996 GT2 + Ohlins dampers + Ruf exhaust + remap & other bits
Discussion
slippy,
cathartic..... hopefully, an enjoyable read..... definately. nice to read about something well thought out.
made a great change from the usual thats for sure. i had a full on laugh at your intro
i must admit that i saw those ohlins and cheated ahead to the pictures to see if you were running with the rear bumper scraping the road. sadly regular height was there and i had to go back and read instead about the realisation the race shocks are super short
apart from that moment of weakness i read it through in full. car looks great, really great and im not usually a big GT2 fan.
ill hit you up on email ref slow speed suspension with something to think about.
what spring rates did you settle on for the mains?
cathartic..... hopefully, an enjoyable read..... definately. nice to read about something well thought out.
made a great change from the usual thats for sure. i had a full on laugh at your intro
i must admit that i saw those ohlins and cheated ahead to the pictures to see if you were running with the rear bumper scraping the road. sadly regular height was there and i had to go back and read instead about the realisation the race shocks are super short
apart from that moment of weakness i read it through in full. car looks great, really great and im not usually a big GT2 fan.
ill hit you up on email ref slow speed suspension with something to think about.
what spring rates did you settle on for the mains?
ZeroH said:
Lol... funnily enough I asked Matt if your wheels would fit on my car as I was planning on bugging you for them whenever you want to offload them.... his response of "centre-lock" was not what I wanted to hear 
Don't let centre locks put you off. Where there's a will, there's a way 
What do you think's going on my GT2? and that hasn't got centre locks (at the moment
)Great post, very interesting to read and I'll second a laugh at how you got the free exhaust.
I'm with you on the Ruf system, even after only getting mine back yesterday, the difference between it and the standard one is quite impressive. Throttle response is much freer and doesn't seem as laboured when blipping the loud pedal which must be down to the cats.
Having been used to a far louder de-baffled OE exhaust, the lack of noise is a bit of a negative for me but in turn, has dispensed with the boominess suffered at moderate cruising speeds. But, the sound of the Ruf is quite simply beautiful, almost sounding like a N/A engine from inside the cabin. Sounds strange I know, but that's my take on it.
Do you concur with any of that Slippy?
I'm with you on the Ruf system, even after only getting mine back yesterday, the difference between it and the standard one is quite impressive. Throttle response is much freer and doesn't seem as laboured when blipping the loud pedal which must be down to the cats.
Having been used to a far louder de-baffled OE exhaust, the lack of noise is a bit of a negative for me but in turn, has dispensed with the boominess suffered at moderate cruising speeds. But, the sound of the Ruf is quite simply beautiful, almost sounding like a N/A engine from inside the cabin. Sounds strange I know, but that's my take on it.
Do you concur with any of that Slippy?
Leigh996tt said:
Great post, very interesting to read and I'll second a laugh at how you got the free exhaust.
I'm with you on the Ruf system, even after only getting mine back yesterday, the difference between it and the standard one is quite impressive. Throttle response is much freer and doesn't seem as laboured when blipping the loud pedal which must be down to the cats.
Having been used to a far louder de-baffled OE exhaust, the lack of noise is a bit of a negative for me but in turn, has dispensed with the boominess suffered at moderate cruising speeds. But, the sound of the Ruf is quite simply beautiful, almost sounding like a N/A engine from inside the cabin. Sounds strange I know, but that's my take on it.
Do you concur with any of that Slippy?
Well I have to admit I like the stealthy sound of the Ruf exhaust ! too much noise really doesn't do it for me, but then again I am getting old ! I read some years ago that 996 Turbo aftermarket exhausts (if not properly designed) can be very boomy, especially in the all important 65 to 75mph range.I'm with you on the Ruf system, even after only getting mine back yesterday, the difference between it and the standard one is quite impressive. Throttle response is much freer and doesn't seem as laboured when blipping the loud pedal which must be down to the cats.
Having been used to a far louder de-baffled OE exhaust, the lack of noise is a bit of a negative for me but in turn, has dispensed with the boominess suffered at moderate cruising speeds. But, the sound of the Ruf is quite simply beautiful, almost sounding like a N/A engine from inside the cabin. Sounds strange I know, but that's my take on it.
Do you concur with any of that Slippy?
I learnt my lesson when I bought my Mk1 996 GT3 in 2006 as it came with a pair of Hayward and Scott silencers. They suffered from the most terrible resonance and booming. Needless to say they were rapidly replaced with satndard items at the first opportunity !
Until today I'd only heard the Ruf exhaust "out in the sticks" with the windows down at full chat. However I've used the car around town today and was surprised to hear how much noisier it was outside even at fairly moderate throttle openings. It didn't sound unsociable, but definitely louder than I'd first thought. Still peaceful inside the car though.
fioran0 said:
slippy,
cathartic..... hopefully, an enjoyable read..... definately. nice to read about something well thought out.
made a great change from the usual thats for sure. i had a full on laugh at your intro
i must admit that i saw those ohlins and cheated ahead to the pictures to see if you were running with the rear bumper scraping the road. sadly regular height was there and i had to go back and read instead about the realisation the race shocks are super short
apart from that moment of weakness i read it through in full. car looks great, really great and im not usually a big GT2 fan.
ill hit you up on email ref slow speed suspension with something to think about.
what spring rates did you settle on for the mains?
Hi F,cathartic..... hopefully, an enjoyable read..... definately. nice to read about something well thought out.
made a great change from the usual thats for sure. i had a full on laugh at your intro
i must admit that i saw those ohlins and cheated ahead to the pictures to see if you were running with the rear bumper scraping the road. sadly regular height was there and i had to go back and read instead about the realisation the race shocks are super short
apart from that moment of weakness i read it through in full. car looks great, really great and im not usually a big GT2 fan.
ill hit you up on email ref slow speed suspension with something to think about.
what spring rates did you settle on for the mains?
I'll have to get back to you with the spring rates, I haven't had the build sheet for the dampers yet,
Suffice to say (and as you've rightly highlighted) the original damper, rods, bodies and springs were at least 75mm too short . . . .
I think with them fitted the car would have most likely have been a contender for Pimp my Ride !
Look forward to hearing your views/suggestions on slow speed damping.
Edited by Slippydiff on Saturday 3rd September 23:53
Hi Slippy
Looks like an awsome project you've been doing with an even better outcome.
Mike at S & C suggested I get in touch, I've got a 997.1 C2S with PCCB. So 350mm disc all round with the uprated 6 piston front calipers and rear 4 piston calipers.
I am contemplating doing more track work and would rather preserve the PCCBs so have looked at converting back to steels but whilst keeing my PCCB calipers as the obviously give superior braking power.
So far I've discovered 997.1 Turbo and GT3 also use 350mm discs so would seem a suitable replacement option.
However the only car which seems to use same pads is 996 GT3 after 2004, also some guys use the disc as well from the 996 GT3 after 2004, but it is 350mm front and 330mm rear.
I was wondering if you had any ideas on what would be a good solution Slippy? The other consideration is leaving the ceremics on the back and just putting steels on front as the rear does not do much of the braking, but would that mess with braking forces?
Looks like an awsome project you've been doing with an even better outcome.
Mike at S & C suggested I get in touch, I've got a 997.1 C2S with PCCB. So 350mm disc all round with the uprated 6 piston front calipers and rear 4 piston calipers.
I am contemplating doing more track work and would rather preserve the PCCBs so have looked at converting back to steels but whilst keeing my PCCB calipers as the obviously give superior braking power.
So far I've discovered 997.1 Turbo and GT3 also use 350mm discs so would seem a suitable replacement option.
However the only car which seems to use same pads is 996 GT3 after 2004, also some guys use the disc as well from the 996 GT3 after 2004, but it is 350mm front and 330mm rear.
I was wondering if you had any ideas on what would be a good solution Slippy? The other consideration is leaving the ceremics on the back and just putting steels on front as the rear does not do much of the braking, but would that mess with braking forces?
gibbo,
i believe the preferred option to go to steel from pccb if you want to keep porsche parts is 996 GT3 front discs (Mk2) and 997 TT rear discs.
girodisc, alcon and performance friction all offer nice steel options too so if you are happy enough to venture away from the porsche parts dept you can get even nicer discs on there.
i believe the preferred option to go to steel from pccb if you want to keep porsche parts is 996 GT3 front discs (Mk2) and 997 TT rear discs.
girodisc, alcon and performance friction all offer nice steel options too so if you are happy enough to venture away from the porsche parts dept you can get even nicer discs on there.
jfp said:
Slippy, glad you like the ceramics, when you hit the sweet spot with them they are awesome. Also I'm looking forward to seeing the car, I bet it goes like stink now and would be keen to see how by how much it leaves the GTR for dead... I still have a huge hankering for a GT2, sadly I cant see it happening.
The discs will be available from JZM, as per our Iron PCCB replacements.
Someone mentioned iron fronts and PCCB rears - would not recomend it. The PSM would hate it, and the rears do work quite hard and run hot due to the comparative lack of cooling at the rear.
Jon.
Thanks for that. The discs will be available from JZM, as per our Iron PCCB replacements.
Someone mentioned iron fronts and PCCB rears - would not recomend it. The PSM would hate it, and the rears do work quite hard and run hot due to the comparative lack of cooling at the rear.
Jon.
Are you the guy who supplied Slippy his special discs then?
Would you maybe have any experience/recommendations for converting PCCB back to steels but maintaining the calipers?
Gibbo205 said:
Thanks for that.
Are you the guy who supplied Slippy his special discs then?
Would you maybe have any experience/recommendations for converting PCCB back to steels but maintaining the calipers?
+1 On NOT mixing PCCBS and steels. I was told by an independant (who should have known better) it would be ok on my first GT2. It wasn't, the rear brakes on any modern 911 have play a huge part in its retardation. They need to be matched with whatever is on the front of the car.Are you the guy who supplied Slippy his special discs then?
Would you maybe have any experience/recommendations for converting PCCB back to steels but maintaining the calipers?
The PCCB yellow calipers are fine to run with replacement steel discs. As John has mentioned there are plenty of alternatives to the OE drilled one piece discs. They all tend to be a bit more expensive, but they'll be way more durable AND lighter too.
To that end my previous GT2 was one of (if not the) first car to have 997 Turbo steel rear discs fitted to replace the unserviceable rear PCCBs.
jfp said:
Slippy, glad you like the ceramics, when you hit the sweet spot with them they are awesome. Also I'm looking forward to seeing the car, I bet it goes like stink now and would be keen to see how by how much it leaves the GTR for dead... I still have a huge hankering for a GT2, sadly I cant see it happening.
The discs will be available from JZM, as per our Iron PCCB replacements.
Someone mentioned iron fronts and PCCB rears - would not recomend it. The PSM would hate it, and the rears do work quite hard and run hot due to the comparative lack of cooling at the rear.
Jon.
Hi John, the discs and their installation are excellent. The car is due back at Fearnsport for a tweak to the dampers later this week, once we're happy with the set up I'll let you have a play in it.The discs will be available from JZM, as per our Iron PCCB replacements.
Someone mentioned iron fronts and PCCB rears - would not recomend it. The PSM would hate it, and the rears do work quite hard and run hot due to the comparative lack of cooling at the rear.
Jon.
_gez_ said:
Great post SD. I'm intrigued by your brake rotors. Did they make them bespoke? What pads do you use with them?
Thanks _gez, the discs are available in any size up to 400mm as I understand it. Until recently the discs were only available from Movit (STs European distributor). Though clearly from what John has mentioned in his post above, they're now available from JZ Machtech.I'm unsure if ST keep blanks in stock, so delivery dates might be reasonably long as the lead times to manufacture the discs were lengthy.
As a footnote it's probably worth noting that these discs aren't cheap. Those looking for a cheaper alternative to original PCCBs will most likely still find the prices prohibitive.
I was very fortunate to discover ST back in 2007 when their product was fairly new. I offered my car as a development guinea pig and the thus the discs were purchased direct from ST and were priced to take the development of the product into account.
As it turned out, we experienced some issues with them and I ended up having to buy expensive brake pads along with the usual anti squeal shims etc etc. Whilst the cost of these items came to nowhere near the retail price of the discs, it proved to be a time consuming and frustrating exercise.
The brakes fitted on the car now are peerless once warmed up. They can feel a bit dead prior to getting some heat into the pads and discs, but a few stops from 60 down to 40 seems to get them up to temperature quickly enough.
Thus whilst their efficiency is slightly reduced when cold, they still stop the car without any drama and in this respect they're no different to the standard steel brakes on my Mk 1 GT3.
Edited by Slippydiff on Sunday 4th September 23:30
As always whenever I read your write ups, the Custard Creams and Earl Grey has to come out really interesting. I subscribe to race tech magazine so I'm really starting to get my head around suspension tech. I saw your car at Fearn when I got the (Slotted) PF disks fitted and CS seats. The dampers looked very special, I was very keen to here what the difference was in terms of ride quality over the previous set up and then Boom a fully detailed breakdown appears. I will be straight and say that before CG installed the Cup links and sorted the Geo on my car, it was plain dangerous, it would switch lanes and follow every rut in the road. It got to the point of me asking the question why I bought the car but after the brakes, Geo etc I simply cannot drive it enough. I know that you changed the rear dampers on the car but next year I am either going to get the suspension dampers reconditioned or put new ones on from Chris as the car is approaching 42k which must be the limit for these. I must say, I loved the way how your car sat while it was at Fearnsport but you must have had zero suspension travel hence the raised height.
Thanks for the article.
really interesting. I subscribe to race tech magazine so I'm really starting to get my head around suspension tech. I saw your car at Fearn when I got the (Slotted) PF disks fitted and CS seats. The dampers looked very special, I was very keen to here what the difference was in terms of ride quality over the previous set up and then Boom a fully detailed breakdown appears. I will be straight and say that before CG installed the Cup links and sorted the Geo on my car, it was plain dangerous, it would switch lanes and follow every rut in the road. It got to the point of me asking the question why I bought the car but after the brakes, Geo etc I simply cannot drive it enough. I know that you changed the rear dampers on the car but next year I am either going to get the suspension dampers reconditioned or put new ones on from Chris as the car is approaching 42k which must be the limit for these. I must say, I loved the way how your car sat while it was at Fearnsport but you must have had zero suspension travel hence the raised height.Thanks for the article.
Edited by consul on Monday 5th September 00:18
Out of interest how much is a set of Ohlins TX ?
Are they the best thing since?
Have spent thousands on bespoke 3 way fully adjustable H&R set up (coupled with suitable GT2/ Rose/Poly/RS bits) which I thought (wiz told) were the best...........
Any other companies who claim to have the best? Anyone with practical experience of using various comparative dampers?
Are they the best thing since?
Have spent thousands on bespoke 3 way fully adjustable H&R set up (coupled with suitable GT2/ Rose/Poly/RS bits) which I thought (wiz told) were the best...........
Any other companies who claim to have the best? Anyone with practical experience of using various comparative dampers?
johnycarrera said:
Out of interest how much is a set of Ohlins TX ?
Are they the best thing since?
Have spent thousands on bespoke 3 way fully adjustable H&R set up (coupled with suitable GT2/ Rose/Poly/RS bits) which I thought (wiz told) were the best...........
Any other companies who claim to have the best? Anyone with practical experience of using various comparative dampers?
There are several companies that spring (pardon the pun) to mind when it comes to good quality dampers, theose are in no particular order : Ohlins. Motons, Penske, JRZ, Exe-TC and Reiger. Are they the best thing since?
Have spent thousands on bespoke 3 way fully adjustable H&R set up (coupled with suitable GT2/ Rose/Poly/RS bits) which I thought (wiz told) were the best...........
Any other companies who claim to have the best? Anyone with practical experience of using various comparative dampers?
A set of TTX dampers tailored to your car will cost in the region of £7K
The two way dampers (as opposed to the three way versions fitted to my car) used to retail at $6700. They've now been significantly reduced as the TTX is Ohlins preferred product.
http://performanceshock.com/ohlins/ohlins-auto-rac...
Hahaha. There's not really a best but there are groups or strata. Just to add to the confusion many manufacturers have several product lines which exist at differing levels.
Bilstein for example have everything from oem and the next stage up all the way to the race only shocks that were used on the rsr.
Also the term best can have many interpretations and gets fuzzy when you bring in usage.
Once you get to a decent level, and it sounds like you are there all you really need to be concerned with is optimizing your system for your use. Theres not much need for shock envy
All that aside, if you had penske or sachs race shocks you wouldn't get many arguing that you had something from the top of the tree if you were measuring in purely performance terms. A single penske shock would soak up your entire several thousand H&R spend with ease.
Bilstein for example have everything from oem and the next stage up all the way to the race only shocks that were used on the rsr.
Also the term best can have many interpretations and gets fuzzy when you bring in usage.
Once you get to a decent level, and it sounds like you are there all you really need to be concerned with is optimizing your system for your use. Theres not much need for shock envy
All that aside, if you had penske or sachs race shocks you wouldn't get many arguing that you had something from the top of the tree if you were measuring in purely performance terms. A single penske shock would soak up your entire several thousand H&R spend with ease.
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