Project Ring-shed E36 325i

[joe_90]

V8mate said:

Have just read the whole thread.


bks.


Bought an E36 325i coupe last weekend with a view to turning it into a track car. I don't have one percent of sniff's technical abilities so the majority of the work will need to be 'contracted out'. I knew there was a lot to do, though maybe didn't realise quite how much. But the real revelation was the number of options available and, therefore, the number of opportunities for getting things right or wrong.

I thought I'd be on track within a month

you can do.. I did most of mine in a few days:
stripped, removed loads of wires, painted, new sunroof, plastic windows etc.

Its just the waiting for the suspension thats taking weeks is the problem I have the disks and pads and bushes just waiting to go on.. ..

[V8mate]

joe_90 said:

V8mate said:

Stuff about being a techo-cripple

I thought I'd be on track within a month

you can do.. I did most of mine in a few days:
stripped, removed loads of wires, painted, new sunroof, plastic windows etc.

Its just the waiting for the suspension thats taking weeks is the problem I have the disks and pads and bushes just waiting to go on.. ..

Cool. What year is your car? Is yours an M50 or M52?

What have you gone for in terms of brakes and suspension upgrades?

Is it a straightforward thing to upgrade to (late E36) M3 discs or is there a better route to improving braking?

Are you upgrading the brake hoses too? What oil have you opted for?

What did you consider when planning the suspension changes? The stuff in this thread about the (natural) setup of the M3 suspension was quite interesting, or are you going fully aftermarket?

Are you doing anything about fuel pump, water pump, hoses etc?

So many questions

[joe_90]

V8mate said:

joe_90 said:

V8mate said:

Stuff about being a techo-cripple

I thought I'd be on track within a month

you can do.. I did most of mine in a few days:
stripped, removed loads of wires, painted, new sunroof, plastic windows etc.

Its just the waiting for the suspension thats taking weeks is the problem I have the disks and pads and bushes just waiting to go on.. ..

Cool. What year is your car? Is yours an M50 or M52?

What have you gone for in terms of brakes and suspension upgrades?

Is it a straightforward thing to upgrade to (late E36) M3 discs or is there a better route to improving braking?

Are you upgrading the brake hoses too? What oil have you opted for?

What did you consider when planning the suspension changes? The stuff in this thread about the (natural) setup of the M3 suspension was quite interesting, or are you going fully aftermarket?

Are you doing anything about fuel pump, water pump, hoses etc?

So many questions

ripping all the stuff out and the useless wireing is easy, as is taking all the windows out etc.

Its a early car.. but it has the anti roll bars all round.

As for upgrades (we are keeping to a 2k budget)
Gaz coilovers + rose jointed top mounts (front and back).. its going to be track only so will be quite low, and too hard I suspect for the road. The rear springs are 5"
Uprated grooved disks and Ferodo Brake pads - DS2500 =(pads just on the fronts at the moment)
Set of BBS splitrims with tyres
Powerflex bushes for the front and rear swing arms
Removed the sunroof (that weights a ton) and put a metal plate over.
removed the seats, put some bucket in (had to fabricate the subframes) and attached the harnesses.

That is it at the moment.. just over 2K all in.

We will do the hose, but just putting better fluid in first off.
As for the rest of the engine.. not touching it.. its fine as it is (bar an oil change, just using the standard recommend oil)

its basically an empty shell with a few bits of dash in now.

I spoke to james at redish motorsport, and he is excellent http://www.redish-motorsport.com/index.html he help me out if I get stuck (i.e can I remove this wire) and showed me how to get teh bushes on correctly and ordered the correct springs due too the lightness of the car.. etc etc..

I have removed all the blanking pads from the front bumper to allow more air in also.. but nothing else.. it will be fine.

Edited by joe_90 on Wednesday 30th June 14:56

[sniff diesel]

V8mate said:

What have you gone for in terms of brakes and suspension upgrades?

Is it a straightforward thing to upgrade to (late E36) M3 discs or is there a better route to improving braking?

Are you upgrading the brake hoses too? What oil have you opted for?

What did you consider when planning the suspension changes? The stuff in this thread about the (natural) setup of the M3 suspension was quite interesting, or are you going fully aftermarket?

Are you doing anything about fuel pump, water pump, hoses etc?

So many questions

With yellowstuff pads and EBC grooved and drilled discs the car stops very well. M3 brakes require M3 hubs, but these are available for as little as £50 a pair.

Goodridge braided line kits are only £55 from GSF so worth doing too.

Lower the car so it sits 320mm from centre of the wheel to the bottom of the arch at the front, and 305mm at the rear. Any lower and the wishbone geometry goes out of range and makes the handling worse.

I went for the M3 EVO fuel pump as they a higher pressure (5 bar - standard pumps are 3.5 bar) not sure if this helps though. Water pump and hoses all standard.

[V8mate]

sniff diesel said:

V8mate said:

What have you gone for in terms of brakes and suspension upgrades?

Is it a straightforward thing to upgrade to (late E36) M3 discs or is there a better route to improving braking?

Are you upgrading the brake hoses too? What oil have you opted for?

What did you consider when planning the suspension changes? The stuff in this thread about the (natural) setup of the M3 suspension was quite interesting, or are you going fully aftermarket?

Are you doing anything about fuel pump, water pump, hoses etc?

So many questions

With yellowstuff pads and EBC grooved and drilled discs the car stops very well. M3 brakes require M3 hubs, but these are available for as little as £50 a pair.

Goodridge braided line kits are only £55 from GSF so worth doing too.

Lower the car so it sits 320mm from centre of the wheel to the bottom of the arch at the front, and 305mm at the rear. Any lower and the wishbone geometry goes out of range and makes the handling worse.

I went for the M3 EVO fuel pump as they a higher pressure (5 bar - standard pumps are 3.5 bar) not sure if this helps though. Water pump and hoses all standard.

Brilliant. Thanks. Do you have a recommendation for suspension supplier?

[teabagger]

sniff diesel said:

V8mate said:

What have you gone for in terms of brakes and suspension upgrades?

Is it a straightforward thing to upgrade to (late E36) M3 discs or is there a better route to improving braking?

Are you upgrading the brake hoses too? What oil have you opted for?

What did you consider when planning the suspension changes? The stuff in this thread about the (natural) setup of the M3 suspension was quite interesting, or are you going fully aftermarket?

Are you doing anything about fuel pump, water pump, hoses etc?

So many questions

With yellowstuff pads and EBC grooved and drilled discs the car stops very well. M3 brakes require M3 hubs, but these are available for as little as £50 a pair.

Goodridge braided line kits are only £55 from GSF so worth doing too.

Lower the car so it sits 320mm from centre of the wheel to the bottom of the arch at the front, and 305mm at the rear. Any lower and the wishbone geometry goes out of range and makes the handling worse.

I went for the M3 EVO fuel pump as they a higher pressure (5 bar - standard pumps are 3.5 bar) not sure if this helps though. Water pump and hoses all standard.

Hi Richard
Ive been throught the whole thread before but cant remember if you have done anything with the fuel tank.
In my evo, i used to get fuel starvation on long fast right handers with anything less than 1/3 of a tank. If you are running slicks, it may be an idea to look at this problem.

Are you still over at the nurburgring with us for the 23, 24, 25th july?
Which car are taking?

[joe_90]

V8mate said:

sniff diesel said:

V8mate said:

What have you gone for in terms of brakes and suspension upgrades?

Is it a straightforward thing to upgrade to (late E36) M3 discs or is there a better route to improving braking?

Are you upgrading the brake hoses too? What oil have you opted for?

What did you consider when planning the suspension changes? The stuff in this thread about the (natural) setup of the M3 suspension was quite interesting, or are you going fully aftermarket?

Are you doing anything about fuel pump, water pump, hoses etc?

So many questions

With yellowstuff pads and EBC grooved and drilled discs the car stops very well. M3 brakes require M3 hubs, but these are available for as little as £50 a pair.

Goodridge braided line kits are only £55 from GSF so worth doing too.

Lower the car so it sits 320mm from centre of the wheel to the bottom of the arch at the front, and 305mm at the rear. Any lower and the wishbone geometry goes out of range and makes the handling worse.

I went for the M3 EVO fuel pump as they a higher pressure (5 bar - standard pumps are 3.5 bar) not sure if this helps though. Water pump and hoses all standard.

Brilliant. Thanks. Do you have a recommendation for suspension supplier?

How much do you want to spend and do you want topmounts? and cross braces too?

Speak to James at redish, he can help too.. The reason i say that is because most off the shelf (even the more expensive ones) are really designed for std weight cars.. Hence why some cars look high on the back. James basically worked out the right size and 'weight' needed to make it handle right, and not bounce about all over the place at the back.. however on the gaz ones, i think the springs are only about £60 a set, so you can always change them if needs be.

Edited by joe_90 on Wednesday 30th June 20:29

[V8mate]

joe_90 said:

V8mate said:

sniff diesel said:

V8mate said:

What have you gone for in terms of brakes and suspension upgrades?

Is it a straightforward thing to upgrade to (late E36) M3 discs or is there a better route to improving braking?

Are you upgrading the brake hoses too? What oil have you opted for?

What did you consider when planning the suspension changes? The stuff in this thread about the (natural) setup of the M3 suspension was quite interesting, or are you going fully aftermarket?

Are you doing anything about fuel pump, water pump, hoses etc?

So many questions

With yellowstuff pads and EBC grooved and drilled discs the car stops very well. M3 brakes require M3 hubs, but these are available for as little as £50 a pair.

Goodridge braided line kits are only £55 from GSF so worth doing too.

Lower the car so it sits 320mm from centre of the wheel to the bottom of the arch at the front, and 305mm at the rear. Any lower and the wishbone geometry goes out of range and makes the handling worse.

I went for the M3 EVO fuel pump as they a higher pressure (5 bar - standard pumps are 3.5 bar) not sure if this helps though. Water pump and hoses all standard.

Brilliant. Thanks. Do you have a recommendation for suspension supplier?

How much do you want to spend and do you want topmounts? and cross braces too?

Speak to James at redish, he can help too.. The reason i say that is because most off the shelf (even the more expensive ones) are really designed for std weight cars.. Hence why some cars look high on the back. James basically worked out the right size and 'weight' needed to make it handle right, and not bounce about all over the place at the back.. however on the gaz ones, i think the springs are only about £60 a set, so you can always change them if needs be.

Edited by joe_90 on Wednesday 30th June 20:29

Dunno. Do I?

You're not bothering with a cage - is the loss/gain much? They seem to be £1,500-2,000 fitted which is a bit of a budget killer. I'd say that my budget for this year is probably £2k over the cost of the car itself. And seats are looking pretty pricey too; I wonder how often they end up in breeaker's yards?

If the cage is considered a 'must have', there's a 944 which has already had cage, racing seats and uprated suspension just come onto the market locally for under £2k. And I'll just sell the E36 on.

[therealpigdog]

V8mate said:

Have just read the whole thread.


bks.


Bought an E36 325i coupe last
weekend with a view to turning it into a track car. I don't have one percent of sniff's technical abilities so the majority of the work will need to be 'contracted out'. I knew there was a lot to do, though maybe didn't realise quite how much. But the real revelation was the number of options available and, therefore, the number of opportunities for getting things right or wrong.

I thought I'd be on track within a month

Just done the same and bought a 323. It's not going to have much done unless an idiot can do it but should be fun!

[V8mate]

therealpigdog said:

V8mate said:

Have just read the whole thread.


bks.


Bought an E36 325i coupe last
weekend with a view to turning it into a track car. I don't have one percent of sniff's technical abilities so the majority of the work will need to be 'contracted out'. I knew there was a lot to do, though maybe didn't realise quite how much. But the real revelation was the number of options available and, therefore, the number of opportunities for getting things right or wrong.

I thought I'd be on track within a month

Just done the same and bought a 323. It's not going to have much done unless an idiot can do it but should be fun!

Actually, I typoed. Mine's a 323i (2.5) too :-)

So the first mod needs to be the inlet manifold!

[therealpigdog]

My first mods will be to remove the half-leather interior (half leather, half gaffer tape), fix the bumper, and swap the godawful angel eyes for normal headlights.

Not much else planned other than to strip it as budget is minimal - that said, the bug will no doubt hit!

[joe_90]

V8mate said:

stuff..

I guess the cage adds more structural strength, but adds a lot of weight. I see no need for one at this point, they are nice 'bling' and look the balls, but i may get a half cage at some point.. No need to go for a full race spec one.

No needs for the cage really, unless you are going 'real' racing. For you money I would get:


Coilovers and topmounts.
Front strut
Seats buckets - (ebay) + harnesses
bushes front/back
Wheels (off ebay) no need for semi slicks yet...
Plastic windows (if a saloon)

a bit of cash left for all the other bits you may need: oil change, bits of metal for the sunroof/footwells etc..

That will come to about 2Kish

Thats all you need to go have loads of fun.

Edited by joe_90 on Thursday 1st July 08:26

[V8mate]

Thanks. Why do you only recommend plastic windows for a saloon? (mine's a coupe)


sniff: Mine has a solid (i.e. not glass) sunroof too. Is simply welding the sunroof itself closed sufficient for MSA regs?

[sundayjumper]

Hello all, just thought I'd pop my head in to say that I too have recently bought a cheap-ass E36 to use as some kind of fun / track toy

Here it is after adding an M3 bumper & mirrors, I have the rest of the bodykit still to go on. Wheels are temporarily borrowed from my other E36 until I can pick up another set for cheap.



(it's a 325i, BTW)

[joe_90]

V8mate said:

Thanks. Why do you only recommend plastic windows for a saloon? (mine's a coupe)


sniff: Mine has a solid (i.e. not glass) sunroof too. Is simply welding the sunroof itself closed sufficient for MSA regs?

The coupe has no frames on the doors, the saloon does.. So you can put plastic in it. With the coupe you will need specially made curved plastic, or special frames made up.

I just removed the sunroof and the 2 tonnes of crap that was under it, and then just pop riveted some sheet metal across the top. This is fine for tracks days etc.. You can of course rip the sunroof to bits, just to get the top sheet out and get someone to weld it in. (however it will have a 10mm gap where the rubber is, so they will need to put a few plates on. Then you can fill the gap with sealant etc.

Is this just a trackday 'fun' car, or you planning to go racing in it? Also road or trailered?

Edited by joe_90 on Thursday 1st July 20:38

[sniff diesel]

V8mate said:

Thanks. Why do you only recommend plastic windows for a saloon? (mine's a coupe)


sniff: Mine has a solid (i.e. not glass) sunroof too. Is simply welding the sunroof itself closed sufficient for MSA regs?

Coupes have frameless doors that make getting a seal with the rubbers difficult. On the saloon you have no such problems.

All E36 sunroofs are solid. Once you remove the seal you're left with a 5-6mm gap to fill which makes it difficult to weld in. Much easier (and still MSA approved) way to go is to rivet in a panel over the top.

ETA: I see Jo90 has already answered - I must read all the posts before replying!

Edited by sniff diesel on Friday 2nd July 11:26

[sniff diesel]

teabagger said:

Hi Richard
Ive been throught the whole thread before but cant remember if you have done anything with the fuel tank.
In my evo, i used to get fuel starvation on long fast right handers with anything less than 1/3 of a tank. If you are running slicks, it may be an idea to look at this problem.

Are you still over at the nurburgring with us for the 23, 24, 25th july?
Which car are taking?

Hi Kev, not done anything to the yet apart from add the EVO pump. I also get the fuel starvation mentioned, especially at Snetterton, so will look into the duel fuel pump setup, where you just replace the sender in the other side of the tank with a second pump.

That weekend is really busy with truck racing on at the GP track I believe, so we had trouble finding accommodation. We're actually over here at the moment, in the process of buying a house, will keep you posted.

[V8mate]

Thanks. I bought the car rather spontaneously so didn't stop to think about issues like the sunroof.

I'll start my own 'build thread' soon too; stop impinging on yours

[sniff diesel]

V8mate said:

You're not bothering with a cage - is the loss/gain much? They seem to be £1,500-2,000 fitted which is a bit of a budget killer. I'd say that my budget for this year is probably £2k over the cost of the car itself. And seats are looking pretty pricey too; I wonder how often they end up in breeaker's yards?

If the cage is considered a 'must have', there's a 944 which has already had cage, racing seats and uprated suspension just come onto the market locally for under £2k. And I'll just sell the E36 on.

The cage certainly does stiffen up the shell a lot so don't dismiss it entirely. Yes a top job from Custom cages will cost about £2k, but you can get a Sparco one like mine for about £650 from Deamon Tweaks, then even if you have to pay someone to weld it in it comes in at a lot less money. And most people know someone who can weld for them for mates rates.

[V8mate]

sniff diesel said:

V8mate said:

You're not bothering with a cage - is the loss/gain much? They seem to be £1,500-2,000 fitted which is a bit of a budget killer. I'd say that my budget for this year is probably £2k over the cost of the car itself. And seats are looking pretty pricey too; I wonder how often they end up in breeaker's yards?

If the cage is considered a 'must have', there's a 944 which has already had cage, racing seats and uprated suspension just come onto the market locally for under £2k. And I'll just sell the E36 on.

The cage certainly does stiffen up the shell a lot so don't dismiss it entirely. Yes a top job from Custom cages will cost about £2k, but you can get a Sparco one like mine for about £650 from Deamon Tweaks, then even if you have to pay someone to weld it in it comes in at a lot less money. And most people know someone who can weld for them for mates rates.

DT are quoting £900+VAT for an E36 cage