Rotrex powered R32

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Discussion

missing the VR6

2,318 posts

188 months

Monday 24th November 2014
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The car is awesome. Not sure adding DSG will make it better as a drivers car though. Certainly better day to day that's for sure.

StottyEvo

6,860 posts

162 months

Monday 24th November 2014
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You're insane! I love it biggrin

I'm not a fan of autoboxes but I'd love to see how this performs with the DSG, have you put a Racelogic box in and measured the performance? It would be interesting to see the performance figures before and after the DSG box install.

JonnyxM

185 posts

132 months

Monday 24th November 2014
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Epic just epic. Car is a credit to you.

Could I please get some more info on the little on board unit you built, I would like to look into something similar.

Written in C#, any API or wrappers. My C# isn't brilliant but this could be a good project!

Any good sources on the web?

Edited by JonnyxM on Monday 24th November 16:14

Blue32

Original Poster:

438 posts

168 months

Monday 24th November 2014
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StottyEvo said:
You're insane! I love it biggrin

I'm not a fan of autoboxes but I'd love to see how this performs with the DSG, have you put a Racelogic box in and measured the performance? It would be interesting to see the performance figures before and after the DSG box install.
Thankssmile Haven't measured the performance yet, but I do plan to try and get a before/after comparison.
Hopefully it should go something like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8OSUbBUBaE but with smoother gear changes if what I experienced in the S3 is anything to go by.

JonnyxM said:
Epic just epic. Car is a credit to you.

Could I please get some more info on the little on board unit you built, I would like to look into something similar.

Written in C#, any API or wrappers. My C# isn't brilliant but this could be a good project!

Any good sources on the web?

Edited by JonnyxM on Monday 24th November 16:14
My C is pretty poor, I think the Arduino code is loosely based on C (although most of the time I cant tell the difference between C and MSbasiclaugh) the Arduino forums http://forum.arduino.cc/ look to be pretty helpful, although I haven't had to ask any questions yet.
Most of the code I used was taken from the libraries which are supplied with the Arduino package. Additional libraries for things like the display can be downloaded and added.

This is the board I'm using http://arduino.cc/en/Main/ArduinoBoardMega2560

The adapter http://freematics.com/pages/products/arduino-obd-a...
freematics has a set of libraries for the interface which can be downloaded. I started with one of the examples from the page and just changed the PID value to get what I wanted.

JonnyxM

185 posts

132 months

Tuesday 25th November 2014
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Thanks, all very helpful.

Blue32

Original Poster:

438 posts

168 months

Friday 5th December 2014
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Got some more bits for project DSG

Coolant hose to gearbox oil cooler

Dealer wanted £81 for one, I found this one (new and unused) on German eBay for £31! Still need to get the return hose, might have to get it from VWfrown

Drive shafts & gear selector


1 box of car spaghetti (complete engine and dashboard loom from a V6 DSG TT)

The plan is to spend the Xmas break stripping the wires I need to make a “plug n play” loom to go in to mine.
According to the wiring diagrams the only difference between the R32 and TT is that Audi uses a red/yellow wire for power to the gearbox, whereas the Golf uses a red wire. Everything else is the same.

Most important bit, connector to gearbox


Still need to get:
MKIV R32 DSG Steering wheel (these appear to be quite rare)
Coolant return from gearbox oil cooler
Gear selector trim

C7 JFW

1,205 posts

218 months

Friday 5th December 2014
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This is really exciting. Does this go hand in hand with one of the Multi-function steering wheels that are also very rare on the mkiv golf?

mwstewart

7,553 posts

187 months

Friday 5th December 2014
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Following with interest. I love integration work smile

Blue32

Original Poster:

438 posts

168 months

Friday 5th December 2014
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C7 JFW said:
This is really exciting. Does this go hand in hand with one of the Multi-function steering wheels that are also very rare on the mkiv golf?
The MKIV R32 wasn't available with multi-function steering wheel. Although it could be added, however it would in this style (which doesn’t match the interior)

Unfortunately the MKIV multi-function steering wheel can’t have DSG paddles fitted.

mwstewart said:
Following with interest. I love integration work smile
Thanks, been watching both your projects which have given me some inspiration. I have already got a role of foam tape to put between all the interior panels when they go back together. Although surprisingly for a 11 year old car there aren’t too many rattles anywaysmile.

C7 JFW

1,205 posts

218 months

Wednesday 17th December 2014
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I might just have to buy one of those steering wheels.

mwstewart

7,553 posts

187 months

Wednesday 17th December 2014
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OP I guess you already know that the Mkiv R32 wheel was available in DSG format:



One of my upcoming projects is to convert a wood sport steering wheel to multifunction.

Blue32

Original Poster:

438 posts

168 months

Wednesday 17th December 2014
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mwstewart said:
OP I guess you already know that the Mkiv R32 wheel was available in DSG format:



One of my upcoming projects is to convert a wood sport steering wheel to multifunction.
Yep I'm currently trying to get hold of one. The current "new" price from VW is £1,216.00eek and that's without the airbag!
I have been looking to see if it's possible to convert my steering wheel by adding the paddles to it. Trouble is the paddles are £261 each, so I'm not sure how best to proceed.

Have you got a copy of ELSAWIN (VW manuals) and ETKA (VW parts catalogue) as for me they are both proving invaluable to this project.

Remagel2507

1,456 posts

191 months

Wednesday 17th December 2014
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Looking forward to seeing how this one works out OP, love the MK4 and really the only thing I like about the MK5 R32 is the DSG combo available, so this is the best of both worlds for me.

Have you considered a DIY approach to the paddle shift steering wheel like this ?

http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/610491

Blue32

Original Poster:

438 posts

168 months

Thursday 18th December 2014
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Remagel2507 said:
Looking forward to seeing how this one works out OP, love the MK4 and really the only thing I like about the MK5 R32 is the DSG combo available, so this is the best of both worlds for me.
Thanks, I did consider changing to a MKV, however I believe the air-conditioning compressor would have to be removed so the supercharger could be fitted. That’s one compromise too far!

Remagel2507 said:

Have you considered a DIY approach to the paddle shift steering wheel like this ?

http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/610491
As mentioned above this might be a possibility, however there are some wiring peculiarities which need looking into.

I have grabbed some images from ElsaWin to try and explain. Obviously there needs to be a connections to the steering wheel for the paddles, connections are also needed for the airbag and horn.

The standard steering wheel has 4 connections (highlighted below), 2 for horn (H) and 2 for airbag (N95) via a “clock spring” (F138)


The wiring diagram for the DSG box (below) shows a 5 contact “clock spring” (F350) connection to the steering wheel. The paddles (E439 & E439) connect to the clock spring via 2 connections leaving 3 spare, but not showing the airbag or horn…


So I thought maybe the paddles and horn have to be connected via a “module” to allow 3 wires to be used leaving 2 for the airbag. As has been mentioned previously, the MKIV could have a multifunction steering wheel. I thought maybe this would be the answer, so I had a look at the multifunction steering wheel diagram.
As expected the airbag (N95) has a direct connection and the horn is connected via E211 (operating unit in steering wheel). Unfortunately none of the diagrams show any connection for the paddles or connections to the gearbox.


What I’m not sure of is there is no mention of the steering wheel buttons which are used to control the radio, cruse control etc… unless E221 is built into the buttons???

More research required……..



trashbat

6,005 posts

152 months

Friday 19th December 2014
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Blue32 said:
What I’m not sure of is there is no mention of the steering wheel buttons which are used to control the radio, cruse control etc… unless E221 is built into the buttons???
It describes it in the page header of your third image - "multi function steering wheel control unit". Although it seems some of the diagram is off to the right.

Also note that on my car (not VW, I don't know anything about their stuff) six steering wheel buttons actually just produce two line outs, with different voltages depending on what button is pressed.

Blue32

Original Poster:

438 posts

168 months

Monday 22nd December 2014
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trashbat said:
t describes it in the page header of your third image - "multi function steering wheel control unit". Although it seems some of the diagram is off to the right.

Also note that on my car (not VW, I don't know anything about their stuff) six steering wheel buttons actually just produce two line outs, with different voltages depending on what button is pressed.
The off page “multi function steering wheel control unit” just has connections to the radio, clocks and ECU for cruse control nothing to gearbox.

The “operating unit in steering wheel” is possibly a multiplexer, which is fine for digital (on/off) signals.
However the paddles don’t appear to be on/off type switches as they are connected in parallel. The diagram seems to imply they have resistors, I’m guessing the gearbox detects a change in resistance so the up paddle might be 1k and the down paddle might be 10k for example.

I have been looking at the TT wiring diagrams to try and get some clues. Unfortunately the TT is different, it uses 3 wires to the paddles. One common and separate up/down signals.


I made a start on pulling the wiring I needed from the TT loom. To make it easier I printed the wiring diagrams and stuck the pages together for both the R32(bottom) and TT(top).


I laid the engine/gearbox loom out on the floor, I need to strip out the gearbox connector (bottom left), followed, fused supply (top left by red & yellow connector), engine ECU connector (only need a couple of pins) and the connectors to the interior (hidden under black cover)


So far I have stripped out the wiring from the gearbox connector up to the relay box where the gearbox power fuse is located (I hate VW loom tape, it left my hands covered in sticky goo)


I laid out the interior loom to work out where the connections to steering wheel, gear selector and clocks are along with the additional relays needed.


I have also removed the TT trim from the gear selector



I had to destroy the button in the top of the gear lever to release it from the selector because the spring that pops it out had snapped and jammed which was a shame as I was going to use it temporally.


Have just ordered some tape to re-wrap the parts of the wiring loom I need.

Blue32

Original Poster:

438 posts

168 months

Wednesday 24th December 2014
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Finished stripping the tape from the loom today


Wiring to engine ECU connector


Pile of tape getting bigger


I started separating out the gearbox wiring, the wiring passes through a cover to get to the interior.


Got slowed down by the sealant VW put in the loom to seal it inside the rubber boot on the cover during manufacture. Had to cut it away without damaging any of the wires.


I need to remove the pins from the connectors so the wires can be pulled back through the rubber boot.


I have ordered the proper tool to remove the pins from the connector, can’t do much more until the tools arrive


Next step is to start on the interior loom, which will hopefully be easier as there is less fabric tape to deal with.

Blue32

Original Poster:

438 posts

168 months

Saturday 10th January 2015
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The wiring looms are all done

Loom to gearbox


Interior looms to clocks/fuse box & gear selector



Before wrapping them in tape I laid the looms out in the car to check the length was ok

Gearbox loom for engine bay


Wiring to gear selector


The looms were wrapped using Tesa fabric tape (same as factory)


To make it easier to wrap I stretched the wiring across the kitchen and used a bungie cord to add some tension.


All wrapped and ready to go


I have ordered all the remaining parts I need (apart from steering wheel) from VW, some parts have to come from the factory so will take a couple of weeks to arrive.

The plan is for the gearbox to be fitted in late March / early April

BecSte

279 posts

134 months

Saturday 10th January 2015
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Just read all 10 pages. What an incredible thread & car!!

farm2

222 posts

205 months

Saturday 17th January 2015
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Well well mate just read though it all great right up looking forward to the dsg !!! I bet you can't wait it's going to fly when that hooks up