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Kav1
76 posts
30 months
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F1 Ksp said: F1 Ksp said: This is not kav. its his brother. just saying tho i was so suprised at how quick this car is. its a missile. we turned up to vmax thinking we would not be able to take some of the machines which were there, but all in all not a single car took us. On the porsche speedo it was showing 206mph and clocked 200 through traps. these car is an animal considering it only has a map. What a machine.  The excitement of Vmax was clearly too much for little bro, but don't worry lots of testosterone at this age and after letting some  off tonight he'll be ok - Oh what it was like to be young !
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Kav1
76 posts
30 months
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crisisjez said: Acceleration wise it was awesome
Top speed is still not posted but I doubt it was more than high 190s which given the conditions on sat is only slightly better than average Jez, Best run was 206 on speedo - based on what the 599 GTO was seeing (197 at the traps) and the fact that we were pulled 3-4 cars on it at the traps I'd expect to see somewhere between the two (but hopefully it begins with a 2!).
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996ttalot
1,745 posts
44 months
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IMI A said: 996ttalot said: rimkah said: Yes ken but how reliable are they;) I would say that it is reliable and I am sure that Toby's GT2 will be extremely reliable. Cargraphic sell that package now so it has to be. Not everyone wants to launch their cars off the line..some of us know the damage it does. OT hence apologies. How much is the cargraphic GT2 fitted Ken? I assume it bolts straight on to a gen 1 997t? In the real world how would a gen 1 fitted with this package compare to Kavs turbo s? It is not bolt on..it is full engine build, just like one of our higher end kits. Cargraphic is not cheap but they spent an absolute fortune on that build to get it to the point of now commercially selling it. Tuning VTGs to that extent is extremely hard. A non modified turbo s 0-300kph is 34 seconds (probably 36 at Brunters the surface is slow because it is slow) GT2 as in Toby case is around 24 seconds at brunters - I think the list price is 100k Euro My previous build was 22 sec at brunters and I have just built one for a customer - 35k. I don't think you can really compare the cars - they all have good characteristics. As someone said to me today with what he has spent on his car, he could have just brought a turbo s.
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Kav1
76 posts
30 months
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996ttalot said: Kav1 said: 996ttalot said: There is no getting away from the turbo s performance. It is awesome for a standard package and imo that is how it should be left. At least one of these engines has blown at just 20hp over std so imo it is not a proven base to tune and frankly in std form why tune it. It is good enough.
They shouldn't be any less reliable. Whilst I didn't attend because I was in Portugal, my previous build had two faults in 8000 miles, one gearbox and the other boost pressure related. I would say that it is reliable and I am sure that Toby's GT2 will be extremely reliable. Cargraphic sell that package now so it has to be.
Not everyone wants to launch their cars off the line..some of us know the damage it does.
Ken, I'm sure you know your stuff better than most but DMS do have a wealth of experience with Turbo's and they estimate at least 30%-40% of 996/997 turbos in the UK have at some point been tuned, and the vast majority have been perfectly reliable . With the turbo S, the car runs 1.1 bar max boost in standard form and with tune runs a max of 1.2 bar which is a small increase compared to what they potentially could wind it up to (people in the states run 1.3-1.4bar with no issues). Reliability was the main focus of mine not wanting to destroy an engine on something so expensive, and the DMS tune focused on making the car more driveable and delivering more power across a wider powerband - essentially it's more power more of the time. As regards to the Launch Control, Porsche have a number of Turbos at Silverstone for driver training and each car gets launched 15-20 times a day every day for 3 months when they are then released into the dealer network and replaced - they have yet to have a transmission or gearbox issue on any car and actively promote the fact that Launch Control is there to be used and an integral part of the experience. Speaking of Transmission - the PDK launch and full boost gear changes are a big part of why the bloody things so fast and why from what I saw at vmax you'd need a minimum of 700 bhp to pull more than a couple of cars on it at any speed. Kav, I agree about the PDK launch and the minimal boost drop, that is why it is so fast. And it is no doubt an engineering work of art. The PDK has an absolute limit of 560whp (wheel hp) before it gives up and that is why, whilst I would like one, I would have to upgrade the box and at the moment no one has been able to do that without causing other issues with how 7th works and so on. CMS are the only company who have managed to take it higher with some success. Can't comment on tuning because that would open a can of worms. Hopefully see you later in the month. Ken Ken , what does 560whp (wheel hp) equate to at the crank?
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IMI A
2,096 posts
70 months
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996ttalot said: IMI A said: 996ttalot said: rimkah said: Yes ken but how reliable are they;) I would say that it is reliable and I am sure that Toby's GT2 will be extremely reliable. Cargraphic sell that package now so it has to be. Not everyone wants to launch their cars off the line..some of us know the damage it does. OT hence apologies. How much is the cargraphic GT2 fitted Ken? I assume it bolts straight on to a gen 1 997t? In the real world how would a gen 1 fitted with this package compare to Kavs turbo s? GT2 as in Toby case is around 24 seconds at brunters - I think the list price is 100k Euro 
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Callughan
5,304 posts
61 months
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 Some comparisons to compare 300kph times The time for the Turbo is PDK
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996ttalot
1,745 posts
44 months
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GT3ZZZ said: 996ttalot said: There is no getting away from the turbo s performance. It is awesome for a standard package and imo that is how it should be left. At least one of these engines has blown at just 20hp over std so imo it is not a proven base to tune and frankly in std form why tune it. It is good enough.
They shouldn't be any less reliable. I am sure that Toby's GT2 will be extremely reliable. Cargraphic sell that package now so it has to be. Do you have a view on Cargraphic's powerkits for the 997 Turbo S? They claim to deliver 585-595hp with ECU, filter and exhaust. Hear what you say on the DFI engine but surely Cargraphic wouldn't put their name on it if it was flaky? You know one engine letting go could be just one engine letting go...I am not suggesting it is flaky. Any engine can break and I am sure that a mild tune would be fine. Heck my car unbuilt proved how strong the 996tt engine was. I perhaps wasn't clear earlier, I personally would not tune it until it was out of warranty. Then of course I wouldn't be able to stop myself  As to your specific point, I have to chose my words carefully but we would be happy to fit any Cargraphic kit and yes it will give the power 
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996ttalot
1,745 posts
44 months
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Kav1 said: 996ttalot said: Kav1 said: 996ttalot said: There is no getting away from the turbo s performance. It is awesome for a standard package and imo that is how it should be left. At least one of these engines has blown at just 20hp over std so imo it is not a proven base to tune and frankly in std form why tune it. It is good enough.
They shouldn't be any less reliable. Whilst I didn't attend because I was in Portugal, my previous build had two faults in 8000 miles, one gearbox and the other boost pressure related. I would say that it is reliable and I am sure that Toby's GT2 will be extremely reliable. Cargraphic sell that package now so it has to be.
Not everyone wants to launch their cars off the line..some of us know the damage it does.
Ken, I'm sure you know your stuff better than most but DMS do have a wealth of experience with Turbo's and they estimate at least 30%-40% of 996/997 turbos in the UK have at some point been tuned, and the vast majority have been perfectly reliable . With the turbo S, the car runs 1.1 bar max boost in standard form and with tune runs a max of 1.2 bar which is a small increase compared to what they potentially could wind it up to (people in the states run 1.3-1.4bar with no issues). Reliability was the main focus of mine not wanting to destroy an engine on something so expensive, and the DMS tune focused on making the car more driveable and delivering more power across a wider powerband - essentially it's more power more of the time. As regards to the Launch Control, Porsche have a number of Turbos at Silverstone for driver training and each car gets launched 15-20 times a day every day for 3 months when they are then released into the dealer network and replaced - they have yet to have a transmission or gearbox issue on any car and actively promote the fact that Launch Control is there to be used and an integral part of the experience. Speaking of Transmission - the PDK launch and full boost gear changes are a big part of why the bloody things so fast and why from what I saw at vmax you'd need a minimum of 700 bhp to pull more than a couple of cars on it at any speed. Kav, I agree about the PDK launch and the minimal boost drop, that is why it is so fast. And it is no doubt an engineering work of art. The PDK has an absolute limit of 560whp (wheel hp) before it gives up and that is why, whilst I would like one, I would have to upgrade the box and at the moment no one has been able to do that without causing other issues with how 7th works and so on. CMS are the only company who have managed to take it higher with some success. Can't comment on tuning because that would open a can of worms. Hopefully see you later in the month. Ken Ken , what does 560whp (wheel hp) equate to at the crank? They reckon 12% loss, so that would put it around 630-640 at the crank.
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996ttalot
1,745 posts
44 months
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IMI A said: 996ttalot said: IMI A said: 996ttalot said: rimkah said: Yes ken but how reliable are they;) I would say that it is reliable and I am sure that Toby's GT2 will be extremely reliable. Cargraphic sell that package now so it has to be. Not everyone wants to launch their cars off the line..some of us know the damage it does. OT hence apologies. How much is the cargraphic GT2 fitted Ken? I assume it bolts straight on to a gen 1 997t? In the real world how would a gen 1 fitted with this package compare to Kavs turbo s? GT2 as in Toby case is around 24 seconds at brunters - I think the list price is 100k Euro Actually looking at my catalogue, it is 83.450,00 Euro + tax @ 19% before any discount.
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Phooey
6,102 posts
38 months
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I'm guessing the answer is NO, but, is there any tunability in the Spyder? Obviously without adding a blower
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996ttalot
1,745 posts
44 months
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Phooey said: I'm guessing the answer is NO, but, is there any tunability in the Spyder? Obviously without adding a blower Mate, I can ask if you like. They have DMEs and powerkits for all their cars as far as I know. Ken
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Kav1
76 posts
30 months
|
996ttalot said: Kav1 said: 996ttalot said: Kav1 said: 996ttalot said: There is no getting away from the turbo s performance. It is awesome for a standard package and imo that is how it should be left. At least one of these engines has blown at just 20hp over std so imo it is not a proven base to tune and frankly in std form why tune it. It is good enough.
They shouldn't be any less reliable. Whilst I didn't attend because I was in Portugal, my previous build had two faults in 8000 miles, one gearbox and the other boost pressure related. I would say that it is reliable and I am sure that Toby's GT2 will be extremely reliable. Cargraphic sell that package now so it has to be.
Not everyone wants to launch their cars off the line..some of us know the damage it does.
Ken, I'm sure you know your stuff better than most but DMS do have a wealth of experience with Turbo's and they estimate at least 30%-40% of 996/997 turbos in the UK have at some point been tuned, and the vast majority have been perfectly reliable . With the turbo S, the car runs 1.1 bar max boost in standard form and with tune runs a max of 1.2 bar which is a small increase compared to what they potentially could wind it up to (people in the states run 1.3-1.4bar with no issues). Reliability was the main focus of mine not wanting to destroy an engine on something so expensive, and the DMS tune focused on making the car more driveable and delivering more power across a wider powerband - essentially it's more power more of the time. As regards to the Launch Control, Porsche have a number of Turbos at Silverstone for driver training and each car gets launched 15-20 times a day every day for 3 months when they are then released into the dealer network and replaced - they have yet to have a transmission or gearbox issue on any car and actively promote the fact that Launch Control is there to be used and an integral part of the experience. Speaking of Transmission - the PDK launch and full boost gear changes are a big part of why the bloody things so fast and why from what I saw at vmax you'd need a minimum of 700 bhp to pull more than a couple of cars on it at any speed. Kav, I agree about the PDK launch and the minimal boost drop, that is why it is so fast. And it is no doubt an engineering work of art. The PDK has an absolute limit of 560whp (wheel hp) before it gives up and that is why, whilst I would like one, I would have to upgrade the box and at the moment no one has been able to do that without causing other issues with how 7th works and so on. CMS are the only company who have managed to take it higher with some success. Can't comment on tuning because that would open a can of worms. Hopefully see you later in the month. Ken Ken , what does 560whp (wheel hp) equate to at the crank? They reckon 12% loss, so that would put it around 630-640 at the crank. So based on what you've said with 600 ish at the crank, I'm within PDK limits right? BTW forgot to ask , where will you be later in the month ?
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996ttalot
1,745 posts
44 months
|
Kav1 said: 996ttalot said: Kav1 said: 996ttalot said: Kav1 said: 996ttalot said: There is no getting away from the turbo s performance. It is awesome for a standard package and imo that is how it should be left. At least one of these engines has blown at just 20hp over std so imo it is not a proven base to tune and frankly in std form why tune it. It is good enough.
They shouldn't be any less reliable. Whilst I didn't attend because I was in Portugal, my previous build had two faults in 8000 miles, one gearbox and the other boost pressure related. I would say that it is reliable and I am sure that Toby's GT2 will be extremely reliable. Cargraphic sell that package now so it has to be.
Not everyone wants to launch their cars off the line..some of us know the damage it does.
Ken, I'm sure you know your stuff better than most but DMS do have a wealth of experience with Turbo's and they estimate at least 30%-40% of 996/997 turbos in the UK have at some point been tuned, and the vast majority have been perfectly reliable . With the turbo S, the car runs 1.1 bar max boost in standard form and with tune runs a max of 1.2 bar which is a small increase compared to what they potentially could wind it up to (people in the states run 1.3-1.4bar with no issues). Reliability was the main focus of mine not wanting to destroy an engine on something so expensive, and the DMS tune focused on making the car more driveable and delivering more power across a wider powerband - essentially it's more power more of the time. As regards to the Launch Control, Porsche have a number of Turbos at Silverstone for driver training and each car gets launched 15-20 times a day every day for 3 months when they are then released into the dealer network and replaced - they have yet to have a transmission or gearbox issue on any car and actively promote the fact that Launch Control is there to be used and an integral part of the experience. Speaking of Transmission - the PDK launch and full boost gear changes are a big part of why the bloody things so fast and why from what I saw at vmax you'd need a minimum of 700 bhp to pull more than a couple of cars on it at any speed. Kav, I agree about the PDK launch and the minimal boost drop, that is why it is so fast. And it is no doubt an engineering work of art. The PDK has an absolute limit of 560whp (wheel hp) before it gives up and that is why, whilst I would like one, I would have to upgrade the box and at the moment no one has been able to do that without causing other issues with how 7th works and so on. CMS are the only company who have managed to take it higher with some success. Can't comment on tuning because that would open a can of worms. Hopefully see you later in the month. Ken Ken , what does 560whp (wheel hp) equate to at the crank? They reckon 12% loss, so that would put it around 630-640 at the crank. So based on what you've said with 600 ish at the crank, I'm within PDK limits right? BTW forgot to ask , where will you be later in the month ? I have a couple of new builds (one that we are very excited about which is k16/39s turbos on a 996tt for someone on here) to test at Brunters on a private day shortly and then once that is done I can meet up with you and Toby. P.s. yes you are within limits - hell you have a warranty I assume anyway?
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Kav1
76 posts
30 months
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996ttalot said: Kav1 said: 996ttalot said: Kav1 said: 996ttalot said: Kav1 said: 996ttalot said: There is no getting away from the turbo s performance. It is awesome for a standard package and imo that is how it should be left. At least one of these engines has blown at just 20hp over std so imo it is not a proven base to tune and frankly in std form why tune it. It is good enough.
They shouldn't be any less reliable. Whilst I didn't attend because I was in Portugal, my previous build had two faults in 8000 miles, one gearbox and the other boost pressure related. I would say that it is reliable and I am sure that Toby's GT2 will be extremely reliable. Cargraphic sell that package now so it has to be.
Not everyone wants to launch their cars off the line..some of us know the damage it does.
Ken, I'm sure you know your stuff better than most but DMS do have a wealth of experience with Turbo's and they estimate at least 30%-40% of 996/997 turbos in the UK have at some point been tuned, and the vast majority have been perfectly reliable . With the turbo S, the car runs 1.1 bar max boost in standard form and with tune runs a max of 1.2 bar which is a small increase compared to what they potentially could wind it up to (people in the states run 1.3-1.4bar with no issues). Reliability was the main focus of mine not wanting to destroy an engine on something so expensive, and the DMS tune focused on making the car more driveable and delivering more power across a wider powerband - essentially it's more power more of the time. As regards to the Launch Control, Porsche have a number of Turbos at Silverstone for driver training and each car gets launched 15-20 times a day every day for 3 months when they are then released into the dealer network and replaced - they have yet to have a transmission or gearbox issue on any car and actively promote the fact that Launch Control is there to be used and an integral part of the experience. Speaking of Transmission - the PDK launch and full boost gear changes are a big part of why the bloody things so fast and why from what I saw at vmax you'd need a minimum of 700 bhp to pull more than a couple of cars on it at any speed. Kav, I agree about the PDK launch and the minimal boost drop, that is why it is so fast. And it is no doubt an engineering work of art. The PDK has an absolute limit of 560whp (wheel hp) before it gives up and that is why, whilst I would like one, I would have to upgrade the box and at the moment no one has been able to do that without causing other issues with how 7th works and so on. CMS are the only company who have managed to take it higher with some success. Can't comment on tuning because that would open a can of worms. Hopefully see you later in the month. Ken Ken , what does 560whp (wheel hp) equate to at the crank? They reckon 12% loss, so that would put it around 630-640 at the crank. So based on what you've said with 600 ish at the crank, I'm within PDK limits right? BTW forgot to ask , where will you be later in the month ? I have a couple of new builds (one that we are very excited about which is k16/39s turbos on a 996tt for someone on here) to test at Brunters on a private day shortly and then once that is done I can meet up with you and Toby. P.s. yes you are within limits - hell you have a warranty I assume anyway? That'd be great - I know Toby wants to do some data logging on me ! Yep, Warranty is now 3 years on new Porsche's but you'd got me thinking.
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Callughan
5,304 posts
61 months
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Kav1 said: 996ttalot said: Kav1 said: 996ttalot said: Kav1 said: 996ttalot said: Kav1 said: 996ttalot said: There is no getting away from the turbo s performance. It is awesome for a standard package and imo that is how it should be left. At least one of these engines has blown at just 20hp over std so imo it is not a proven base to tune and frankly in std form why tune it. It is good enough.
They shouldn't be any less reliable. Whilst I didn't attend because I was in Portugal, my previous build had two faults in 8000 miles, one gearbox and the other boost pressure related. I would say that it is reliable and I am sure that Toby's GT2 will be extremely reliable. Cargraphic sell that package now so it has to be.
Not everyone wants to launch their cars off the line..some of us know the damage it does.
Ken, I'm sure you know your stuff better than most but DMS do have a wealth of experience with Turbo's and they estimate at least 30%-40% of 996/997 turbos in the UK have at some point been tuned, and the vast majority have been perfectly reliable . With the turbo S, the car runs 1.1 bar max boost in standard form and with tune runs a max of 1.2 bar which is a small increase compared to what they potentially could wind it up to (people in the states run 1.3-1.4bar with no issues). Reliability was the main focus of mine not wanting to destroy an engine on something so expensive, and the DMS tune focused on making the car more driveable and delivering more power across a wider powerband - essentially it's more power more of the time. As regards to the Launch Control, Porsche have a number of Turbos at Silverstone for driver training and each car gets launched 15-20 times a day every day for 3 months when they are then released into the dealer network and replaced - they have yet to have a transmission or gearbox issue on any car and actively promote the fact that Launch Control is there to be used and an integral part of the experience. Speaking of Transmission - the PDK launch and full boost gear changes are a big part of why the bloody things so fast and why from what I saw at vmax you'd need a minimum of 700 bhp to pull more than a couple of cars on it at any speed. Kav, I agree about the PDK launch and the minimal boost drop, that is why it is so fast. And it is no doubt an engineering work of art. The PDK has an absolute limit of 560whp (wheel hp) before it gives up and that is why, whilst I would like one, I would have to upgrade the box and at the moment no one has been able to do that without causing other issues with how 7th works and so on. CMS are the only company who have managed to take it higher with some success. Can't comment on tuning because that would open a can of worms. Hopefully see you later in the month. Ken Ken , what does 560whp (wheel hp) equate to at the crank? They reckon 12% loss, so that would put it around 630-640 at the crank. So based on what you've said with 600 ish at the crank, I'm within PDK limits right? BTW forgot to ask , where will you be later in the month ? I have a couple of new builds (one that we are very excited about which is k16/39s turbos on a 996tt for someone on here) to test at Brunters on a private day shortly and then once that is done I can meet up with you and Toby. P.s. yes you are within limits - hell you have a warranty I assume anyway? That'd be great - I know Toby wants to do some data logging on me ! Yep, Warranty is now 3 years on new Porsche's but you'd got me thinking. 3rd year warranty is extended and different t&c even though sold from new.
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GT3ZZZ
303 posts
39 months
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996ttalot said: GT3ZZZ said: 996ttalot said: There is no getting away from the turbo s performance. It is awesome for a standard package and imo that is how it should be left. At least one of these engines has blown at just 20hp over std so imo it is not a proven base to tune and frankly in std form why tune it. It is good enough.
They shouldn't be any less reliable. I am sure that Toby's GT2 will be extremely reliable. Cargraphic sell that package now so it has to be. Do you have a view on Cargraphic's powerkits for the 997 Turbo S? They claim to deliver 585-595hp with ECU, filter and exhaust. Hear what you say on the DFI engine but surely Cargraphic wouldn't put their name on it if it was flaky? You know one engine letting go could be just one engine letting go...I am not suggesting it is flaky. Any engine can break and I am sure that a mild tune would be fine. Heck my car unbuilt proved how strong the 996tt engine was. I perhaps wasn't clear earlier, I personally would not tune it until it was out of warranty. Then of course I wouldn't be able to stop myself As to your specific point, I have to chose my words carefully but we would be happy to fit any Cargraphic kit and yes it will give the power Thanks Ken. My S is new this year but thinking about it! Not sure I'd put anyone else's mods on the car but Cargraphic 
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Phooey
6,102 posts
38 months
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996ttalot said: Mate, I can ask if you like. They have DMEs and powerkits for all their cars as far as I know.
Ken Would love to see the options and figures Cheers mate
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996ttalot
1,745 posts
44 months
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GT3ZZZ said: 996ttalot said: GT3ZZZ said: 996ttalot said: There is no getting away from the turbo s performance. It is awesome for a standard package and imo that is how it should be left. At least one of these engines has blown at just 20hp over std so imo it is not a proven base to tune and frankly in std form why tune it. It is good enough.
They shouldn't be any less reliable. I am sure that Toby's GT2 will be extremely reliable. Cargraphic sell that package now so it has to be. Do you have a view on Cargraphic's powerkits for the 997 Turbo S? They claim to deliver 585-595hp with ECU, filter and exhaust. Hear what you say on the DFI engine but surely Cargraphic wouldn't put their name on it if it was flaky? You know one engine letting go could be just one engine letting go...I am not suggesting it is flaky. Any engine can break and I am sure that a mild tune would be fine. Heck my car unbuilt proved how strong the 996tt engine was. I perhaps wasn't clear earlier, I personally would not tune it until it was out of warranty. Then of course I wouldn't be able to stop myself As to your specific point, I have to chose my words carefully but we would be happy to fit any Cargraphic kit and yes it will give the power Thanks Ken. My S is new this year but thinking about it! Not sure I'd put anyone else's mods on the car but Cargraphic We are now a dealer for them in the UK. We still have 911tuning and Protomotive. But it was the only other company I was prepared to deal with because of their products.
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996ttalot
1,745 posts
44 months
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Phooey said: 996ttalot said: Mate, I can ask if you like. They have DMEs and powerkits for all their cars as far as I know.
Ken Would love to see the options and figures Cheers mate Email already sent to them. Will let you know.
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Phooey
6,102 posts
38 months
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996ttalot said: Email already sent to them. Will let you know. Cheers Ken 
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