked up during the refurb. Seems unlikely, but if I could stumble across somebody in North Yorks with a set of spare winter/track wheels and tyres... there would definitely be some beer tokens available to help me rule that out.
Aside from that, I'm open to suggestions. Rear pads are on the list to be done soon - but I can't see it being those, as applying the brakes doesn't alter the sound.
It's also difficult to really check the rear wheels because it's a bit awkward to get the car in neutral when parked, but also even when in neutra there's still plenty of drag/noise associated to the driveshafts so I can't just spin a wheel by hand and check for sound. I'm considering removing the hub nut, loosening the various suspension links and popping the hub off the driveshaft for a bit so I can give everything a good twirl around.
Despite putting in considerable effort here, it's not spoiling the car for me - it still drives great, no vibrations, tracks straight and does everything it's supposed to.
Recent highlight being a trip up the Alston road across the Pennines. A favourite of mine and last visited on the 10 hour epic trip bringing the 2-Eleven back from Scotland. We stayed for a night at High Force Hotel, was supposed to be for star gazing but it was cloudy as hell - so just a night of food and drink followed by a run up and down the road with practically zero traffic the following morning.
The FF loved the damp/mixed conditions. Even driving at 6 tenths it was just flying across the country and echo'ing off the valley at every opportunity. Loads of front end grip in the damp, enough rear end wiggles to make it look like I was at least trying a bit. Even the missus got into it.
Got some decisions to make now, do I take it off road for winter? Warranty expires in Nov, do I extend or roll the dice? Can I delay renewal till March/April if I do decide to SORN? Many questions.
Regarding the disc bolts. Carefully inspect the mounting lugs on the disc when you go to replace them. The bolts corrode, swell up and crack the carbon mounting lugs. Unfortunately at that point the whole assembly is U/S.
The stainless spring plates are one time use, as are the nuts. Replacements are readily available for the H type bobbins e.g. https://trackformula.co.uk/product/brembo-h-type-b... but double check dimensions against what you have.
The stainless spring plates are one time use, as are the nuts. Replacements are readily available for the H type bobbins e.g. https://trackformula.co.uk/product/brembo-h-type-b... but double check dimensions against what you have.
mwstewart said:
Regarding the disc bolts. Carefully inspect the mounting lugs on the disc when you go to replace them. The bolts corrode, swell up and crack the carbon mounting lugs. Unfortunately at that point the whole assembly is U/S.
The stainless spring plates are one time use, as are the nuts. Replacements are readily available for the H type bobbins e.g. https://trackformula.co.uk/product/brembo-h-type-b... but double check dimensions against what you have.
Yeah I had a specialist inspect the discs themselves and we'd caught it early, luckily. I also have a replacement set of brembo fixings, both the k-nuts and the springs as you say are a much more standard offering, and readily available - it was just the bolts themselves. I've still not replaced any bolts btw, they're still sat waiting.The stainless spring plates are one time use, as are the nuts. Replacements are readily available for the H type bobbins e.g. https://trackformula.co.uk/product/brembo-h-type-b... but double check dimensions against what you have.
lifeboat22 said:
I'd be whipping those shoes out, they look like they're dragging
b14 said:
Yep my bet will be handbrake, although that would be the kind of sound that is most obvious at lower speeds, given that at high speeds there's no way you'd be able to discern the gap in each sound as the wheel rotates.
Yeah I tend to agree. The noise definitely fades above the NSL because the wheel rotation is so fast that it turns into one sound - plus other noises tend to overlap at around that time anyway. Though I stated it speeds up/slows down with wheelspeed - I've often thought that it's happening too infrequently to happen on EVERY spin of the wheel.... more like every 2 or 3 spins, but then I haven't really done the maths... they're big wheels afterall!
I tried adjusting the shoes once already, but I may have just not released them enough. The NSR disc was actually hard to remove with the EPB disengaged which tells you that it was definitely dragging too much - but after my adjustment it slid back on easily enough. Since it's a similar amount of effort, I might just remove the shoes completely next time and get the linkage off to inspect. Maybe go for a drive with nothing fitted and rule it out one way or the other.
I've never had a drum brake car before, so the basic mechanicing skills and adjustment judgement isn't something I have experience of. The adjustment screw and the linkage/lever are not THAT expensive from Ferrari, so maybe an opportunity to just throw cash at it too.
mwstewart said:
Regarding the disc bolts. Carefully inspect the mounting lugs on the disc when you go to replace them. The bolts corrode, swell up and crack the carbon mounting lugs. Unfortunately at that point the whole assembly is U/S
Helpful though this is, I can't be the only one on the thread having a chuckle at it, given the multiple pages of previous discussion and in-depth metallurgy lessons from skwdenyer back on pages 6 and 10! PurpleTurtle said:
mwstewart said:
Regarding the disc bolts. Carefully inspect the mounting lugs on the disc when you go to replace them. The bolts corrode, swell up and crack the carbon mounting lugs. Unfortunately at that point the whole assembly is U/S
Helpful though this is, I can't be the only one on the thread having a chuckle at it, given the multiple pages of previous discussion and in-depth metallurgy lessons from skwdenyer back on pages 6 and 10! 
PurpleTurtle said:
mwstewart said:
Regarding the disc bolts. Carefully inspect the mounting lugs on the disc when you go to replace them. The bolts corrode, swell up and crack the carbon mounting lugs. Unfortunately at that point the whole assembly is U/S
Helpful though this is, I can't be the only one on the thread having a chuckle at it, given the multiple pages of previous discussion and in-depth metallurgy lessons from skwdenyer back on pages 6 and 10! I have a similar noise on my V8 Vantage.
Been there ages.
Had it serviced and no finding the cause.
Different handbrake set up so have tried applying it but no different
Service guy wondered about a wheel bearing maybe. Could be,but it’s taking a long while to develop if correct
No one can hear it really,apart from me and the service guy.
I’m wondering if only came about when I went from P zero to PS4?
Been there ages.
Had it serviced and no finding the cause.
Different handbrake set up so have tried applying it but no different
Service guy wondered about a wheel bearing maybe. Could be,but it’s taking a long while to develop if correct
No one can hear it really,apart from me and the service guy.
I’m wondering if only came about when I went from P zero to PS4?
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