Cayman S engine failure and how Porsche will deal with you.
Discussion
vantager said:
If I ever get another Porsche, it will have to be 2009 or newer for this reason.
FWIW and unless I am very much mistaken, the GT2s & 3s and the Turbo's have a different, more robust engine.vantager said:
Porsche have got away with lots here!
Have really and it's doing no one any favours. Cheap Gen 1 cars will affect residuals of (allegedly 'fixed') Gen 2 examples.So if this is so bad and well documented, then why are there no 'class action' suits in the US, surely lawyers would be clamouring to stick one on them?? Clearly people who threaten legal action are getting dealt with, so why aren't those affected doing it?
As an aside, the instructor who took me on the Porsche driving experience recently, was a freelance operator, and did similar exercises with all the other major sport car manufacturers.. (Ferrari, Lambo, AMartin etc, etc) his view was that by far Porsche was the most reliable, the cars could put up with far more continual abuse without overheating, breakdown and general bits falling off them, and that engine problems/failures were more common on the other marques..
As an aside, the instructor who took me on the Porsche driving experience recently, was a freelance operator, and did similar exercises with all the other major sport car manufacturers.. (Ferrari, Lambo, AMartin etc, etc) his view was that by far Porsche was the most reliable, the cars could put up with far more continual abuse without overheating, breakdown and general bits falling off them, and that engine problems/failures were more common on the other marques..
s2000db said:
So if this is so bad and well documented, then why are there no 'class action' suits in the US, surely lawyers would be clamouring to stick one on them?? Clearly people who threaten legal action are getting dealt with, so why aren't those affected doing it?
As an aside, the instructor who took me on the Porsche driving experience recently, was a freelance operator, and did similar exercises with all the other major sport car manufacturers.. (Ferrari, Lambo, AMartin etc, etc) his view was that by far Porsche was the most reliable, the cars could put up with far more continual abuse without overheating, breakdown and general bits falling off them, and that engine problems/failures were more common on the other marques..
Yes but they use nearly new cars! Not 5 year old ones.As an aside, the instructor who took me on the Porsche driving experience recently, was a freelance operator, and did similar exercises with all the other major sport car manufacturers.. (Ferrari, Lambo, AMartin etc, etc) his view was that by far Porsche was the most reliable, the cars could put up with far more continual abuse without overheating, breakdown and general bits falling off them, and that engine problems/failures were more common on the other marques..
MTR
mollytherocker said:
s2000db said:
So if this is so bad and well documented, then why are there no 'class action' suits in the US, surely lawyers would be clamouring to stick one on them?? Clearly people who threaten legal action are getting dealt with, so why aren't those affected doing it?
As an aside, the instructor who took me on the Porsche driving experience recently, was a freelance operator, and did similar exercises with all the other major sport car manufacturers.. (Ferrari, Lambo, AMartin etc, etc) his view was that by far Porsche was the most reliable, the cars could put up with far more continual abuse without overheating, breakdown and general bits falling off them, and that engine problems/failures were more common on the other marques..
Yes but they use nearly new cars! Not 5 year old ones.As an aside, the instructor who took me on the Porsche driving experience recently, was a freelance operator, and did similar exercises with all the other major sport car manufacturers.. (Ferrari, Lambo, AMartin etc, etc) his view was that by far Porsche was the most reliable, the cars could put up with far more continual abuse without overheating, breakdown and general bits falling off them, and that engine problems/failures were more common on the other marques..
MTR
s2000db said:
mollytherocker said:
s2000db said:
So if this is so bad and well documented, then why are there no 'class action' suits in the US, surely lawyers would be clamouring to stick one on them?? Clearly people who threaten legal action are getting dealt with, so why aren't those affected doing it?
As an aside, the instructor who took me on the Porsche driving experience recently, was a freelance operator, and did similar exercises with all the other major sport car manufacturers.. (Ferrari, Lambo, AMartin etc, etc) his view was that by far Porsche was the most reliable, the cars could put up with far more continual abuse without overheating, breakdown and general bits falling off them, and that engine problems/failures were more common on the other marques..
Yes but they use nearly new cars! Not 5 year old ones.As an aside, the instructor who took me on the Porsche driving experience recently, was a freelance operator, and did similar exercises with all the other major sport car manufacturers.. (Ferrari, Lambo, AMartin etc, etc) his view was that by far Porsche was the most reliable, the cars could put up with far more continual abuse without overheating, breakdown and general bits falling off them, and that engine problems/failures were more common on the other marques..
MTR
Reading through this thread strikes a similar chord to all the other "I cant believe its gone pop" engine threads of the past.
For me the the most damming is the analogy with cheap lawnmowers - you throw them away when the engine breaks! (F
king expensive lawn mower 
)
I have previously owned a 996C2 which used no oil and made no strange noises, but I had this nagging feeling that cherishing the car as if it would be a long term keeper would be a waste of time. Its the thought of spending a great deal of time/money/effort in preventative maintenance, only to be dashed by a possible random detonation of the lump that made me sell up and move on.
This ticking bomb must deter a great many potential buyers
- lets hope the new DFI engine turns out OK? - If not Porsche is destined to join Rover in the history books as designers of chocolate engines!
For me the the most damming is the analogy with cheap lawnmowers - you throw them away when the engine breaks! (F
king expensive lawn mower )I have previously owned a 996C2 which used no oil and made no strange noises, but I had this nagging feeling that cherishing the car as if it would be a long term keeper would be a waste of time. Its the thought of spending a great deal of time/money/effort in preventative maintenance, only to be dashed by a possible random detonation of the lump that made me sell up and move on.
This ticking bomb must deter a great many potential buyers
- lets hope the new DFI engine turns out OK? - If not Porsche is destined to join Rover in the history books as designers of chocolate engines!Pugley said:
lets hope the new DFI engine turns out OK? - If not Porsche is destined to join Rover in the history books as designers of chocolate engines!
I've not heard of any issues with the DFI's yet, so fingers crossed!There was talk of carbon build up, which is a characteristic of Direct Injection engines but I'm not aware of any proof yet.
Is anyone else?
MTR
mollytherocker said:
I've not heard of any issues with the DFI's yet, so fingers crossed!
There was talk of carbon build up, which is a characteristic of Direct Injection engines but I'm not aware of any proof yet.
Is anyone else?
MTR
Carbon build-up is a big issue with Audi FSi engines, especially the RS4, but Audi do nor recognise that as an issue. There was talk of carbon build up, which is a characteristic of Direct Injection engines but I'm not aware of any proof yet.
Is anyone else?
MTR
The RS4 also had an issue with the dampers leaking, but Audi did the decent thing and warranted the DRC system for a I think 5 or 6 years.
BMW were not interested in the Vanos issue in the early days, but eventually succumbed. Also I think the E46 had an issue with the boot floor coming apart, but AFAIK BMW goodwill looks after that for 10 years.
mollytherocker said:
Pugley said:
lets hope the new DFI engine turns out OK? - If not Porsche is destined to join Rover in the history books as designers of chocolate engines!
I've not heard of any issues with the DFI's yet, so fingers crossed!There was talk of carbon build up, which is a characteristic of Direct Injection engines but I'm not aware of any proof yet.
There is also the nagging thought that the M96/M97 engine's chocolate tendencies has remained unfixed by Porsche which either suggests incompetence or a nasty 'incentive' plan - either way it's not endearing me to their care.. even when I get the money now it's unlikely to be spent at Porsche/VAG.
At least Rovers were generally cheap to fix and the mechanic didn't need to pick large bits of metal out of the sump...
It's often the case that it's a newly-joined member that signs up to just pass on his woes. I guess they hope Porsche UK will notice and bail them out. It's not the case that they are dropping like flies.
I'd rather the failure rate was lower, but I'd still say they don't all go bang and a good number hit 100k miles plus. I can't think of anything I'd rather swap them for (for the money) and I don't think it takes away any enjoyment of the cars.
I'd rather the failure rate was lower, but I'd still say they don't all go bang and a good number hit 100k miles plus. I can't think of anything I'd rather swap them for (for the money) and I don't think it takes away any enjoyment of the cars.
Magic919 said:
It's often the case that it's a newly-joined member that signs up to just pass on his woes. I guess they hope Porsche UK will notice and bail them out. It's not the case that they are dropping like flies.
I'd rather the failure rate was lower, but I'd still say they don't all go bang and a good number hit 100k miles plus. I can't think of anything I'd rather swap them for (for the money) and I don't think it takes away any enjoyment of the cars.
Now we know how they break I reckon I could wreck any M96/M97 Porsche in 1000 miles (scored bores/D section).I'd rather the failure rate was lower, but I'd still say they don't all go bang and a good number hit 100k miles plus. I can't think of anything I'd rather swap them for (for the money) and I don't think it takes away any enjoyment of the cars.
The IMS is still a lucky dip.
So yes, it's possible to get to 100k if you drive them like an old Micra. But then - you may as well buy the Micra. And you could thrash that too without it eating it's own engine.
I think this issue takes away a massive amount of enjoyment from these cars - in fact a poster said _exactly that_ only a few posts ago!! The only way I will contemplate running one is after a proper fix (rebuild with corrections) by Hartech (insert similar small firm of your choice here).
No way I could enjoy it before. I don't fancy being in the middle of a tour of the Alps with a big puddle of oil under my smoking car - I'd want that fixed before I trust my holiday to it. I just add £4k-£5k to the price of secondhand ones in my head now, no chance I'd drive it waiting for the big one.
To the OP, sounds bad, especially if carefully run in and not hammered/overreveed or anything and I'd be pissed/on the phone to Porsche but 4k isn't toooo bad - is it a bit more than the cost of the warranty would have been...?
Mine smokes a bit and no warranty now...
And gets well used.
Mine smokes a bit and no warranty now...
And gets well used.
Gibbo205 said:
This I could accept for say just general repairs/failures, yes that is what warranty is for. Because things like sensors can fail and are not expected to last the life of the car for instance.
However an engine has a certain life expectancy these days, my oppinion is an engine serviced according to a manufacturers specification, not abused should last a minimum of 100,000 miles these days, it seems most other manufacturers can manage this.
Yet Porsche, a premium sports car manufacturer who sell cars for £50,000 - £150,000 generally are struggling to scrape 30,000 miles.
Warranty or not, an engine should last a reasonable amount of time, 5yrs or 30,000 miles is not a reasonable amount of time by any stretch of the imagination and Porsche should be replacing this at no cost to the owner irrelevent of warranty or not.
When you spend £30,000 on a used Porsche, will full OPC service history, nothing alarming on the DME scan you'd expect its engine to be the last thing to fail, it should last well beyond 100,000 miles with ease as long as servicing and car is maintained. As such many people will buy such cars and give warranty a miss and be willing to repair cars which break at their own cost as most typical failures tend to be sensors, cats etc. which are affordable or worth the risk of no warranty. An engine is not expected to fail on any car, especially a low mileage well cared for Porsche, the engine should last far longer.
This. Spot onHowever an engine has a certain life expectancy these days, my oppinion is an engine serviced according to a manufacturers specification, not abused should last a minimum of 100,000 miles these days, it seems most other manufacturers can manage this.
Yet Porsche, a premium sports car manufacturer who sell cars for £50,000 - £150,000 generally are struggling to scrape 30,000 miles.
Warranty or not, an engine should last a reasonable amount of time, 5yrs or 30,000 miles is not a reasonable amount of time by any stretch of the imagination and Porsche should be replacing this at no cost to the owner irrelevent of warranty or not.
When you spend £30,000 on a used Porsche, will full OPC service history, nothing alarming on the DME scan you'd expect its engine to be the last thing to fail, it should last well beyond 100,000 miles with ease as long as servicing and car is maintained. As such many people will buy such cars and give warranty a miss and be willing to repair cars which break at their own cost as most typical failures tend to be sensors, cats etc. which are affordable or worth the risk of no warranty. An engine is not expected to fail on any car, especially a low mileage well cared for Porsche, the engine should last far longer.
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