Papercup's RX-7
Discussion
ol' dirty said:
papercup said:
Altrezia said:
Can you use them daily?
Yes, there are many people who use them as daily drivers. Apart from the horror stories about engine rebuilds every five minutes, they are actually a reliable car with no real issues. 60k in standard trim?
How do they cope with upping the boost & other mods to fuelling?
Whats can the engine make owerwise- keeping it relitively reliable (i.e. not going to blow up after a years worth ofabuse)
It seems very hard to find an unmodified one for sale- so a little knowledge comes in handy!
How do they cope with upping the boost & other mods to fuelling?
Whats can the engine make owerwise- keeping it relitively reliable (i.e. not going to blow up after a years worth of
It seems very hard to find an unmodified one for sale- so a little knowledge comes in handy!
ol' dirty said:
60k in standard trim?
How do they cope with upping the boost & other mods to fuelling?
Whats can the engine make owerwise- keeping it relitively reliable (i.e. not going to blow up after a years worth ofabuse)
It seems very hard to find an unmodified one for sale- so a little knowledge comes in handy!
Not easy to answer really, as mine isn't standard. Its far from it...How do they cope with upping the boost & other mods to fuelling?
Whats can the engine make owerwise- keeping it relitively reliable (i.e. not going to blow up after a years worth of
It seems very hard to find an unmodified one for sale- so a little knowledge comes in handy!
Two ways to go really. Sticking with standard twin turbo setup. Change ECU, pipe, air filter, turn up boost, remap. The most you'll get is 320 horse i believe. Again, i am no expert here, this is just what i have gleaned from the forum so i'd point you there for honest answers from owners. A lot of people make the turbos boost together instead of sequentially. I have no idea what the above does to reliability. Not a huge amount, i believe. Thats the funny thing with the rotary. The amount of cars that popped at between 60 and 70 thousand miles on the forum is uncanny. But it affected the daily drivers, the pampered garage queens, the used-hard part-time track cars. Its almost a time limit with this engine, not a usage limit. So you mildly tune them, still get respectable power and a fast car due to the light weight, and not really affect what is the standard cars' poor engine life.
Then there is junking the standard twins and putting in a large single turbo, like mine. Uprated fueling, bigger injectors and secondary injectors as well. Open pipe up as much as you can (gets loud!). Open ports up a little (mine has a 'street port', like most around this power - still driveable). Bigger intercooler, increased cooling (heat is the enemy of the rotary). Mine's running 420 at the flywheel and around 400 is what people generally refer to as 'safe power' for a tuned rotary. More than that and you need to start strengthening things internally.
I've had mine for two years and done a lot of trackdays and racing. Hard use. I am over 10,000 miles on this engine. There are a lot of cars running the above sort of power. A guy i know drives to the 'ring 6-9 times a year, rags it round, comes home. He is somewhere between 20 and 30 thousand miles on that engine. I have been told to expect 20-odd.
I've had very little trouble, far less than i thought i would. Having listened to all the stories I've been waiting for it to blow up the whole time i have had it, to be honest. Us rotary oners have a fatalism different to other car owners.
You have to shop so carefully. See several. I did. When i found this one i bit the guy's hand off.
Edited by papercup on Wednesday 4th March 17:31
Today: Wheels in Motion. Geometry set-up.
Last year we got it close, though initial turn-in was a little understeery. Example; Goodwood, first corner. Turn in and you'd get understeer, then grip. A little unnerving. From that point on it was great; with a little throttle you could push the front, then with yet more the rear would start to squirm, then a little more still and you'd get controllable four-wheel-drift. Heavenly. But that initial bite is what i want, without that little understeery slide beforehand.
We also wanted more caster. We ran out of adjustment last year and couldn't get it as high as we wanted it. With the lower ride height this year we are hoping for more. Caster is steering weight and feel.
I wanted to know what camber it turned up with (if you remember last week's ride height drop had given lots of negative camber) as i didn't like it. It turned out to have just over 2 degrees negative. So we want to stay under than.
We are going to concentrate on that understeer by adding some toe at the front. Last year we ran none front or rear.
I've been studying this very informative post from a guy in the states: http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=723617
I've taken bits of what he says on board. I set my ride heights to 25 inches (from floor to top of wheelarch. Other settings he suggests:
Toe in front between a 1/16 and 1/8th inch
Toe in rear zero
Camber front and rear 1.2 degrees negative
Caster equal minimal
Zero rear thrust angle.
We've only really ignored him on the caster. Tony at Wheels in Motion (WIM) doesn't really understand why he says so, and it isn't explained brilliantly. We think more caster is good.
So, my car is set as:
rear camber 2 deg negative
front camber 1.5 deg negative
rear toe zero
front toe-in zero degrees, ten minutes - equal to about a 16th of an inch
caster 6.4 degrees
As usual; WIM are excellent. A place you can go to and truly discuss in detail corner weights, balance, geometry and a place where you can ask for the tiniest change in the way a car handles and they'll know not only what you mean but how to do it. Top marks.
Got home and went for a drive around the block. Ended up staying out for a while. Car seems very sure-footed and sharp at the front. Rear grip is good under power (but as always i can unstick it easily if i am careless with the throttle).
Castle Combe tomorrrow - we'll see what its like on track
Andy
Last year we got it close, though initial turn-in was a little understeery. Example; Goodwood, first corner. Turn in and you'd get understeer, then grip. A little unnerving. From that point on it was great; with a little throttle you could push the front, then with yet more the rear would start to squirm, then a little more still and you'd get controllable four-wheel-drift. Heavenly. But that initial bite is what i want, without that little understeery slide beforehand.
We also wanted more caster. We ran out of adjustment last year and couldn't get it as high as we wanted it. With the lower ride height this year we are hoping for more. Caster is steering weight and feel.
I wanted to know what camber it turned up with (if you remember last week's ride height drop had given lots of negative camber) as i didn't like it. It turned out to have just over 2 degrees negative. So we want to stay under than.
We are going to concentrate on that understeer by adding some toe at the front. Last year we ran none front or rear.
I've been studying this very informative post from a guy in the states: http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=723617
I've taken bits of what he says on board. I set my ride heights to 25 inches (from floor to top of wheelarch. Other settings he suggests:
Toe in front between a 1/16 and 1/8th inch
Toe in rear zero
Camber front and rear 1.2 degrees negative
Caster equal minimal
Zero rear thrust angle.
We've only really ignored him on the caster. Tony at Wheels in Motion (WIM) doesn't really understand why he says so, and it isn't explained brilliantly. We think more caster is good.
So, my car is set as:
rear camber 2 deg negative
front camber 1.5 deg negative
rear toe zero
front toe-in zero degrees, ten minutes - equal to about a 16th of an inch
caster 6.4 degrees
As usual; WIM are excellent. A place you can go to and truly discuss in detail corner weights, balance, geometry and a place where you can ask for the tiniest change in the way a car handles and they'll know not only what you mean but how to do it. Top marks.
Got home and went for a drive around the block. Ended up staying out for a while. Car seems very sure-footed and sharp at the front. Rear grip is good under power (but as always i can unstick it easily if i am careless with the throttle).
Castle Combe tomorrrow - we'll see what its like on track
Andy
Edited by papercup on Tuesday 10th March 15:18
Edited by papercup on Friday 27th March 17:55
Hi andy (Tony from FB5K),
Your car looks stunning and along with Jaik my main memory will be just how bloody quick that thing was up those mountains on the Millau run. Glad to hear you got the fuse problem sorted out as well - though it did do you one favour as it meant you could brush up on your language skills in the bar (Deux bierre anyone?)
Couple more pics of your car from the run of your interested;
When we stopped for lunch in the middle of no-where;
Halfway up the volcano at volvic;
Prett much the most common view I had of your car;
Snowy run down Mt Ventoux;
In case anyone was wandering what sort of madman would drive a car like this;
Your car looks stunning and along with Jaik my main memory will be just how bloody quick that thing was up those mountains on the Millau run. Glad to hear you got the fuse problem sorted out as well - though it did do you one favour as it meant you could brush up on your language skills in the bar (Deux bierre anyone?)
Couple more pics of your car from the run of your interested;
When we stopped for lunch in the middle of no-where;
Halfway up the volcano at volvic;
Prett much the most common view I had of your car;
Snowy run down Mt Ventoux;
In case anyone was wandering what sort of madman would drive a car like this;
jaik said:
Haha, excellent stuff Tony, I'd forgotten "deux bierre" 
You don't have any pics of my car, do you?
Hiya Jaik You don't have any pics of my car, do you?Edited by jaik on Saturday 7th March 19:48
, I'll briefly take Andys thread off topic in that case! I have a couple but not the best I'm afraid;Top of the mountains where Andys RX7 first blew the fuse;
Coming down Mt Ventoux;
Still coming down Ventoux;
Is this a typical MR2 owner????;
Vs a sensible RX7 owner;
And a strange Cappy owner;
I'll let the thread get back on topic now (sorry Andy)
rpla102 said:
Papercup, were you up at Castle Combe on Saturday (7th)? If it was, you were looking good, we were in the RS4!!
yeah, that was me I thought....ooh, an RS4 - MUST DESTROY!!!!
You weren't holding back though; that thing handles far better than a car that heavy should. Very composed. We were wetting ourselves watching you throw it through the chicanes.
That CSL was rapid as well.....
My top battle for closeness was with the R400. I can match one in a straight line but he brakes later than me. We were neck-and neck for about two laps. Top fun.
I won't mention that black and white widebody CSR260 with the sequential gearbox....he just came past and buggered off!
Disappointing day due to the lack of traffic really.....wasn't busy at all. A good shakedown for the car after the recent suspension tweaking though, I'm happy with the handling for the sprinting season.
I am at at Brands GP circuit on Friday; looking forward to that.
I have always wondered if a block heater or coolant heater meant for cold conditions to pre heat the engine before starting would help the Rx7 rotary engine, as they do say they reduce wear on the engine and it when you get in the car its like having a pre warmed up engine which i would think would help the rotary engine.
Great car by the way, i have always loved those RX7's.
Great car by the way, i have always loved those RX7's.
Top fun at Brand Hatch on Friday; the full GP circuit. Its spoilt me; i don't think i want to drive the Indy any more!
Interesting to note that while i have tuned out the initial understeer upon turn-in, i have lost that adjustability i had on the throttle.
The car is now much more like how it was when i first got it (old suspension and unknown set-up). It has that initial bite and turn-in again, but its more edgy and is harder to catch when it goes. You still have to provoke it to do so though, so its still very 'safe'.
With the previous set-up (last year's) it would initially understeer, then grip. With a light throttle you could push the front but as you fed in more throttle the rear would squirm and finally it would truly four-wheel-drift. A wonderful feeling. That is what has gone.
Not sure which i prefer. I didn't like that understeer at first, its unnerving at turn-in. But the adjustability on the throttle was great. But that turn-in bite is now fantastic. Mmmm.
All from a drop in ride-height and a little toe-in at the front. Amazing how you can change a car's behaviour with such small things.
Worth noting that it is now so low at the front that i catch the front bumper on the ramps of my trailer, my driveway, anything else thats not flat!
Its annoying, i had got used to, in the last year, being speed-bump safe. Now i am wearing the bumper away underneath! On a plus side, it does look really evil. Zooming along the M27 in the week, its amazing how people move over for it. Looking how it does, and so low, I think 'normal people' see it as a super car of some sort, and you get smiles and thumb-up, and the aforementioned moving out the way. Totally different to my daily-driver BMW...
Still running too much camber at the rear; the wear on the tyres obviously doesn't reach the outside edge. We left the camber untouched from last year (1.3 front, 2 rear) as i didn't want to change too many things at once so i truly understood the relationship between them all. So in a week or two i'll get it back to WIM to get the rear camber brough down to 1.3 to match the front. That should increase rear grip when cornering; its still very easy to unstick the rear with throttle, too easy i believe.
Andy
Interesting to note that while i have tuned out the initial understeer upon turn-in, i have lost that adjustability i had on the throttle.
The car is now much more like how it was when i first got it (old suspension and unknown set-up). It has that initial bite and turn-in again, but its more edgy and is harder to catch when it goes. You still have to provoke it to do so though, so its still very 'safe'.
With the previous set-up (last year's) it would initially understeer, then grip. With a light throttle you could push the front but as you fed in more throttle the rear would squirm and finally it would truly four-wheel-drift. A wonderful feeling. That is what has gone.
Not sure which i prefer. I didn't like that understeer at first, its unnerving at turn-in. But the adjustability on the throttle was great. But that turn-in bite is now fantastic. Mmmm.
All from a drop in ride-height and a little toe-in at the front. Amazing how you can change a car's behaviour with such small things.
Worth noting that it is now so low at the front that i catch the front bumper on the ramps of my trailer, my driveway, anything else thats not flat!
Its annoying, i had got used to, in the last year, being speed-bump safe. Now i am wearing the bumper away underneath! On a plus side, it does look really evil. Zooming along the M27 in the week, its amazing how people move over for it. Looking how it does, and so low, I think 'normal people' see it as a super car of some sort, and you get smiles and thumb-up, and the aforementioned moving out the way. Totally different to my daily-driver BMW...Still running too much camber at the rear; the wear on the tyres obviously doesn't reach the outside edge. We left the camber untouched from last year (1.3 front, 2 rear) as i didn't want to change too many things at once so i truly understood the relationship between them all. So in a week or two i'll get it back to WIM to get the rear camber brough down to 1.3 to match the front. That should increase rear grip when cornering; its still very easy to unstick the rear with throttle, too easy i believe.
Andy
declasm said:
Hey man - great thread, I love car blogs especially rx-7s.
We met at the sunday service last year and I had the other rex there. good to see your car is still going strong. I've finally got round to adding some performance to mine - getting de-catted and mapped next week.
Hi mate, yes i remember chatting with you. Good to see you've still got it and modifying sensibly. Too many people don't put enough into them and they slowly decline...hence all the munters about. Takes deep pockets though!We met at the sunday service last year and I had the other rex there. good to see your car is still going strong. I've finally got round to adding some performance to mine - getting de-catted and mapped next week.
First round of the All Circuit Sprint Championship was last weekend (not easter, the one before) and i won my class by about a second and a half from a very tidy Sierra with a normally-aspirated 2.3 YB.
As for handling...think i was wrong about the camber. I now have less at the rear (1.5 instead of 2 degrees) and i seem to have less grip. If anything its easier to drive; it 'goes' sooner and seems to be slightly easier to catch. Less nervous.
I really think i need to invest in one of the tyre temp thingies so i can check the temps across the tyre at three points when i come in.
Next round at Goodwood on the 24th
As for handling...think i was wrong about the camber. I now have less at the rear (1.5 instead of 2 degrees) and i seem to have less grip. If anything its easier to drive; it 'goes' sooner and seems to be slightly easier to catch. Less nervous.
I really think i need to invest in one of the tyre temp thingies so i can check the temps across the tyre at three points when i come in.
Next round at Goodwood on the 24th
papercup said:
PurelyRetro said:
Papercup, did you go to Lyddenhill racing circuit in the end?
If so, apologies for not making it.
yes, was just about to say 'yes, look, i said so above' but then realised i didn't put what circuit it was at!If so, apologies for not making it.
i am back there on the 9th May
Andy
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