Scaffolding poles + old VW bits + Rotary engine....
Discussion
No photo's this week as it's been a bit of a boring few days - been knocking on with all those small jobs for assembly, getting all the correct nuts/bolts, finishing CV spacers in lathe, tidying radiator and airbox brackets -adding gussets and cutting out a few speedholes with the holesaws - and started on with the plumbing for the front damper interconnects.
The shiny anodised hubs are all fully assembled and loctited though, ready to go on, but you've seen those already
Spent 2 hours yesterday straightening all the damage to the tubes and fins on the radiators and oil coolers - as you can imagine, they get a bit of stick off road, so needed sorting before it goes back together again, doesn't make for a very interesting set of pictures though....also reduces your brain to mush after the first 20 minutes...
The shiny anodised hubs are all fully assembled and loctited though, ready to go on, but you've seen those already
Spent 2 hours yesterday straightening all the damage to the tubes and fins on the radiators and oil coolers - as you can imagine, they get a bit of stick off road, so needed sorting before it goes back together again, doesn't make for a very interesting set of pictures though....also reduces your brain to mush after the first 20 minutes...
Ed's been busy again, yep, he's started chopping the front out now the rear's going back together. May as well have built a new car....
New front cross going in that mates to the beam stiffening bars we added a few years back, and is higher to clear the new pedals and fuel tank/battery/PAS which have been shifted backwards for better weight distribution:
New mounts for pedal box going on:
And some new floor bars, to mount the seat belts clear of the new bulkhead and help prevent anal insertion of the various large rocks we always seem to land on.
New front cross going in that mates to the beam stiffening bars we added a few years back, and is higher to clear the new pedals and fuel tank/battery/PAS which have been shifted backwards for better weight distribution:
New mounts for pedal box going on:
And some new floor bars, to mount the seat belts clear of the new bulkhead and help prevent anal insertion of the various large rocks we always seem to land on.
threadlock said:
Thought that was an autocorrect fail when I first read it!
Is there any value in selling the design for this chassis/frame after it's finished? Or does everybody just build these things from scratch with trial and error?
Haha, afraid not, we've split the skidpans under the seats before and it makes your eyes water when you find it Is there any value in selling the design for this chassis/frame after it's finished? Or does everybody just build these things from scratch with trial and error?
AS for the design, probably not, as at the end of the day it's been designed and then altered just around what parts we've had at the time, which is why it tends to get cut up and remade a lot, and there's a few odd bits in the floor, etc, from the original setup. Mind you if someone wanted one the same or similar, then that's not too difficult for us to make a couple around whatever engine/box they use. It's pretty much built between 5 bulkhead sections, so it's fairly modular/adaptable if that were the case.
We're just starting the next buggy now, 4wd and midengined, so we're going to build that in parallel whilst running this one, and when it's far enough advanced that we can finish it quickly, we'll probably just sell this either as a complete car with it's competition logbook, or as a rolling chassis with everything there minus the engine.
What will happen is the new 4wd buggy is going to built from jigs designed so we can put the new frames into production at some point, if there's a call for them, and we might get the new one IVA'able too.
Edited by PhillipM on Tuesday 27th January 18:51
PhillipM said:
Haha, afraid not, we've split the skidpans under the seats before and it makes your eyes water when you find it
AS for the design, probably not, as at the end of the day it's been designed and then altered just around what parts we've had at the time, which is why it tends to get cut up and remade a lot, and there's a few odd bits in the floor, etc, from the original setup. Mind you if someone wanted one the same or similar, then that's not too difficult for us to make a couple around whatever engine/box they use. It's pretty much built between 5 bulkhead sections, so it's fairly modular/adaptable if that were the case.
We're just starting the next buggy now, 4wd and midengined, so we're going to build that in parallel whilst running this one, and when it's far enough advanced that we can finish it quickly, we'll probably just sell this either as a complete car with it's competition logbook, or as a rolling chassis with everything there minus the engine.
What will happen is the new 4wd buggy is going to built from jigs designed so we can put the new frames into production at some point, if there's a call for them, and we might get the new one IVA'able too.
If it ends up with full bodywork and for less than the cost of the Aerial Nomad, that might float my boat.AS for the design, probably not, as at the end of the day it's been designed and then altered just around what parts we've had at the time, which is why it tends to get cut up and remade a lot, and there's a few odd bits in the floor, etc, from the original setup. Mind you if someone wanted one the same or similar, then that's not too difficult for us to make a couple around whatever engine/box they use. It's pretty much built between 5 bulkhead sections, so it's fairly modular/adaptable if that were the case.
We're just starting the next buggy now, 4wd and midengined, so we're going to build that in parallel whilst running this one, and when it's far enough advanced that we can finish it quickly, we'll probably just sell this either as a complete car with it's competition logbook, or as a rolling chassis with everything there minus the engine.
What will happen is the new 4wd buggy is going to built from jigs designed so we can put the new frames into production at some point, if there's a call for them, and we might get the new one IVA'able too.
Edited by PhillipM on Tuesday 27th January 18:51
The intention is to offer it as just a rolling chassis and then let people use their own running gear, or chassis and drivetrain/engine and they sort their interior, etc - but we might do a turnkey option, first one will be ally panels over the frame but we're planning on a composite body eventually.
It's a case of we've learnt our lesson with far too much bespoke parts with this one, and we really need to plan to get things done in stages, so there'll be a production version using a lot of off-the-shelf components for cost and ease of maintaince, which we'll race the first one of - and if we're happy with it and they sell we'll probably sell the first one on and then build another frame for ourselves but with more bespoke parts (longer driveshafts, CV through the hub, etc) much like this 2wd one.
I do have some rough outline sketches for how it should look, so I'll tidy some up and upload one this week
It's a case of we've learnt our lesson with far too much bespoke parts with this one, and we really need to plan to get things done in stages, so there'll be a production version using a lot of off-the-shelf components for cost and ease of maintaince, which we'll race the first one of - and if we're happy with it and they sell we'll probably sell the first one on and then build another frame for ourselves but with more bespoke parts (longer driveshafts, CV through the hub, etc) much like this 2wd one.
I do have some rough outline sketches for how it should look, so I'll tidy some up and upload one this week
Edited by PhillipM on Tuesday 27th January 23:39
chuntington101 said:
4WD buggy sounds like an cracking idea! What sort of engine are you planning for it? V8, 4 pot, Scooby flat four maybe?....
Or hoe about a 2.0ltr W16 like the frenchies do. lol
I wish! I haven't got his kind of tooling or money or I'd have a go Or hoe about a 2.0ltr W16 like the frenchies do. lol
It'll probably still be the Honda engine, either stock, 'bodied or supercharged, hence the current one is going to be the testbed for the supercharged option so we can nail down the setup and rough cooling requirements.
We're not intending on needing masses of power as the aim is to build it much lighter than the current breed of 4wd cars, as much like the buggy, that helps massively with running costs such as tyres, brakes, CV's, etc. We can do a year on a set of tyres in the 2wd if money is tight without much trouble, but the heavier cars knock them off or rip them open as much as they were them out, the big boys are fetching 2-3 sets to an event and most of them will kill a couple.
PhillipM said:
chuntington101 said:
4WD buggy sounds like an cracking idea! What sort of engine are you planning for it? V8, 4 pot, Scooby flat four maybe?....
Or hoe about a 2.0ltr W16 like the frenchies do. lol
I wish! I haven't got his kind of tooling or money or I'd have a go Or hoe about a 2.0ltr W16 like the frenchies do. lol
It'll probably still be the Honda engine, either stock, 'bodied or supercharged, hence the current one is going to be the testbed for the supercharged option so we can nail down the setup and rough cooling requirements.
We're not intending on needing masses of power as the aim is to build it much lighter than the current breed of 4wd cars, as much like the buggy, that helps massively with running costs such as tyres, brakes, CV's, etc. We can do a year on a set of tyres in the 2wd if money is tight without much trouble, but the heavier cars knock them off or rip them open as much as they were them out, the big boys are fetching 2-3 sets to an event and most of them will kill a couple.
maybe you and Max could work together. max build the engines and you the chassis.
PhillipM said:
Was up for sale on yeebay a while ago that, different engine though.
Anyway, getting way in front of ourselves, the 4wd is just some sketches and a few parts on the shelf at the minute, so might not happen at this rate
What sort of AWD set-up will you have then given you've also specc'd mid-engine. Can't think of a doner, which means you're into v-expensive SADEV, Mactrac, etc. type solutions. Or do you have a cunning plan Anyway, getting way in front of ourselves, the 4wd is just some sketches and a few parts on the shelf at the minute, so might not happen at this rate
Edited by PhillipM on Wednesday 28th January 20:39
I have a cunning plan.....but I also have room for a Sadev down the line as an upgrade too
Lot of the EU guys are switching to the Honda motor too, although their cars are lighter anyway as they don't have the travel we need over here, and they tend to sink 10-15k into their engines these days easily, where I'm wanting to use as much off-the-shelf stuff as I can as a basic version, so it's just drop in and go.
Lot of the EU guys are switching to the Honda motor too, although their cars are lighter anyway as they don't have the travel we need over here, and they tend to sink 10-15k into their engines these days easily, where I'm wanting to use as much off-the-shelf stuff as I can as a basic version, so it's just drop in and go.
Edited by PhillipM on Thursday 29th January 10:59
Watchman said:
Sorry if I sound naive... but can't you use any FWD setup by installing the differentials upside down?
What you could possibly do is to run a transverse engine and box longitudinally and use the half shafts to drive the diffs at each end. With clever packaging of ancillaries over the gearbox you could probably even out the lopsided weight distribution too. The co-driver might moan about having his gonads friction heated by a rotating prop-shaft but everyone has to suffer for their art. Goes off to see whether anyone's ever tried it
Edited by rhinochopig on Thursday 29th January 10:58
That's the plan, with offset seating to save the codrivers gonads, mind (which then gives room to offset the engine weight being over one side) The other advantage is it keeps the cab narrow so we can build some proper side impact protection into the cars for customers, just in case, something a lot are sadly lacking at the minute.
Edited by PhillipM on Thursday 29th January 11:04
PhillipM said:
That's the plan, with offset seating to save the codrivers gonads, mind. The other advantage is it keeps the cab narrow so we can build some proper side impact protection into the cars for customers, just in case, something a lot are sadly lacking at the minute.
Acknowledging that top-speed is limited by terrain, what diffs will you use because there is the risk that you end up with VERY low gearing making all but about 3 gears redundent.Sounds a great idea though. It would be interesting to use an Evo VII or later engine and box as you could in theory make use of the active centre diff and these are easy to re-programme. In fact you could buy new ecu's straight from Ralliart as I have a tarmac grp N spec one in mine.
The only problem is they still go for a fair price, and obviously the tranmission is no good for a longitudinal install without locking off the 4wd system. And I don't like turbos
The other issue is we need to keep the torque output down and hence the shock loadings through the shafts. So.... lots of revs instead.
Gearings not too bad, we have had to be careful with selecting boxes and diffs just because, as you say, it can knock you well out of the useable range on the 'box, but it's looking pretty good at the minute, we end up geared a touch no the low side (flat chat at about 125mph), but there's an option to go longer with the supercharged car which I think would pull it (155), having 9000rpms to go at helps...
The other issue is we need to keep the torque output down and hence the shock loadings through the shafts. So.... lots of revs instead.
Gearings not too bad, we have had to be careful with selecting boxes and diffs just because, as you say, it can knock you well out of the useable range on the 'box, but it's looking pretty good at the minute, we end up geared a touch no the low side (flat chat at about 125mph), but there's an option to go longer with the supercharged car which I think would pull it (155), having 9000rpms to go at helps...
Edited by PhillipM on Thursday 29th January 11:20
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