Has your 996 or 997 engine had a major rebuild?

[FER4L]

I feared as much - not really a game I fancy playing - I'll sell her the benefits of another 964 then - or even one of them new-fangled 993's

Thanks for your help, much appreciated

Matt

[GregorFuk]

Sheesh!

[mollytherocker]

GregorFuk said:

Sheesh!

....kebab?

[GregorFuk]

Far be it from me to inject some common sense into this forum. But backing the 20 year old 964, no doubt with high double if not triple figure mileage, to be less of a mechanical burden than a 997 with under 20k on the engine seems bonkers. It's not like air cooled engines don't need rebuilds and if done properly this will run you just as much as a failed water cooled lump. This is of course in the unlikely chance that the water cooled engine fails, which if people where honest still remains low.

And this is before we get to everything else that could be up with a 20 year old car.

Anyway, the above will no doubt get shouted down by the usual suspects so forget these ramblings of a clearly crazy man and buy the classic car. Because classics have certainly never been known to be money pits.

Sheesh

[mollytherocker]

You make some perfectly reasonable points, which I think most would agree with.

I am not sure what you're annoyed about?

[Mario149]

FER4L said:

or even one of them new-fangled 993's

[FER4L]

Hi again all

Thanks for the further input. I'm not trying to wind anyone up nor make them feel insecure about their own choice of 911 - they're all fantastic cars. Just trying to be sensible in avoiding any Russian Roulette aspects to a purchase, and don't think there's any shame in that

Cmoose makes good points to which I'd add that the fact that an older model is now less likely to depreciate (indeed may appreciate) makes spending significant sums feel more like investment than waste, and that generally it makes for a warmer feeling to be preserving / improving something older, than to do your brains correcting a design fault on a modern product that trades on a heritage of engineering excellence

So, for me the sensible choices are

1 Air cooled, if one can be found with no issues at sensible dosh and accept a slightly yesteryear driving experience. Tradeoffs are a modern classic feelgood vibe, and overall better build quality

2 Get an OPC warranted car

3 Search out one that's had a Hartech engine or similar from another reputable specialist

Then again I nearly bought a £22k Cat C GT3 on Sunday morning, so we'll see where we end up! I'll keep you posted

Cheers

Matt

[alfaspiderman2]

FER4L said:

Hi again all

Thanks for the further input. I'm not trying to wind anyone up nor make them feel insecure about their own choice of 911 - they're all fantastic cars. Just trying to be sensible in avoiding any Russian Roulette aspects to a purchase, and don't think there's any shame in that

Cmoose makes good points to which I'd add that the fact that an older model is now less likely to depreciate (indeed may appreciate) makes spending significant sums feel more like investment than waste, and that generally it makes for a warmer feeling to be preserving / improving something older, than to do your brains correcting a design fault on a modern product that trades on a heritage of engineering excellence

So, for me the sensible choices are

1 Air cooled, if one can be found with no issues at sensible dosh and accept a slightly yesteryear driving experience. Tradeoffs are a modern classic feelgood vibe, and overall better build quality

2 Get an OPC warranted car

3 Search out one that's had a Hartech engine or similar from another reputable specialist

Then again I nearly bought a £22k Cat C GT3 on Sunday morning, so we'll see where we end up! I'll keep you posted

Cheers

Matt

4. Buy with your eyes open, look after it, accept the (small) possibility of a major re-build, budget accordingly

[FER4L]

Unfortunately that's the point - it doesn't matter how wide open your eyes are, how much care you take selecting a car, nor how much care you take of it, you're running the (not high, but according to the stats not low either) chance of an unpredictable and binary total engine failure - and in reality she wants something that works, not something that we've budgeted £10k to spend fixing...

[uktrailmonster]

FER4L said:

Hi again all

Thanks for the further input. I'm not trying to wind anyone up nor make them feel insecure about their own choice of 911 - they're all fantastic cars. Just trying to be sensible in avoiding any Russian Roulette aspects to a purchase, and don't think there's any shame in that

Cmoose makes good points to which I'd add that the fact that an older model is now less likely to depreciate (indeed may appreciate) makes spending significant sums feel more like investment than waste, and that generally it makes for a warmer feeling to be preserving / improving something older, than to do your brains correcting a design fault on a modern product that trades on a heritage of engineering excellence

So, for me the sensible choices are

1 Air cooled, if one can be found with no issues at sensible dosh and accept a slightly yesteryear driving experience. Tradeoffs are a modern classic feelgood vibe, and overall better build quality

2 Get an OPC warranted car

3 Search out one that's had a Hartech engine or similar from another reputable specialist

Then again I nearly bought a £22k Cat C GT3 on Sunday morning, so we'll see where we end up! I'll keep you posted

Cheers

Matt

I've done all 3 of those options at one point or another! If you're really looking for a modern daily driver, no. 2 is easily your safest bet. No. 3 is certainly an option if you can find a good one for sale, but No. 1 is a completely different proposition altogether. I still have a classic air cooled 911 in the garage (that's where it stays 99% of the time) and a 997 as a daily drive. They are poles apart to drive on every level imaginable. Only things in common are the general shape, layout and 4 wheels. So before considering the costs/risks you really need to clarify what sort of car you actually want i.e. modern v classic.

[FER4L]

uktrailmonster said:

I've done all 3 of those options at one point or another! If you're really looking for a modern daily driver, no. 2 is easily your safest bet. No. 3 is certainly an option if you can find a good one for sale, but No. 1 is a completely different proposition altogether. I still have a classic air cooled 911 in the garage (that's where it stays 99% of the time) and a 997 as a daily drive. They are poles apart to drive on every level imaginable. Only things in common are the general shape, layout and 4 wheels. So before considering the costs/risks you really need to clarify what sort of car you actually want i.e. modern v classic.

Agreed - I've had most variants from 71-05 over the years - the aircooled tackle is a slightly retro prospect now, but still perfectly dailyable, and in many ways so much better built than the watercooled cars. The key thing here is that we are looking for a car for my better half, who while a keen driver, brings a subtly different range of criteria to the selection process. If a 997 were bulletproof, that would be the no brainer choice... as it is, a Harteched 996 or 997 looks most likely, as and when one hoves into view

Thanks all for the replies

Cheers

Matt

[Imafreeman]

Why is a re-build a small possibility?

96 on the poll have had a problem compared to just over 300 not.
That's 30% ish. Hardly a small possibility.

[mollytherocker]

Imafreeman said:

Why is a re-build a small possibility?

96 on the poll have had a problem compared to just over 300 not.
That's 30% ish. Hardly a small possibility.

Now you've done it....

[Imafreeman]

Done what?

[anonymous-user]

mollytherocker said:

Imafreeman said:

Why is a re-build a small possibility?

96 on the poll have had a problem compared to just over 300 not.
That's 30% ish. Hardly a small possibility.

Now you've done it....

Oh dear........;)

[Hungrymc]

When you look at the used car adverts there seems to be a much smaller percentage than the 30% quoted. Add to this the fact that a good quality rebuild adds value to a car and a replacement engine would normally be mentioned as well.

It's been said many times. If you're risk averse, buy something else or run it in warranty. Don't kid yourself that any interesting car is likely to cost little or nothing to run, they all take a great deal of care and maintenance if they are used a lot.

[rossfitz]

Have come up with a formula to help those with a car gone wrong currently facing 1 of 3 choices:

1. pay a fortune to fix it and maybe other weak areas too while engine out
2. face the moral question of selling with known big bill looming
3. sell to a specialist at a very low value.

Having gone through the 'pain' myself and spent the money it struck me that if I were to have my time again I'd offer up to £2K more than a specialists offer to the unfortunate owner and have the work done myself.

A couple of my friends keen to buy into Porsche ownership agree, so maybe there's something in it.

[Adam B]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

[Adam B]

rossfitz said:

Have come up with a formula to help those with a car gone wrong currently facing 1 of 3 choices:

1. pay a fortune to fix it and maybe other weak areas too while engine out
2. face the moral question of selling with known big bill looming
3. sell to a specialist at a very low value.

Having gone through the 'pain' myself and spent the money it struck me that if I were to have my time again I'd offer up to £2K more than a specialists offer to the unfortunate owner and have the work done myself.

A couple of my friends keen to buy into Porsche ownership agree, so maybe there's something in it.

makes sense, on the plus side of option 1 - how much would people pay for a car that had been Harteched? Got to be £2k, so that could be detected from the repair cost when weighing up options.

I ummed and ahhed for so long over my RS4 to 997S switch because of these problems I accummulated more savings so went 997 turbo route whihc was definitely an ideal solution!

[c4sman]

Imafreeman said:

Why is a re-build a small possibility?

96 on the poll have had a problem compared to just over 300 not.
That's 30% ish. Hardly a small possibility.

most 996/997 owners do not post on pistonheads.