RE: Phil Hill's Rover Mini Cooper

[davey l]

I have the same car though not as modified but am thinking of doing it but dont know where to start.theres only a stage 1 kit in it any ideas?

[Paul V]

Nice speck Mini, I had a 1380 with a 285 Piper cam, flowed 11 studded head etc. was very quick but a spark plug failed and took the engine with it. I just pick up a racing green as it had a TVR plate on it, so I’m now thinking of getting the left over bits a building another 1380.

[davey l]

quote:
Nice speck Mini, I had a 1380 with a 285 Piper cam, flowed 11 studded head etc. was very quick but a spark plug failed and took the engine with it. I just pick up a racing green as it had a TVR plate on it, so I’m now thinking of getting the left over bits a building another 1380.

Good work fella

[JoePhandango]

Oooof, had my head flowed once, most minty I can assure you.

[JoePhandango]

>> Edited by JoePhandango on Friday 29th March 11:33

[davey l]

quote:
Oooof, had my head flowed once, most minty I can assure you.

Sounds to me you've had it done more than once!

[phil hill]

Well, thanks for the positive comments guys !! I had loads of fun at Cadwell last week (Javalin Motorsport Trackday 28th March) and got some excellent comments in the paddock too. My tyres say I had a good time anyway . Always happy to help like-minded mini nuts with there projects. Davey L, suggest you look about for local clubs or speciallists, or can put you in touch with my man, Mike Barrett. Paul V, am interested in the Piper 285, how "cammy" was it in everyday use ?? The Kent 276 I have is bareable with 1.5 rockers, but only just......

[Paul V]

I found the Piper 285 a nice cam, I wasn’t running high lift rockers though as it was said to have 100bhp at the wheels so I couldn’t go more without some gearbox mods. A 276 with high lift is going to be very similar to a 285 without. I the car was great to drive even when running it in it was very quick, I was gutted when the engine went bang.

If anyone is looking to join a club in the southeast I will recommend the Southern Mini Owners Club you can go to www.smoc.co.uk

[phil hill]

Paul V,

100hp at the wheels sounds high, 100hp at the flywheel more likely. I seem to remember the 285 Magnum has better bottom end torque curve than the Kent 276, which is why I'm interested. Torque is what makes the car go at the end of the day. However for reference, mine makes a repeatable 80hp at the wheels, the spec is about 100hp at the fly, so guestimating the parasitic losses, it's about right. Mike uses the dyno featured in this month's Mini magazine in the Keith Calver tech feature. Mike has a wealth of data from it, from all sorts of vehicles, Jenson Intercepter to std Mini thou'. It does not have an over-run calculation so cannot give a flywheel figure, arguably the only "real" figure is "at the wheels" value anyway. Speaking *very* generally (you know what race guys are like about hp figures ) Miglia's make over 100hp at the wheels on this dyno.

Sometimes dyno operators "massage" the figures to give something the customer is expecting to hear....... if you know what I mean. Beware of high sounding figures, especially from vehicles featured in certain types of magazine.........

I know what you mean about being gutted after a failure, I had a crank break on me in the past. I'm philosophical about this sort of thing. It goes to show that even the best components can and do fail, especially if the power output is twice what it was designed for . Take heed all you would be modifiers out there !!

Phil.

[davey l]

quote:
Well, thanks for the positive comments guys !! I had loads of fun at Cadwell last week (Javalin Motorsport Trackday 28th March) and got some excellent comments in the paddock too. My tyres say I had a good time anyway . Always happy to help like-minded mini nuts with there projects. Davey L, suggest you look about for local clubs or speciallists, or can put you in touch with my man, Mike Barrett. Paul V, am interested in the Piper 285, how "cammy" was it in everyday use ?? The Kent 276 I have is bareable with 1.5 rockers, but only just......

Would love to join a club but unfortunatly I cant seem to find one in the south of Ireland and the only speciallists 'round here are the one that specialise in lightening your pockets and as for getting parts I have to look across the pond.It seems that if you drive a Mini in this country youre on your own as far as help or advice goes.

[Paul V]

The 1380 had a very nice spec head, 11.5:1 compression ratio, and decked block, 11 studded to hold it together etc, it was a well set up engine, I’ve had 80 bhp @ flywheel from a 1275 with only a few bolt on mods so a good spec 1380 should be able to make 90-100 at the wheels.

[phil hill]

quote:
The 1380 had a very nice spec head, 11.5:1 compression ratio, and decked block, 11 studded to hold it together etc, it was a well set up engine, I’ve had 80 bhp @ flywheel from a 1275 with only a few bolt on mods so a good spec 1380 should be able to make 90-100 at the wheels.

Nice sounding spec, big compression for street fuel though . Checked out "the big yellow book" yesterday, Vizzard had a 1400 motor with a 286 making about 115hp at the fly, so doing the losses makes over 90 at the wheels.

Stock MG metro/late Cooper is rated at about 70-72hp flywheel, these usually make high 40's at the wheels on this dyno. So 80 odd at the fly is a nice 1275 too !! Most "S-pack" conversions quote 86hp.

I use 12-16hp lost through the trans depending on straightcut or helical, a couple for the drop gears, 4-7 through tyres depending how wide, and 2-5 correction for the day (this dyno doesn't automatically correct for ambient). Not hugely scientific, but better than deducting a percentage of the total. At the end of the day the chassis dyno is a tool to simulate load conditions in a safe repeatable way to allow the dyno operator to set your motor up correctly. This is the only reliable way to set up a modified motor.

As I work with gas turbines these automotive hp's are really small beer, the biggest turbine we make here is 18,000hp.......... and that's still small !!

[Paul V]

It was a bit high compression and also left no room for error, that’s why when it went it messed everything up. I had to run super plus an octane boost . once had to siphon my tank to help out another mini who ran out of petrol, he got out at the next petrol station saying what the hell was it.

Mmm 18000hp fit in a mini?

[phil hill]

quote:
It was a bit high compression and also left no room for error, that’s why when it went it messed everything up. I had to run super plus an octane boost . once had to siphon my tank to help out another mini who ran out of petrol, he got out at the next petrol station saying what the hell was it.

Mmm 18000hp fit in a mini?

Unfortunately not, way too big and heavy, but smaller turbines have been used, check this guy out : www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~spurr/kitten.htm

Can understand the need for octane boost, did you're plug melt by any chance ?? I have been running Optimax lately. Don't know if it *really* makes any difference........

[Paul V]

Over heated the plug as it had a protruding electrode, the electrode came off, stuck in the valve which bent, it went down bent and hit the piston and smashed the head and piston to bits, wrecked the bore then all the bits fell into the gearbox. BUGGER!!!

I’m considering getting another built but will have to do some saving.

[chris.mapey]

I have been running Optimax recently in my Min, 1310 Downton (84 bhp at the wheels) and I can say without a shadow of a doubt, scientifically speaking, I THINK it makes my car run smoother (no embarassing running on) and it comes recommended from Peter Baldwin who has been reliably told that it has the highest octane commercially available. Hope this helps??!!

See also this month's EVO.

Chris

[phil hill]

We've been running Optimax in the Min and the Subaru for a while now too. I've also done a couple of track days in the Min on Optimax. I think the "performance" benifits are easier to quantify on an injected engine with knock-sensors, as the ECU will play with the ignition slightly and the fuel doesn't soak into the burnt deposits on the back of the inlet valve before atomising. Not scientific, just observation !

However, if it keeps things clean (as seen in the EVO report) less laquer in carbs, less carbon in the head, and higher octain to boot, it can't be bad. Pity the price seems to be creeping up though.......