Has your 996 or 997 engine had a major rebuild?

Has your 996 or 997 engine had a major rebuild?

Poll: Has your 996 or 997 engine had a major rebuild?

Total Members Polled: 867

No: 488
Yes because of the IMS: 65
Yes because of scored bores: 91
Haven't bought one because of known faults: 183
Yes because of D Chunk failure: 9
Re-built prior to purchase, not sure why?: 44
Author
Discussion

DanoS4

863 posts

193 months

Sunday 11th March 2012
quotequote all
The Hartech option (from what I've read) is a viable option.

The downside is that the cars come up so infrequently........

VespaGS150

1 posts

144 months

Monday 12th March 2012
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I have owned my 986 Boxster for 10 years now and I have read this thread from top to bottom together with all the excellent contributions and wisdom from Baz both in this forum and in the Hartech buyers'guide.

I have nothing new to add except maybe inject a little humour and a bit of historical context.

Back in the 1960's I ran a V.W. Beetle with the original under stressed 1192 single port, air cooled engine. The foundation of VW's unburstable engine reputation.

It was faultless, ran like a sewing machine for over 100K as did millions of others.

Then of course in search of more power and to meet U.S. emission regs V.W. started upping the capacity, introducing twin port heads, running the engine leaner and producing more power. (Inevitably the engines then ran hotter.)

So in ignorance and seduced by the new models V.W. Beetle fans like myself upgraded to the newer versions and guess what? yes.... you've guessed it!

Engine failures, cracked heads etc. etc.(Previously unheard of!)

So what is the point of my post?

Well, maybe to say that when the liners went in my Boxster I felt an overwhelming sense of Deja Vu!! and maybe the guys at Stuttgart should have driven up to Wolfsburg for a chat before they designed the water cooled boxer motors!!









BeelzebubUK

18 posts

143 months

Monday 16th April 2012
quotequote all
I'm interested in getting other peoples opinions.

I've seen a 3.6 TIP 996 which although its done just over 100,000 miles it has had what looks like a full engine rebuild in 2007 (23k miles ago) due to camshaft failure which cost over £8k at a specialist independant.

As I will be using the car as a daily driver it seems more appealing to me as I'm assuming the rebuild would have used all of the latest parts (996 2005) from Porsche at the time so "should" be more reliable.

Am I pinning too much on that fact or does it not really make any difference ? Despite that its still only a 23k old engine which can't be bad assuming its not been abused of course smile

Munter

31,319 posts

240 months

Monday 16th April 2012
quotequote all
Globs said:
Do they ever come up like this though? - I have never seen one, where would you look?
One 996 avec buggered engine. (Although exactly what the failure is who knows)
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3779713.htm

Price seems a bit steep for my liking though. And as for the suggestion that a home mechanic could fix it in the advert....

LordHaveMurci

12,034 posts

168 months

Monday 16th April 2012
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I think he's dreaming at that price?

AndrewW-G

11,968 posts

216 months

Monday 16th April 2012
quotequote all
Munter said:
Globs said:
Do they ever come up like this though? - I have never seen one, where would you look?
One 996 avec buggered engine. (Although exactly what the failure is who knows)
http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3779713.htm

Price seems a bit steep for my liking though. And as for the suggestion that a home mechanic could fix it in the advert....
Hartech refubed a motor for me earlier in the year, with the same symptoms, it's not uncommon for the heads to crack, allowing the oil and water to mix

Pugley

687 posts

191 months

Wednesday 18th April 2012
quotequote all
If you look in the classified parts ads on this site you will see that Portiacraft are selling a newly reconditioned Hartech engine for £5999.

If you can buy a car with a blown engine for about the same price there could be a good deal to be had.

It is possible that the old engine may have some "scrap" value to a re builder?

mattman

3,174 posts

221 months

Saturday 20th October 2012
quotequote all
I'm in the market for my mid life crisis car in the next 6 mths. With a budget of around 12k for a daily driver that has to be a 2+2 a 996 was top of my list, but after doing some research on ph, these engine issues are really putting me off. I can afford to run it, but couldn't take a 7k rebuild! So now looking at pre-89 911's or 6 series - it's a real shame as they are such awesome value for money

Helicopter123

8,831 posts

155 months

Sunday 21st October 2012
quotequote all
mattman said:
I'm in the market for my mid life crisis car in the next 6 mths. With a budget of around 12k for a daily driver that has to be a 2+2 a 996 was top of my list, but after doing some research on ph, these engine issues are really putting me off. I can afford to run it, but couldn't take a 7k rebuild! So now looking at pre-89 911's or 6 series - it's a real shame as they are such awesome value for money
Actual failures are much less common than the internet would suggest - around 5% of cars. Still, not pleasant if its yours.

The fact is however, that these failures are the reason why 996 model cars are so cheap. If these issues did not exist, cars would be 20-25% more expensive IMO. A pre-89 car is a very different driving proposition and while the engines are very solid, be prepared for much higher ongoing costs to maintain the car as you will be buying something 25 years old. Classic car motoring is great fun, but practical and cheap it is not!

Terminator X

14,921 posts

203 months

Sunday 21st October 2012
quotequote all
Poll currently showing 78% of cars have been fine ... 1 in 5 chance of a duff one then scratchchin

Just out of interest, how would you lot feel about purchasing a 996 that hasn't needed any work doing - would you be less worried or more worried? Mine is 12 years old and seems fine ...

TX.

HoHoHo

Original Poster:

14,980 posts

249 months

Sunday 21st October 2012
quotequote all
Terminator X said:
Poll currently showing 78% of cars have been fine ... 1 in 5 chance of a duff one then scratchchin

Just out of interest, how would you lot feel about purchasing a 996 that hasn't needed any work doing - would you be less worried or more worried? Mine is 12 years old and seems fine ...

TX.
That's a percentage based on those owners who frequent this forum, the must be 1000's of others who don't and haven't had any problems.

If you are going to own a performance car, have the money to run it under normal everyday conditions. I'd say that's a bigger concern.

Nattyboy888

258 posts

156 months

Monday 22nd October 2012
quotequote all
hartech said:
It is a tricky one because although a dealer is reasonably responsible for exiting faults at the point of sale - they are not for general deterioration of a car if it is reasonably consistent with the age, mileage and the fact that it is now say half, a third or even a quarter of the price it was when it was new.

In this scenario a fault would therefore be the failure and not so much the wear and tear leading up to it and if it was a "known fault" it would be reasonable for the law to assume everyone knew about its potential and therefore had already factored it into the the risk of buying.

The main point is if a dealer wants to fight and appeal - he can delay reconciling the outcome for months or years, accumulate costs on both sides while his car is depreciating with age and probably deteriorating with being left somewhere in bits and if the owner loses he pays both costs.

Therefore IMHO you either buy from a recognised dealer who values their reputation enough to only sell a "good car" and help if you have a problem that is rare but could happen at any time to any car of that design. OR you buy a nice looking one privately and put the money saved towards a warranty from a reliable source to cover the repair cost if you were unlucky - or just stash it somewhere and use it if you don't want to trust the warranty route.

In my experience of our customers various situations - even some well known specialist dealers can be surprisingly reluctant to offer any help (if a typical failure occurs soon after the sale) while some others a extremely supportive.

The cost of most "typical" potential failures is well higher than any profit margin in a sales car - so my advice is always to accept a contribution and top up (if you can get one) on the grounds that you are better off than without any support.

Usually if you and the dealer are reasonable - and in some way share the consequences of the problem that is really not either of their fault - it can be managed better and if either decide to be litigious it descends into chaos in which no one really benefits.

All Hartech sales cars are covered by the sales of goods act (referring to our "engineers report", our Maintenance Plan (for free labour for a period) and a reduced monthly payment to stay on it - apart from which our reputation is important enough to us to do what we reasonably should if a problem of this type ever occured. it would also be looked after properly on the plan (and we have several of these cars on the plan that have reached 100 to 150K OK so far) although neither we or anyone else (not even Mr Porsche) could guarantee that none of the models affected may suddenly fail in one of the typical well known weak areas.

Baz
Just finished reading your many helpful posts/website pdf's baz as I'm trying to pluck up the courage to jump out of my (touch wood - faultless!) alpina, get a runaround for the airport runs I do and spend the main cash on a 997.

As a Ducati nut who enjoys a great relationship with the independent that looks after my bikes, your outfit seem to have the same excellent ethos in how to run an enthusiast driven business so I hope we will catch up in the not too distant for advice and consequently, I hope, my business!

My own (albeit limited) view on all this? If you make all your decisions based on Internet guff then you'd never do anything! Bless her - even the wife responded to my initial worry with a 'well all cars have some kind of fault don't they ? Lol! Clearly there are some big problems and porsche would appear to have a lot to answer for, but it seems like doing your homework and paying for an individual assessment pre purchase is the way forward.

..my search continues!!


Nattyboy888

258 posts

156 months

Monday 22nd October 2012
quotequote all
Any views on this proposed I'MS guardian' mod which apparently flags up n issue with swarf contaminating the oil..?

mollytherocker

14,365 posts

208 months

Monday 22nd October 2012
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Nattyboy888 said:
Any views on this proposed I'MS guardian' mod which apparently flags up n issue with swarf contaminating the oil..?
My view is it is a waste of money. Just get the ims uprated properly, ideally when the clutch is due.

HondaPhil

3 posts

137 months

Tuesday 23rd October 2012
quotequote all
Bought a 996 in June this year, had it 2 days before it went BANG! A local garage took the engine out & it went to Hartech for a major rebuild. Not a cheap solution, but after a lot of research, I thought the best. Car now nearly finished running in & I love it! Now I can just drive & enjoy the car, knowing that the problem has been sorted.

LordHaveMurci

12,034 posts

168 months

Tuesday 23rd October 2012
quotequote all
HondaPhil said:
Bought a 996 in June this year, had it 2 days before it went BANG! A local garage took the engine out & it went to Hartech for a major rebuild. Not a cheap solution, but after a lot of research, I thought the best. Car now nearly finished running in & I love it! Now I can just drive & enjoy the car, knowing that the problem has been sorted.
Was it the IMS that went? A shame to hear but it doesn't sound like you've let it put you off what is essentially a great car smile

mollytherocker

14,365 posts

208 months

Tuesday 23rd October 2012
quotequote all
Paddy_N_Murphy said:
mollytherocker said:
My view is it is a waste of money. Just get the ims uprated properly, ideally when the clutch is due.
So would it then be far to say that a 996 with a clutch replaced is likely to have received the uprated IMS during the change and the problem would therefore disappear?
No, you cant assume that. You would need proof of any work done.

uktrailmonster

4,827 posts

199 months

Wednesday 24th October 2012
quotequote all
mattman said:
I'm in the market for my mid life crisis car in the next 6 mths. With a budget of around 12k for a daily driver that has to be a 2+2 a 996 was top of my list, but after doing some research on ph, these engine issues are really putting me off. I can afford to run it, but couldn't take a 7k rebuild! So now looking at pre-89 911's or 6 series - it's a real shame as they are such awesome value for money
With a budget of only £12K a pre-89 911 is far more likely to need £7K or much more spending on it than a carefully chosen 996. They don't have a reputation for catastrophic engine failures, but they can eat up a lot of cash in maintenance, particularly when sorting out rust issues. They are old cars that have seen dozens of UK winters and the few garage Queens that haven't cost a fair bit more than £12K.

fastgerman

1,911 posts

194 months

Thursday 25th October 2012
quotequote all
uktrailmonster said:
With a budget of only £12K a pre-89 911 is far more likely to need £7K or much more spending on it than a carefully chosen 996. They don't have a reputation for catastrophic engine failures, but they can eat up a lot of cash in maintenance, particularly when sorting out rust issues. They are old cars that have seen dozens of UK winters and the few garage Queens that haven't cost a fair bit more than £12K.
Agreed, look at any service/maintenance costs with large specialist dealerships. On average a 930 will cost more to run than a 996. 930's often have engine rebuilds also but servicing and maintenance is more expensive and more frequent (generally)

mattman

3,174 posts

221 months

Thursday 1st November 2012
quotequote all
Ok - cheapest 911 Auto (i need an auto) on PH classifieds at the moment is £8500 with 99,000 miles (you just know that will be 102, 103k by the time you look at it)
Not the most comprehensive advert, but at that price, with a decent car inspection, that's got to be serious peanuts for such a car? can they really get any lower?
http://classifieds.pistonheads.com/classifieds/use...