996 GT2 + Ohlins dampers + Ruf exhaust + remap & other bits
Discussion
For a car with this much Performance, 7k sounds about right as its probably one of the most important parts on the car. Oh well, I guess Im asking for a set of springs christmas 
I was at Spa for the 24hr race, thee was a track day the next day which I did not do, but I got talking to a chap who had a really nice 996 GT3 that had been tuned by Manthey, it had KW shocks which he highly rated. What do you think of these or not even worth a look.
I was at Spa for the 24hr race, thee was a track day the next day which I did not do, but I got talking to a chap who had a really nice 996 GT3 that had been tuned by Manthey, it had KW shocks which he highly rated. What do you think of these or not even worth a look. consul said:
For a car with this much Performance, 7k sounds about right as its probably one of the most important parts on the car. Oh well, I guess Im asking for a set of springs christmas I was at Spa for the 24hr race, thee was a track day the next day which I did not do, but I got talking to a chap who had a really nice 996 GT3 that had been tuned by Manthey, it had KW shocks which he highly rated. What do you think of these or not even worth a look.
I have the KW Mantheys on my mk2. I raced on them for a couple of seasons then used them on the road. Not quite as effective on track as my Cup (which has Sachs I seem to recall, though I may be wrong?) but substantially sharper and more controlled on track than the OEMs, esp with solid bushes. Good enough for use with slicks (the OEMs are terrible with slicks). I was at Spa for the 24hr race, thee was a track day the next day which I did not do, but I got talking to a chap who had a really nice 996 GT3 that had been tuned by Manthey, it had KW shocks which he highly rated. What do you think of these or not even worth a look. On the road, I avoid raised manholes and potholes as it sounds like I've hit a kerb, though that's probably more do to with the bushing. Otherwise they're actually quite pleasantly supple on their softest settting. For me, their dual use makes them v good value for money at around £3k fitted (though I'm not sure what they cost now).
Consol,
Most tuners and shops have a brand they work with, for manthey it's KW. While any shops choice has a large commercial aspect it would seem that picking one also allows them to develop and learn a product thoroughly which in turn let's them offer more to a customer.
There's a bunch of shocks which all offer different flavours of the same quality, KW, moton,JRZ etc etc. You can't go wrong with any of this lot but what you chose really depends on what you want or as above, who you want to fit them.
Depending on your needs you can gain without having to go even this far. Bilstein PSS9/10 will greatly improve over the stock items and I've seen people on revalved PSS9 put in times that are far better than others on more expensive shocks.
If you just want to just be fast, a mild upgrade and the rest on driving coaching can make a bigger difference.
I agree whole heartedly with the post above ref the move up again from the KW,JRZ,Moton to something like the race sachs or similar.
Most tuners and shops have a brand they work with, for manthey it's KW. While any shops choice has a large commercial aspect it would seem that picking one also allows them to develop and learn a product thoroughly which in turn let's them offer more to a customer.
There's a bunch of shocks which all offer different flavours of the same quality, KW, moton,JRZ etc etc. You can't go wrong with any of this lot but what you chose really depends on what you want or as above, who you want to fit them.
Depending on your needs you can gain without having to go even this far. Bilstein PSS9/10 will greatly improve over the stock items and I've seen people on revalved PSS9 put in times that are far better than others on more expensive shocks.
If you just want to just be fast, a mild upgrade and the rest on driving coaching can make a bigger difference.
I agree whole heartedly with the post above ref the move up again from the KW,JRZ,Moton to something like the race sachs or similar.
Edited by fioran0 on Monday 5th September 14:53
I would say that it ultimately comes down to how much your prepared to spend - £1600 KWv3's simply don't warrant comparison with £7k Ohlins TTX for instance, but if you only have £1600 then the KW's won't disappoint.
I'd be interested to hear any comparison between Moton's and the Ohlins however - albeit given the cost, I can't imagine theres many people that have run both to compare....
I'd be interested to hear any comparison between Moton's and the Ohlins however - albeit given the cost, I can't imagine theres many people that have run both to compare....
ZeroH said:
I would say that it ultimately comes down to how much your prepared to spend - £1600 KWv3's simply don't warrant comparison with £7k Ohlins TTX for instance, but if you only have £1600 then the KW's won't disappoint.
I'd be interested to hear any comparison between Moton's and the Ohlins however - albeit given the cost, I can't imagine theres many people that have run both to compare....
My information is that the Motons have a reputation for knocking, leaking etc if not regularly serviced. I'd be interested to hear any comparison between Moton's and the Ohlins however - albeit given the cost, I can't imagine theres many people that have run both to compare....
I had a passenger ride in a GT2 fitted with Motons back in 2007. It had a lot more front end grip than my old Midnight blue car (purely because the tyres were touching the Tarmac more of the time) but I still found the ride a bit choppier than I'd have liked at low speed.
Speak to Phil Hindley at Tech 9 for further information on the Motons.
Slippydiff said:
My information is that the Motons have a reputation for knocking, leaking etc if not regularly serviced.
I had a passenger ride in a GT2 fitted with Motons back in 2007. It had a lot more front end grip than my old Midnight blue car (purely because the tyres were touching the Tarmac more of the time) but I still found the ride a bit choppier than I'd have liked at low speed.
Speak to Phil Hindley at Tech 9 for further information on the Motons.
If i'm going to that level of expense - i'll get some gold shiny things like you !!I had a passenger ride in a GT2 fitted with Motons back in 2007. It had a lot more front end grip than my old Midnight blue car (purely because the tyres were touching the Tarmac more of the time) but I still found the ride a bit choppier than I'd have liked at low speed.
Speak to Phil Hindley at Tech 9 for further information on the Motons.
Slippydiff said:
My information is that the Motons have a reputation for knocking, leaking etc if not regularly serviced.
That's not my experience. I've run Moton 2-way remote canister clubsport dampers on my GT3 for the last year - that translates to around 20K miles & 20+ trackdays. They don't leak and although a knock has just started on the front left, Matt @ Fearnsport has diagnosed the cause as the top mount bearing breaking up, so not the damper per se.The ride on the road with the softest settings is far superior to the standard suspension when it was only 20K miles old, despite the entire suspension now being monoballs & rose joints. The car has 82K miles and 80+ trackdays under its belt & the suspension was a very worthwhile investment from my perspective as I intend to keep the car for years yet. Apart from the obvious benefits in the handling & adjust-ability department, I am finding tyre life is extended by at least 50%. On the current set, I have had 5K+ miles including 2 days at the 'ring, 2 days at Spa, a day at Zandvoort, a day at Snetterton & Silverstone GP out of a set of PS Cups so far & there's still plenty of life in them.
nxi20 said:
That's not my experience. I've run Moton 2-way remote canister clubsport dampers on my GT3 for the last year - that translates to around 20K miles & 20+ trackdays. They don't leak and although a knock has just started on the front left, Matt @ Fearnsport has diagnosed the cause as the top mount bearing breaking up, so not the damper per se.
The ride on the road with the softest settings is far superior to the standard suspension when it was only 20K miles old, despite the entire suspension now being monoballs & rose joints. The car has 82K miles and 80+ trackdays under its belt & the suspension was a very worthwhile investment from my perspective as I intend to keep the car for years yet. Apart from the obvious benefits in the handling & adjust-ability department, I am finding tyre life is extended by at least 50%. On the current set, I have had 5K+ miles including 2 days at the 'ring, 2 days at Spa, a day at Zandvoort, a day at Snetterton & Silverstone GP out of a set of PS Cups so far & there's still plenty of life in them.
Hi Nick,The ride on the road with the softest settings is far superior to the standard suspension when it was only 20K miles old, despite the entire suspension now being monoballs & rose joints. The car has 82K miles and 80+ trackdays under its belt & the suspension was a very worthwhile investment from my perspective as I intend to keep the car for years yet. Apart from the obvious benefits in the handling & adjust-ability department, I am finding tyre life is extended by at least 50%. On the current set, I have had 5K+ miles including 2 days at the 'ring, 2 days at Spa, a day at Zandvoort, a day at Snetterton & Silverstone GP out of a set of PS Cups so far & there's still plenty of life in them.
Back in 2007 when I started looking at uprated dampers for my first GT2 I ended up chatting with Phil Hindley at Tech 9. He recommended I fit Motons, and as a result of that conversation I ended up being passengered in a GT2 thus equipped. It drastically improved the car but I was left feeling that there was still room for improvement. I also thought the costs prohibitive.
After further enquires I ended up having an indepth discussion with another well known independant.
After much debate I narrowed the option down to two manufacturers, those being Moton and KW.
When I suggested the Motons I was told that "servicing could be awkward" (as Moton are very busy during the race season) and that any servicing work would require the dampers be returned to Moton directly. I'm not sure if Tech 9 have the capability to service them ?
Furthermore I was told by the same outfit that the Motons had reliability issues when used on a road car.
I do however notice that quite a few Rennlisters use them, and like you, seem very happy with them.
Where did you purchase yours from, and who fitted them ?
With regards to your comments about the improvement over the stock set up, the standard Bilsteins are excellent when new, but 20K miles (with some track work thrown in) would see them fit for the bin or reconditioning.
A quick update. I've been out in the GT2 today. I took it up to the Evo Triangle, unfortunately it was raining incredibly hard (and clearly had been for some time judging by the amount of standing water)
If my memory serves me right, when the car was up on the ramp at Fearnsport a week ago, the rear tyres had no more than .5mm over and above the wear indicators. On that basis the standing water around the Triangle must have been marginally deeper than the tread . . . .
I had some "interesting" moments and at one point found myself unable to drive in a straight line any quicker than 55mph as the car was aquaplaning constantly.
The new map is wet weather friendly (just) the damping for the wet isn't, it's too stiff with little or no feedback through the steering wheel or indeed the seat of your pants.
However, with the roads dry over the final sixty miles of the return journey, the situation was VERY different, the dry grip is incredible and the lack of detailed feedback through the wheel is less of an issue as the car is so well balanced, "grippy" and neutral.
FioranO has kindly sent me an Email with information regarding an alternative spring set up (thanks F) I now need to read it, digest it and consider my options with a view to making the car more compliant whilst retaining the superb damping control at higher speeds.
Slippydiff said:
Furthermore I was told by the same outfit that the Motons had reliability issues when used on a road car.
I do however notice that quite a few Rennlisters use them, and like you, seem very happy with them.
Where did you purchase yours from, and who fitted them ?
Hi SlippyI do however notice that quite a few Rennlisters use them, and like you, seem very happy with them.
Where did you purchase yours from, and who fitted them ?
I got them & the entire GMG WC kit all fitted at the same time by Chris @ Centergravity who also supplied everything. It turned into a bit of a saga because I had 2 sets of rears fitted within about a month (both started leaking almost immediately). Jerome @ Moton was really good about getting replacement dampers out quickly but after the second set had failed, it was obvious that the root cause was that the lower mounting (an enormous ball-shaped thing) was actually fouling on the hub under compression & forcing the damper rod against the seal. Jerome then built me a special set of dampers using the race body & lower mount (a much more dainty affair as fitted to Cup cars) & that's what has been on the car ever since. Not a hint of a leak so far.
As soon as you start going this far away from standard, it becomes a real journey and one with a steep learning curve. I'm discovering that feeling fast & planted on track doesn't always seem to translate into the best lap times - sometimes setting the car up so that it's a bit loose and more edgy translates into a time advantage, but you only find that out when you examine the datalogs
But hey, half the fun is the journey.
Wow after reading all the above tech, I think Im going to fit a brand new set of the original shocks back on when the time comes.
There are pilots on the site that I must be honest and say that are probably at such a high level of driving that quit frankly I am no where near,
I think your all close to the sweet spot of your cars that you are now down to small increments of adjustment. I have had mine for almost a year now
and just love it the more I drive the car, I think my trip round the Ring enabled me to see what levels of the grip the car can generate which I thought were rather high before you can feel the tale starting to give. The only thing I did not have 100% confidence in was the ride at very high speed, ie 170+, I feel that the road would need to be billiard table flat to achieve go any further but a different damper I am sure would cure that.
There are pilots on the site that I must be honest and say that are probably at such a high level of driving that quit frankly I am no where near,
I think your all close to the sweet spot of your cars that you are now down to small increments of adjustment. I have had mine for almost a year now
and just love it the more I drive the car, I think my trip round the Ring enabled me to see what levels of the grip the car can generate which I thought were rather high before you can feel the tale starting to give. The only thing I did not have 100% confidence in was the ride at very high speed, ie 170+, I feel that the road would need to be billiard table flat to achieve go any further but a different damper I am sure would cure that.
After about 20K miles on std springs and dampers, i believe they are pretty good in most circumstances, the advantage mostly being that the car does communicate to the driver in areas of traction, oversteer and understeer. My biggest issue was getting the rear to settle before getting on the power but the dampers were well past their best and perhaps just new ones would have been OK.
If you are having high speed issues might be worth having a look at overall ride height, rake and rear wing setting. Mine was rock solid on Fearns settings.
If you are having high speed issues might be worth having a look at overall ride height, rake and rear wing setting. Mine was rock solid on Fearns settings.
If you are looking at replacing shocks due to wear but don't went to get deep into the murky world of adjustables you should really take a look at the bilstein B14 PSS or B16 PSS9 range.
These will give you so much more than the standard stuff in just everyday type driving, you should find them better able to perform even if all that means is 30mph through town in a pleasant fashion but also be able to deal admirably with any track day you do.
IMHO these are a no brainer for anyone just looking to replace the standard stuff. better price, better product and a much better ride.
Ref high speed stability. This is really aeros area. You need more, and so the cycle begins
These will give you so much more than the standard stuff in just everyday type driving, you should find them better able to perform even if all that means is 30mph through town in a pleasant fashion but also be able to deal admirably with any track day you do.
IMHO these are a no brainer for anyone just looking to replace the standard stuff. better price, better product and a much better ride.
Ref high speed stability. This is really aeros area. You need more, and so the cycle begins
Was at Fearnsport on Saturday and just had such a laugh ! There were two glamour models doing there stuff at the Ferrari garage next door and then just after I left, they went into Fearnsport in underwear and started posing in the cars ! WHY DID I LEAVE SO BLOODY SOON ! LAUGH. Thanks for telling me Matt !
Anyway, had a look at the Ohlins, they look so good its a shame to even put them on the car. Had a good look at them but in all truth I think they would be a little
to much for me in terms of adjustment, your getting into development with thoughs things because they truly are a bespoke item.
Anyway, had a look at the Ohlins, they look so good its a shame to even put them on the car. Had a good look at them but in all truth I think they would be a little
to much for me in terms of adjustment, your getting into development with thoughs things because they truly are a bespoke item.
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