Cayman S engine failure and how Porsche will deal with you.

[berni29]

Hi

Every car has some weak points such as "the inner joint always goes on these at 30k" or whatever, but these failures are not like that. And in such a major component it is just not excusable. I have just had the heads off my 993 at 186k miles and there is not a single score on the bores. As previous posters have pointed out many cars get thrashed without problem. If it is a cooling problem then Porsche should have designed in a safety margin. They really should step up to the plate on this.

Berni

[Scelto]

I'm disappointed to see the usual smattering of "what do you expect?" comments here.

But I'm not surprised at them either. Not any more.

But the main message I take away from this thread actually isn't "the engine shouldn't have let go" (even though it shouldn't).

No. The message is far worse than that. It's about the standard of care we can all expect from Porsche.

It should never have taken this long to even get to where the OP is now, no matter what the state of affairs regarding the warranty.

Good luck getting something sorted out.

As others have said, since you're not covered by the Porsche warranty I'd be tempted by a 3rd party solution that would improve the (anecdotally) poorly engineered engine components but obviously the cost involved either way is substantial, and this is a stty time of year for that sort of unexpected expense.

[dxg]

Arenki said:

If Hartech's theory regarding Bore Scoring failure is correct, which I suspect it might be (also makes me a prime candidate :/), then we are looking at a serious engineering flaws that have never officially been acknowledged by Porsche. Wonder what the newish owners at VAG make of this.

They'll probably think that Porsche will fit right in.

[s2000db]

So if this is a major problem, the solution is easy... Take it up with local trading standards, take Porsche to the County court for the cost of the repairs, and use an 'expert' to confirm this is a manufacturing/design fault..

I've not seen people do this (to my knowledge), or if they have, Porsche have settled out of court and part of the deal is non-disclosure..??

[Mermaid]

davey68 said:

This sort of post saddens me too. I was hoping to move into a cayman s in the not too distant future, it ticks all the boxes for me. However i'm having serious doubts, as the only way to run one safely is stump up for an OPC warranty during your ownership.

I know someone who is thinking of buying one soon, although a gen 2. I am sure he will have a rethink when I forward this thread to him.

[BliarOut]

If you want premium customer care I'd say KIA will treat you better than Porsche these days. Premium brand my arse, Porsche are about as well made as the stuff you get in the bargain racks at Aldi these days.

[Globs]

BliarOut said:

If you want premium customer care I'd say KIA will treat you better than Porsche these days. Premium brand my arse, Porsche are about as well made as the stuff you get in the bargain racks at Aldi these days.

I hope not, bought some swivel ended ratchet spanners at Aldi the other day!
And the neighbours Kia, with its good looks and impossibly long warranty: still going strong...

[Mermaid]

Ctek battery charge with Porsche label = £80. Otherwise about £50. And yet I think it is worth buying it from Porsche because should something go wrong....

[PedroPistol]

OPC worry me. The quality of service seems very patchy. I had a 997 C4S with less than 28K on the clock when it started to use a lot of oil. There were no oil leaks visible on the drive, so the car was burning oil in use. Even more worryingly the oil pressure just didn't seem right. It didn't match even Porsche's own guidelines or that of the various forums. The OPC told me there was nothing to worry about. This was when the car was still under warranty.

It all seemed too risky, so I replaced it with a fairly low mileage 996tt for fun and an Audi A5 for the getting to and from work. I don't expect to run the 996tt for nothing, but neither do I think it's reasonable to need to spend £10K plus on a new engine every now and then.

This is my fifth Porsche going back almost 30 years and so far no problems, but OPC need to wake up. There is seriously good opposition out there.

[nickfrog]

PedroPistol said:

The OPC told me there was nothing to worry about. This was when the car was still under warranty.

Exactly, they have NO incentive to say otherwise. They are better off waiting until the car is either out of warranty or under the insurance backed scheme when they can make a killing. I hope I am wrong.

[cragswinter]

nickfrog said:

Exactly, they have NO incentive to say otherwise. They are better off waiting until the car is either out of warranty or under the insurance backed scheme when they can make a killing. I hope I am wrong.

I'd say you are, Shirley the incentive would be when the car was under warrenty thus ensuring a large bill that will be paid by Porsche?

[pheaduser]

Contact something like Consumer Direct
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Dl1/Directories/Useful...
Hopefully there is some organisation that takes note of these things if (enough) people report them. It much easier for a company to try to brush it under the carpet.
It would be good that anyone that ever reported this issue got together, rather than the odd person here and there.
It would be a massive PR blow if they acknowledged any issue. They are lucky enough to have the back-up of extended warranties at crazy prices, to help dilute the issue. Theres bound to be a few people (as this thread might show), that think 'wow, Im glad Ive got that warranty, was def worth getting' when something happens, rather than how the issue should never have happened in the first place.

[nickfrog]

cragswinter said:

nickfrog said:

Exactly, they have NO incentive to say otherwise. They are better off waiting until the car is either out of warranty or under the insurance backed scheme when they can make a killing. I hope I am wrong.

I'd say you are, Shirley the incentive would be when the car was under warrenty thus ensuring a large bill that will be paid by Porsche?

Possibly but Porsche might only pay a very low and contractually agreed labour rate in this situation?

[mollytherocker]

cragswinter said:

nickfrog said:

Exactly, they have NO incentive to say otherwise. They are better off waiting until the car is either out of warranty or under the insurance backed scheme when they can make a killing. I hope I am wrong.

I'd say you are, Shirley the incentive would be when the car was under warrenty thus ensuring a large bill that will be paid by Porsche?

Porsche are fully aware of these issues and will be in constant communication with the OPCs about the strategy to deal with them.

I wonder what they tell the OPC's? We can but guess!!!

MTR

[RedSpiseeBalls]

mollytherocker said:

I wonder what they tell the OPC's? We can but guess!!!

MTR

"If they are an active customer and warranty holder look after them.. otherwise frag em, we ain't making any more money off em"

Does that sound about right?

(@ OP sorry to hear about your situation, I now understand your comment in the other thread)

[cayman-black]

There was even a GT3RS on here that has had the RMS replaced four times!Having bought a Cayman my self back in 2006 i do feel for the op. A one owner car serviced always at the opc this is unaceptable. Good luck.

[mollytherocker]

cayman-black said:

There was even a GT3RS on here that has had the RMS replaced four times!Having bought a Cayman my self back in 2006 i do feel for the op. A one owner car serviced always at the opc this is unaceptable. Good luck.

Remember that the RMS is a very minor issue. It is only a leaky seal that can usually be put off until clutch replacement.

The 'normal' water cooled engines are suffering major and catastrophic failure in the form of cracked liners, scored bores and exploding Intermediate shafts!

MTR

[jackal]

cragswinter said:

Rich,
With respect I love what you add to this forum (& the Porsche world in general with your excellent articles on your website) but that is one of the...? I'm struggling to think of the word? Condescending? ....posts I've ever read.

First of all the figure of four grand being bandied about means nothing, as it can cost anything up to and above 8 grand for an opc to sort out this type of failure. The 4 grand is merely hypothetically taking into account what someone "may" have saved by not paying the warrenty for X amount of years. Even Hartech won't come one here with a definative answer as to how much a fix may cost as every failure can be subtly different.
Plus it seems any opc's tactic is to twist the customers arm to get them to agree to an opc strip down thus locking them into the opc fix, ie " I've already racked up a bill with them I may as well get them to fix it"

Second, four grand is not a pittance, no matter what car. Remember this isn't a case of this bill being the only expenditure that the op has spent on his cayman in the last few years, I'd imagine there are many other large bills in line with regular servicing that the car required but I think most owners would imagine that as long as they serviced their car & replaced what parts the service managers recommended they would expect their cars to last a whole lot longer (I'm obviously not suggesting that a service manager would recommend replacing an engine as part of regular servicing-not at 28k miles any way!)

Thirdly, you post would seem to suggest that just because a modern Porsche is desirable it should be unreliable? I simply cannot fathom this one out? Just because you own a nice car you should expect big bills? Regular maintenance yes, but as stated a new engine is not a maintenance consumable, or it never used to be.

Maybe I read your post the wrong way? It's difficult in a forum as sarcasm, tone of voice etc don't come across too well.

But if not I think you & me differ on this one.

I wans't intending to be condescending, just trying to reframe it in a more palatebale light. I understand situations like this when the red mist engulfs you so much that you can't see a way of stepping out beyond it. These sorts of dilemmas can eat into your life and stop you sleeping.

Porsche are clearly all out of favours and the problem is too big to start handouts to all and sundry so it sounds like OP will have to move on, you live and learn etc.. Better to step out the boxing ring sooner rather than later and emotionally kiss it all goodbye (unless of course there is a chance that Porsche will still relent but it doesn't sound like it).

So to recap, I am not saying the failure is acceptable, but the bottom line is the car is out of warranty and every car on the planet has endogenous design and manufacturing limitations. The smallprint says that Porsche don't owe anyone a cent in this case and they are a profit making giant, not a german 'Noble' so will i'm certain be sticking with the small print.

And I disagree with you in that I still think that 4k is a small sum in the scheme of performance car ownership. I'm not saying he should pay it or anyone who owns a car like a cayman should be expected to pay it, just putting the figure in a rosier light. It's not a life changing amount and at least OP can move on without requiring a second mortgage. A chap on 911uk has just rebuilt his 993tt and it cost him 20k.

[khushy]

masergs said:

Why on a car five years old , three years out of warranty would you expect Porsche to pay for the repairs.Either pay your money and get a warranty or pay your money when it all goes wrong.

^THIS as horrible as it sounds!

[BertBert]

khushy said:

masergs said:

Why on a car five years old , three years out of warranty would you expect Porsche to pay for the repairs.Either pay your money and get a warranty or pay your money when it all goes wrong.

^THIS as horrible as it sounds!

It's a premium brand from a company whose reputation is built on bomb-proof engineering.

If it was my rover 25 that lasted 15k miles before the HG went and then another 50k before the engine expired, then it's maybe vaguely ok.

But on a lightly used one owner dealer serviced car it's not acceptable. Porsche may have the legal right to not do anything (but that's debatable), but prospective porsche customers have the right to choose a not-crap brand. And they will.

I think Jackal paints a very good argument about moving on and not getting embroiled in a fight. But if I were in the OP's shoes, I'd be struggling to suck it up!

Bert