Caymen gen 2 - white smoke on start up - HELP!!!
Discussion
it went in to an OPC today and they had a tinker around. They spoke to the supplier dealer who has clearly overfilled the car with oil on the pre delivery service (they reckon by as much as a litre!).
They did the flash software upgrade as a matter of course and reset the oil level, and are keeping it overnight to check it on cold / warm / hot again tomorrow. They said to expect the oil smoke to be present for another week or so at random on start ups as the oil is burned out of the system, and if the smoke continues for more than 2 weeks "there is a problem".
So its a suck it and see situation, if Porsche are not concerned at this stage then i guess i shouldnt be either.
The next issue i need to consider is that the dealer claimed the car had a full porsche service history, which it doesnt and only has a service stamp from themselves, so i am now unable to buy an extended porsche warranty unless i have a major service and 111 point inpecttion done by Porsche first (in total over £1600!).
Great first 2 days of Porsche ownership!
They did the flash software upgrade as a matter of course and reset the oil level, and are keeping it overnight to check it on cold / warm / hot again tomorrow. They said to expect the oil smoke to be present for another week or so at random on start ups as the oil is burned out of the system, and if the smoke continues for more than 2 weeks "there is a problem".
So its a suck it and see situation, if Porsche are not concerned at this stage then i guess i shouldnt be either.
The next issue i need to consider is that the dealer claimed the car had a full porsche service history, which it doesnt and only has a service stamp from themselves, so i am now unable to buy an extended porsche warranty unless i have a major service and 111 point inpecttion done by Porsche first (in total over £1600!).
Great first 2 days of Porsche ownership!
The 111-point inspection is mandatory for everyone putting in a non-OPC sourced Porsche, so I wouldn't worry on that front.
And yes, if there is a service history "issue" you will need to do a major service (
~£500). From the OP though it sounds like you knew the dealer you bought it from had done the service on it? Why else would they be tinkering with the oil at all if Porsche had done it?
I've been told that Porsche won't let you put it in for an extended warranty until you have owned it for 90 days, so if you plan for that to happen in 3 months you should be ok.
And yes, if there is a service history "issue" you will need to do a major service (
~£500). From the OP though it sounds like you knew the dealer you bought it from had done the service on it? Why else would they be tinkering with the oil at all if Porsche had done it?
I've been told that Porsche won't let you put it in for an extended warranty until you have owned it for 90 days, so if you plan for that to happen in 3 months you should be ok.
Edited by Durzel on Tuesday 14th June 06:37
premio said:
it went in to an OPC today and they had a tinker around. They spoke to the supplier dealer who has clearly overfilled the car with oil on the pre delivery service (they reckon by as much as a litre!).
They did the flash software upgrade as a matter of course and reset the oil level, and are keeping it overnight to check it on cold / warm / hot again tomorrow. They said to expect the oil smoke to be present for another week or so at random on start ups as the oil is burned out of the system, and if the smoke continues for more than 2 weeks "there is a problem".
So its a suck it and see situation, if Porsche are not concerned at this stage then i guess i shouldnt be either.
The next issue i need to consider is that the dealer claimed the car had a full porsche service history, which it doesnt and only has a service stamp from themselves, so i am now unable to buy an extended porsche warranty unless i have a major service and 111 point inpecttion done by Porsche first (in total over £1600!).
Great first 2 days of Porsche ownership!
Not great news but could have been worse - at least you're getting to the bottom of the issue.They did the flash software upgrade as a matter of course and reset the oil level, and are keeping it overnight to check it on cold / warm / hot again tomorrow. They said to expect the oil smoke to be present for another week or so at random on start ups as the oil is burned out of the system, and if the smoke continues for more than 2 weeks "there is a problem".
So its a suck it and see situation, if Porsche are not concerned at this stage then i guess i shouldnt be either.
The next issue i need to consider is that the dealer claimed the car had a full porsche service history, which it doesnt and only has a service stamp from themselves, so i am now unable to buy an extended porsche warranty unless i have a major service and 111 point inpecttion done by Porsche first (in total over £1600!).
Great first 2 days of Porsche ownership!
The moral of the story is trust no one and ALWAYS get an independent inspection undertaken - particularly if you're new to a brand / lack expertise.
ok, had the car for 1 week and hardly driven it at all.
Had an independent borescopy test done on the cylinders today - scored cylinder walls! Car has only got 6.4k miles on the clock, still spiting out smoke on start up.
This car has to be knackered doesnt it. No way is scored cylinder walls acceptable on a 1 week old user car with just 6.4k miles?
Had an independent borescopy test done on the cylinders today - scored cylinder walls! Car has only got 6.4k miles on the clock, still spiting out smoke on start up.
This car has to be knackered doesnt it. No way is scored cylinder walls acceptable on a 1 week old user car with just 6.4k miles?
allegedly it does have a warranty but having had the car for just 1 week it is getting rejected (for the 3rd time, the last 2 times they ignored me).
I am not having a £30k 6.4k miles cayman thats had to have a new engine and therefore devalued, not to mention the fact i'll be without a car for weeks
I am not having a £30k 6.4k miles cayman thats had to have a new engine and therefore devalued, not to mention the fact i'll be without a car for weeks
Andyuk911 said:
Calm ...
This is normal for a DFI type engine.
You are seeing oil that is from the crankcase pressure that is recirculate back in to the intake ... this is for emission reasons.
When we first saw this on the RS4s(even very bad smoke) nothing was found to be wrong.
HTH
And that's what the air/oil seperator is for. These eventualy show signs of failing but certainly not at 6k miles. This is something evidently more serious. This is normal for a DFI type engine.
You are seeing oil that is from the crankcase pressure that is recirculate back in to the intake ... this is for emission reasons.
When we first saw this on the RS4s(even very bad smoke) nothing was found to be wrong.
HTH
Edited by Andyuk911 on Monday 13th June 12:14
Rgds
Pops
Ps: not gunning for you, honest!
premio said:
ok, had the car for 1 week and hardly driven it at all.
Had an independent borescopy test done on the cylinders today - scored cylinder walls! Car has only got 6.4k miles on the clock, still spiting out smoke on start up.
This car has to be knackered doesnt it. No way is scored cylinder walls acceptable on a 1 week old user car with just 6.4k miles?
Hazard a guess, but this is almost exactly what happens when the fluids aren't given time to warm up before you give it close to 10/10'ths.Had an independent borescopy test done on the cylinders today - scored cylinder walls! Car has only got 6.4k miles on the clock, still spiting out smoke on start up.
This car has to be knackered doesnt it. No way is scored cylinder walls acceptable on a 1 week old user car with just 6.4k miles?
Sorry for you, but you have grounds to reject it now.
Rgds
Pops
Durzel said:
Yeah, as above definitely reject it. It is unlikely the third-party warranty offered would cover the cost of repairs.
Incidentally what made you decide to get a boroscopy done? Were all of the cylinders scored?
it was more done to put my mind at ease and stop me being paranoid (well that was the plan!)Incidentally what made you decide to get a boroscopy done? Were all of the cylinders scored?
the dealer said they put too much oil in, but i was reading online about some known problems with mismatching pistons or valve guides issues as potential reasons for smoking on start up, so i really just wanted to get this test done to see if it was anything to do with that. A work colleague knows the guys at GT one (great guys) and we rang them for some initial advice about the smoke, and it was tehm who suggested they could do the borescope to put my mind at ease. Given the fact the dealer said they had over filled with oil, i dont think they expected to find any internal damage, but they did!
Not sure how many are scored, i will find out today when i get the pics.
Well it's good that you did since doing so has highlighted a problem that you might not have otherwise discovered until some time (and expense if an OPC did it) later.
The fact the OPC said they thought it had been overfilled with oil, and the source dealer said the same in my opinion stands you in good stead legally.
Fingers crossed the dealer are cooperated and accept full liability.
The fact the OPC said they thought it had been overfilled with oil, and the source dealer said the same in my opinion stands you in good stead legally.
Fingers crossed the dealer are cooperated and accept full liability.
Popolou said:
Andyuk911 said:
Calm ...
This is normal for a DFI type engine.
You are seeing oil that is from the crankcase pressure that is recirculate back in to the intake ... this is for emission reasons.
When we first saw this on the RS4s(even very bad smoke) nothing was found to be wrong.
HTH
And that's what the air/oil seperator is for. These eventualy show signs of failing but certainly not at 6k miles. This is something evidently more serious. This is normal for a DFI type engine.
You are seeing oil that is from the crankcase pressure that is recirculate back in to the intake ... this is for emission reasons.
When we first saw this on the RS4s(even very bad smoke) nothing was found to be wrong.
HTH
Edited by Andyuk911 on Monday 13th June 12:14
Rgds
Pops
Ps: not gunning for you, honest!
have a read :-
http://www.google.com/patents?id=fLITAAAAEBAJ&...
premio said:
Durzel said:
Yeah, as above definitely reject it. It is unlikely the third-party warranty offered would cover the cost of repairs.
Incidentally what made you decide to get a boroscopy done? Were all of the cylinders scored?
it was more done to put my mind at ease and stop me being paranoid (well that was the plan!)Incidentally what made you decide to get a boroscopy done? Were all of the cylinders scored?
the dealer said they put too much oil in, but i was reading online about some known problems with mismatching pistons or valve guides issues as potential reasons for smoking on start up, so i really just wanted to get this test done to see if it was anything to do with that. A work colleague knows the guys at GT one (great guys) and we rang them for some initial advice about the smoke, and it was tehm who suggested they could do the borescope to put my mind at ease. Given the fact the dealer said they had over filled with oil, i dont think they expected to find any internal damage, but they did!
Not sure how many are scored, i will find out today when i get the pics.
Another quick test ... stick it on a dyno and see if it is well down on power ..
Andyuk911 said:
Just a word of caution ... just check what they are looking at is not 'normal' and thus jumping to the wrong conclusion ...
Another quick test ... stick it on a dyno and see if it is well down on power ..
I'm not sure thrashing the nuts out of the engine on some dyno power runs is the best thing to do if the OP is concerned about scored bores. It wouldn't help the OP's cause if there was to be recorded rev range activity at the same time as he is trying to resolve things and just because an engine produces it's required power doesn't necessarily mean all is well. I think that's a rather crude method for determining the engine's well being.Another quick test ... stick it on a dyno and see if it is well down on power ..
Henry
ok, well got the photos back from the borescopy (sp?) and ALL 6 CYLINDER WALLS were scored! On a 6.4k mile car!! God knows how.
I had the pics checked by Porsche and they confirmed engine is beyond repair, and took it to the dealers for a refund - they were excellent and didnt mess me about at all. I was really impressed and happy at how they dealt with it. The car is just 3 weeks out of porsche warranty being an 09 plate, so fingers crossed they will give him a new engine.
I had the pics checked by Porsche and they confirmed engine is beyond repair, and took it to the dealers for a refund - they were excellent and didnt mess me about at all. I was really impressed and happy at how they dealt with it. The car is just 3 weeks out of porsche warranty being an 09 plate, so fingers crossed they will give him a new engine.
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