Papercup's V8 RX7
Discussion
Well, the clutch just let go during mapping. Ho hum. Both the mapper and Craig think this is great news ('it proves its making good power!' said Craig) but its a minor annoyance for me as it basically means the car is off up to Birmingham again.
So, production LS7 clutch is on its way to Craig's from Monkfish. £643 + £35 delivery (overnight, saturday). Ouch. Plus fitting.
Moral to this story; just put a clutch in it if you are straying a decent amount above standard power. Its easily done when the whole thing is in bits and will save money and time in the long run.
On a side note, the aircon, which we thought was leaking, is less cold today than it was yesterday (I told the mapper to leave it on to stress-test it). This proves the leak and the dye that Craig put in should show us where when its getting the clutch done. So it needed a return visit anyway.
Anyway, it stll drives OK normally and the mapping can be finished. Its only full-bore runs through the gears that show it up. I may drive it up there.
So, production LS7 clutch is on its way to Craig's from Monkfish. £643 + £35 delivery (overnight, saturday). Ouch. Plus fitting.
Moral to this story; just put a clutch in it if you are straying a decent amount above standard power. Its easily done when the whole thing is in bits and will save money and time in the long run.
On a side note, the aircon, which we thought was leaking, is less cold today than it was yesterday (I told the mapper to leave it on to stress-test it). This proves the leak and the dye that Craig put in should show us where when its getting the clutch done. So it needed a return visit anyway.
Anyway, it stll drives OK normally and the mapping can be finished. Its only full-bore runs through the gears that show it up. I may drive it up there.
papercup said:
Well, the clutch just let go during mapping. Ho hum. Both the mapper and Craig think this is great news ('it proves its making good power!' said Craig) but its a minor annoyance for me as it basically means the car is off up to Birmingham again.
So, production LS7 clutch is on its way to Craig's from Monkfish. £643 + £35 delivery (overnight, saturday). Ouch. Plus fitting.
Moral to this story; just put a clutch in it if you are straying a decent amount above standard power. Its easily done when the whole thing is in bits and will save money and time in the long run.
On a side note, the aircon, which we thought was leaking, is less cold today than it was yesterday (I told the mapper to leave it on to stress-test it). This proves the leak and the dye that Craig put in should show us where when its getting the clutch done. So it needed a return visit anyway.
Anyway, it stll drives OK normally and the mapping can be finished. Its only full-bore runs through the gears that show it up. I may drive it up there.
I feel for you dude, dont beat yourself up it's always easy with the benefit of hindsight to see these things!! Had a spell on race engines and you wouldn't believe some of the things that creep in from production parts only to go pop at the worst possible moment.So, production LS7 clutch is on its way to Craig's from Monkfish. £643 + £35 delivery (overnight, saturday). Ouch. Plus fitting.
Moral to this story; just put a clutch in it if you are straying a decent amount above standard power. Its easily done when the whole thing is in bits and will save money and time in the long run.
On a side note, the aircon, which we thought was leaking, is less cold today than it was yesterday (I told the mapper to leave it on to stress-test it). This proves the leak and the dye that Craig put in should show us where when its getting the clutch done. So it needed a return visit anyway.
Anyway, it stll drives OK normally and the mapping can be finished. Its only full-bore runs through the gears that show it up. I may drive it up there.
Get a video up, I am really interested in how this swap works as from where I am sitting it is the best of both worlds and a spiritual nod towards my dream car.
The execution of the install looks very clean and well thought out, the only thing letting it down for me is the gearbox mount, just not quite up to the standard of the rest of it Its immense 
Picked it up from Paul @ Wortec's house last night. £580 for mapping. Time for another costs update i think!
Cold start isn't great, and needs another tweak. I didn't realise cold start was so basic; its just a percentage of throttle. Of course he's only cold-started it twice so hasn't been able to turn it up high enough. So it starts but you need to keep your foot on the pedal for just a minute or it will conk out. It is literally a minute though, then its good as gold. I'll run into him again soon and he'll add a few points more throttle to it.
Battery seems to be coping. Tiny dry-cell thing from a Harley-Davidson. Left on an Optimate most of the time as a rotary and never been any trouble before. Let me find a pic:
There ya go. I'm amazed it even turns it over. It does have trouble, it turns over slowly but always fires and mapper thinks i will need to be changed. We'll see. It had no trouble starting the car over and over again at Craig's. Hot start is the killer and only time will tell.
Ticks over at 960 rpm and sounds quiet in the car; perfect. Then you put your foot down and it sounds like it will tear out your heart. When i got home my girlfriend said it was rattling the windows in the house when i reversed up the driveway. He he.
Drives very well; mapper echoes what the people that sold the cam to me said; this is as far as you would want to go on the road. I actually expected worse. Its very civilised.
To be honest I am having trouble assimilating it. I've never driven anything like this. It really is like a different car. I drove it home from Chichester in heavy rain, in the dark, on Toyo 888s. Not fun really. Will swap on the other wheels with the road tyres on today, and fit the passenger seat.
Surprising traction; i expected first gear to be worthless. I did had a moment in 2nd gear. In a straight line. Its got some torque. The most immediate thing is the torque. You can just leave it in 4th in built-up areas. It pulls happily from 500rpm. It ticks over at 960rpm! You can drive it without any throttle; just let the clutch out and keep changing gear. It does about 35mph in top gear at tickover. I went through Worthing on tickover, giggling.
Then you put your foot down. Oo-err. It does go. The weirdest thing is cruising in top gear and put your foot to the floor. It feels like a jackhammer, thump, thump thump. In lower gear its over too fast.
Anyway, too much typing, not enough experience. Off out to fit passenger seat, change wheels and drive into town to see a mate at his shop. Possible pictures to follow.
Andy
Picked it up from Paul @ Wortec's house last night. £580 for mapping. Time for another costs update i think!
Cold start isn't great, and needs another tweak. I didn't realise cold start was so basic; its just a percentage of throttle. Of course he's only cold-started it twice so hasn't been able to turn it up high enough. So it starts but you need to keep your foot on the pedal for just a minute or it will conk out. It is literally a minute though, then its good as gold. I'll run into him again soon and he'll add a few points more throttle to it.
Battery seems to be coping. Tiny dry-cell thing from a Harley-Davidson. Left on an Optimate most of the time as a rotary and never been any trouble before. Let me find a pic:
There ya go. I'm amazed it even turns it over. It does have trouble, it turns over slowly but always fires and mapper thinks i will need to be changed. We'll see. It had no trouble starting the car over and over again at Craig's. Hot start is the killer and only time will tell.
Ticks over at 960 rpm and sounds quiet in the car; perfect. Then you put your foot down and it sounds like it will tear out your heart. When i got home my girlfriend said it was rattling the windows in the house when i reversed up the driveway. He he.
Drives very well; mapper echoes what the people that sold the cam to me said; this is as far as you would want to go on the road. I actually expected worse. Its very civilised.
To be honest I am having trouble assimilating it. I've never driven anything like this. It really is like a different car. I drove it home from Chichester in heavy rain, in the dark, on Toyo 888s. Not fun really. Will swap on the other wheels with the road tyres on today, and fit the passenger seat.
Surprising traction; i expected first gear to be worthless. I did had a moment in 2nd gear. In a straight line. Its got some torque. The most immediate thing is the torque. You can just leave it in 4th in built-up areas. It pulls happily from 500rpm. It ticks over at 960rpm! You can drive it without any throttle; just let the clutch out and keep changing gear. It does about 35mph in top gear at tickover. I went through Worthing on tickover, giggling.
Then you put your foot down. Oo-err. It does go. The weirdest thing is cruising in top gear and put your foot to the floor. It feels like a jackhammer, thump, thump thump. In lower gear its over too fast.
Anyway, too much typing, not enough experience. Off out to fit passenger seat, change wheels and drive into town to see a mate at his shop. Possible pictures to follow.
Andy
Andy jotted down the numbers, i think it came out at around 1275 ish. Good balance front to back, only slightly more nose heavy, about 52/48%. I think he said about 60kg heavier than his single turbo setup before, about stock twin turbo weight but his figures need tweeking because he now has air con, which he didn't have before either. He also has stock seats in it now rather than the lighter recaro buckets he had before.
Andy, please butt in and correct my figures, i'm working from memory here!
N/S/R corner needs a bit of weight on it, but he has plans!
Tried hanging the back end out on a roundabout, but throttle modulation is a bit hard to do, needs a bit more of a progressive feel to the throttle pedal. Its a bit too sharp. Sort that then it'll be perfect for steering with the rear wheels
The front end feels very good still
Andy, please butt in and correct my figures, i'm working from memory here!
N/S/R corner needs a bit of weight on it, but he has plans!
Tried hanging the back end out on a roundabout, but throttle modulation is a bit hard to do, needs a bit more of a progressive feel to the throttle pedal. Its a bit too sharp. Sort that then it'll be perfect for steering with the rear wheels
The front end feels very good still
Left Front - 330.5kg
Right Front - 336.5kg
Left Rear - 296.5kg
Right Rear - 309kg
Total: 1272kg
Left 628kg - 49.3%
Front 667kg - 52.4%
Rear 606kg - 47.6%
Cross 633kg - 49.7%
Rear bite - 12.0
Weight is not an exact comparison; when i corner-weighted the rotary @ Re:Worx it had the Recaro SPG seats (4.5kg against the standard ones that are in now and have got to be 15kg each) and just under half a tank of fuel (against the 'just under three quarters' it had today). So.....10kg each seat and around 15 litres of fuel is about another 10kg or thereabouts.
Call it 30kg difference and we have a final figure of 1242kg. As a rotary it was 1186kg. So we've added around 60kg, or an 11-stone human, to the weight of the car. Not very much really is it?
I will have to dig out the original percentages and cross weights of the rotary corner-weighting. Fairly sure it was 50% side-to-side and 50% diagonal, and 51/49 front to rear. Will confirm later.
If so its a little more front heavy than it used to be, which is hardly surprising; the rotary was lower and completely behind the front suspension turrets and the V8....isn't. But it seems to handle; Max has two rotary RX7s and knows them well, and he was glowing when he got out from driving it. Very impressed. You could see the little cogs going round in his head.
I've done more miles in it today; I drove to Winchester (from Brighton) and back to see Max for the corner-weighting, and have just arrived in Birmingham to see Craig (the infamous Tinker-27 you see above) to have the LS7 clutch fitted tomorrow. I am starting to get used to the car now. Straightening the steering wheel made a big difference; its surprising how much it throws me to have the wheel at '2-o-clock' when going straight ahead. I've been pushing it harder through roundabouts and such today and am struggling to find a difference in the handling to how it was before. Its still sharp as you like. Maybe the track will show it up.
Max is right; the throttle pedal is way too sharp though, and wants turning down a bit in sensitivity terms. Very hard to modulate at low speed. The first inch of throttle is mental. The mapper said he could change it a bit; will have to get in touch. Fortunately he's not far from me in Chichester.
Air-con has given up completely now; not even worth turning it on any more. So it was leaking, and now its dead. The dye that Craig put in is evident in the engine bay so hopefully we can find the leak tomorrow and get it gassed up again. It needs it; its a hot car and driving it around in hot weather is uncomfortable. Its not as bad as when it was a rotary; then it used to get hot and smell of petrol and oil. This just gets hot and......gets hotter.
Got stuck in the usual traffic jam on the A27 in Arundel earlier and saw oil temps of 105c and water temps of 115c. Both Max and I think it will overheat on track. A re-think of the radiator set-up may be in order. More fans, different angle? We'll see - I'll discuss with Craig tomorrow.
Right Front - 336.5kg
Left Rear - 296.5kg
Right Rear - 309kg
Total: 1272kg
Left 628kg - 49.3%
Front 667kg - 52.4%
Rear 606kg - 47.6%
Cross 633kg - 49.7%
Rear bite - 12.0
Weight is not an exact comparison; when i corner-weighted the rotary @ Re:Worx it had the Recaro SPG seats (4.5kg against the standard ones that are in now and have got to be 15kg each) and just under half a tank of fuel (against the 'just under three quarters' it had today). So.....10kg each seat and around 15 litres of fuel is about another 10kg or thereabouts.
Call it 30kg difference and we have a final figure of 1242kg. As a rotary it was 1186kg. So we've added around 60kg, or an 11-stone human, to the weight of the car. Not very much really is it?
I will have to dig out the original percentages and cross weights of the rotary corner-weighting. Fairly sure it was 50% side-to-side and 50% diagonal, and 51/49 front to rear. Will confirm later.
If so its a little more front heavy than it used to be, which is hardly surprising; the rotary was lower and completely behind the front suspension turrets and the V8....isn't. But it seems to handle; Max has two rotary RX7s and knows them well, and he was glowing when he got out from driving it. Very impressed. You could see the little cogs going round in his head.
I've done more miles in it today; I drove to Winchester (from Brighton) and back to see Max for the corner-weighting, and have just arrived in Birmingham to see Craig (the infamous Tinker-27 you see above) to have the LS7 clutch fitted tomorrow. I am starting to get used to the car now. Straightening the steering wheel made a big difference; its surprising how much it throws me to have the wheel at '2-o-clock' when going straight ahead. I've been pushing it harder through roundabouts and such today and am struggling to find a difference in the handling to how it was before. Its still sharp as you like. Maybe the track will show it up.
Max is right; the throttle pedal is way too sharp though, and wants turning down a bit in sensitivity terms. Very hard to modulate at low speed. The first inch of throttle is mental. The mapper said he could change it a bit; will have to get in touch. Fortunately he's not far from me in Chichester.
Air-con has given up completely now; not even worth turning it on any more. So it was leaking, and now its dead. The dye that Craig put in is evident in the engine bay so hopefully we can find the leak tomorrow and get it gassed up again. It needs it; its a hot car and driving it around in hot weather is uncomfortable. Its not as bad as when it was a rotary; then it used to get hot and smell of petrol and oil. This just gets hot and......gets hotter.
Got stuck in the usual traffic jam on the A27 in Arundel earlier and saw oil temps of 105c and water temps of 115c. Both Max and I think it will overheat on track. A re-think of the radiator set-up may be in order. More fans, different angle? We'll see - I'll discuss with Craig tomorrow.
redvictor said:
nice conversion..
I can see why the engine water is getting hot. The radiator needs a duct and shroud so that you're always pulling cold air across the whole face of the radiator. As it is now the air will escape around and under it. Just a heads up.
To be fair, this was crawling at walking pace in heavy traffic; thats not really an air flow issue any more, its a fan issue.I can see why the engine water is getting hot. The radiator needs a duct and shroud so that you're always pulling cold air across the whole face of the radiator. As it is now the air will escape around and under it. Just a heads up.
Today the LS7 clutch has gone in and we've found the (two!) leaks in the air-con. Tightened up the pipes near the bulkhead will hopefully fix that one but the compressor itself, a second-hand item, has.....had a catastrophic failure and is dripping fluid everywhere. Bugger. Again, I had thought of reconditioning it before we even started but thought it would be OK. That will be that hindsight again, biting me in the arse.
So the compressor has come off to be reconditioned and we've blanked things off for the moment. Also, to test cooling options, we've rigged up the two air-con fans on the air-con rad to the aircon switch so I can manually turn those on. So next time I am in traffic and it heats up I can switch those on and see if it makes a difference. Then perhaps we can ad more fans to the radiator. Or we can rig those aircon fans into the main cooling circuit and when the rad fan comes on they come on, independent of the aircon, but they also come on with the aircon when its switched on. Options, options!
Oh, and the spending continues. The worst thing about this conversion is the gearbox. I had heard this. Most boxes are either vague or notchy. This is both. Notchy to engage, but the middle point, from neutral to each gear, is like porridge. Its a bit crap really, not in any way positive. I have little idea what gear is coming next. So i sat in Craig's car and he has a 'ripshifter' quickshift and its like night and day. Positive, direct, still notchy but I don't mind that if you know where the stick is going. £300 plus VAT. Christ. For a quickshifter? Oh well, ordered and will be fitted when the aircon pump comes back.
As will the Tein bonnet struts, nice pneumatic thingies, anodised green to match my Tein coilover tops (I am a tart, sad but true). So i regretfully say goodbye to me old bonnet stick, and its broken plastic clips, that has done me so proud. Goodbye old friend. £115.
As for the bonnet; it lifts behind the headlamps in a worrying manner. At 90mph its an inch clear of the wings. I've seen the results of a bonnet catch letting go, and Craig has an Aristo in has workshop right now that did just that. Its a mess. So sleek bonnet catches are going on as we speak, Craig swearing in the background. £30-odd i think. Those and the Tein struts are coming from Driftworks who've moved in next door to Craig a few months back. Do they come with a luminous yellow 'doriftu' sticker? Lets hope so
Andy
Edited by papercup on Monday 16th August 16:31
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