Cayman S engine failure and how Porsche will deal with you.
Discussion
Interesting logic I often read on here - example - you read that there is a technical problem affecting a small number of engines. You also read that the people fixing those find no exact correlation between the drivers, servicing or some of the failures - i.e. they can often be random.
The logic I cannot follow is when contributors think that because they have not experienced the problem themselves it is down to the oil they use, the servicing intervals or their driving and then imply that reports of the engines that have failed (with photographic evidence etc) are some kind of con or scoring!
Just because it has not happened to you yet does not in any way negate the experiences of the unfortunate few for whom the information available on the Internet about options and costs etc together with recommendations and warnings - is invaluable - and if you do find you get bore scoring, cracked cylinders or an IMS failure one day (to name a few) your opinion would change!
Baz
The logic I cannot follow is when contributors think that because they have not experienced the problem themselves it is down to the oil they use, the servicing intervals or their driving and then imply that reports of the engines that have failed (with photographic evidence etc) are some kind of con or scoring!
Just because it has not happened to you yet does not in any way negate the experiences of the unfortunate few for whom the information available on the Internet about options and costs etc together with recommendations and warnings - is invaluable - and if you do find you get bore scoring, cracked cylinders or an IMS failure one day (to name a few) your opinion would change!
Baz
I think it will be interesting across the WHOLE car industry to see what the impact of the PDK/DSG gearboxes is as these are much more complicated and high torque scenarios for economy.
I can't help thinking all the "green" technology will result in alot of wasted energy as cars are scrapped because of large repair bills in the used markets.
I can't help thinking all the "green" technology will result in alot of wasted energy as cars are scrapped because of large repair bills in the used markets.
Fish said:
I think it will be interesting across the WHOLE car industry to see what the impact of the PDK/DSG gearboxes is as these are much more complicated and high torque scenarios for economy.
I can't help thinking all the "green" technology will result in alot of wasted energy as cars are scrapped because of large repair bills in the used markets.
Something I'd pondered too. Even aside from PDF/DSG too; the shift indicator on my manual VW Transporter van tells you to shift 4-5 or 5-6 at engine speeds that cause it to chug. You would need a good deal of mechanical un-sympathy or ignorance to ever do it, but clearly there is an agenda.I can't help thinking all the "green" technology will result in alot of wasted energy as cars are scrapped because of large repair bills in the used markets.
Running in older engines, like the Rover V8 TVRs, the advice was always to keep revs down AND to avoid overloading the engine by making it labour in too high a gear.
I am as sure as I can be that I understand exactly what causes bore scoring. After spending a 6 figure sum testing and developing solutions and researching potential causes (all involving special parts, putting test mileages on cars and stripping and inspecting them) and I have provided very clear explanations on most forums about it.
Research is still going on and we are still having different components manufactured and tested to try and prove the point - and that is despite having a perfectly good solution in high silicon Nikasil plated alloy replacement cylinders - but that intellectual property cost too much to establish to give all of it away to our competitors - at least until we have products on the market to help.
Porsche seemed to abandon a bad idea while our miniscule business (by comparison) is still trying to do what they should have done and find viable solutions to help owners keep up their pleasure of ownership and confidence in the marque.
However - from a logical or statistical point of view - we will never be able to conclusively prove anything because we would need to build hundreds of test cars driven by a variety of people Worldwide in different climates and with different service qualities etc and then after several years collate the results - which is obviously impossible for anyone to achieve and too late anyway.
The public who have problems therefore need to pick between a lot of poor substandard offerings and those few who have the qualifications, experience, track record and facilities to carry out all the work like we do as this is their only way to decide who to trust and who to believe.
Certainly most armchair engineers that post have not a clue what they are talking about and generally muddy the waters to confuse most readers while others play silly games declaring they don't really go wrong anyway!
We continually receive engines built elsewhere to be done properly again. There are so many alternatives talking people into their solutions it is actually frightening when you consider the lack of design engineering experience, engine design experience, small batch manufacturing experience and the explanations they come up with.
These engines do go wrong and the older they are and the more miles they cover the more will need repairing while their value diminishes.
We recognised this years ago and ever since have been in front of our opposition in research, design, manufacturing and developments and hence have a great record - please research it on various forums to see for yourself.
We re-manufacture cylinder blocks for a Worldwide market now with agents in several Countries and continue to invest in newer and faster machinery to keep the cost of the best quality solutions down to similar prices for inferior alternatives and there is much more to come soon in the future.
So yes they do go wrong, no not every repair source is good enough and the reasons for the problems actually are understood by us but I cannot see any way to prove it except to judge by the huge number of engines we repair with our solutions - for a large number of specialists - that provide the answers.
Baz
Research is still going on and we are still having different components manufactured and tested to try and prove the point - and that is despite having a perfectly good solution in high silicon Nikasil plated alloy replacement cylinders - but that intellectual property cost too much to establish to give all of it away to our competitors - at least until we have products on the market to help.
Porsche seemed to abandon a bad idea while our miniscule business (by comparison) is still trying to do what they should have done and find viable solutions to help owners keep up their pleasure of ownership and confidence in the marque.
However - from a logical or statistical point of view - we will never be able to conclusively prove anything because we would need to build hundreds of test cars driven by a variety of people Worldwide in different climates and with different service qualities etc and then after several years collate the results - which is obviously impossible for anyone to achieve and too late anyway.
The public who have problems therefore need to pick between a lot of poor substandard offerings and those few who have the qualifications, experience, track record and facilities to carry out all the work like we do as this is their only way to decide who to trust and who to believe.
Certainly most armchair engineers that post have not a clue what they are talking about and generally muddy the waters to confuse most readers while others play silly games declaring they don't really go wrong anyway!
We continually receive engines built elsewhere to be done properly again. There are so many alternatives talking people into their solutions it is actually frightening when you consider the lack of design engineering experience, engine design experience, small batch manufacturing experience and the explanations they come up with.
These engines do go wrong and the older they are and the more miles they cover the more will need repairing while their value diminishes.
We recognised this years ago and ever since have been in front of our opposition in research, design, manufacturing and developments and hence have a great record - please research it on various forums to see for yourself.
We re-manufacture cylinder blocks for a Worldwide market now with agents in several Countries and continue to invest in newer and faster machinery to keep the cost of the best quality solutions down to similar prices for inferior alternatives and there is much more to come soon in the future.
So yes they do go wrong, no not every repair source is good enough and the reasons for the problems actually are understood by us but I cannot see any way to prove it except to judge by the huge number of engines we repair with our solutions - for a large number of specialists - that provide the answers.
Baz
anonymous said:
[redacted]
TVR used to do that with the Speed 6 engine, many failed again as the weakness was the parts and the design. The just rebuilt the same design withthe same parts..........What TVR ended up with is a reputation for failure that must have been a factor in the failing of the business. Ok Porsche is bigger, but are they immune to the reputational damage?
blueg33 said:
TVR used to do that with the Speed 6 engine, many failed again as the weakness was the parts and the design. The just rebuilt the same design withthe same parts..........
What TVR ended up with is a reputation for failure that must have been a factor in the failing of the business. Ok Porsche is bigger, but are they immune to the reputational damage?
Immune would be a strong word, but they do seem to have that Teflon sheen to their reputation!What TVR ended up with is a reputation for failure that must have been a factor in the failing of the business. Ok Porsche is bigger, but are they immune to the reputational damage?
mollytherocker said:
blueg33 said:
TVR used to do that with the Speed 6 engine, many failed again as the weakness was the parts and the design. The just rebuilt the same design withthe same parts..........
What TVR ended up with is a reputation for failure that must have been a factor in the failing of the business. Ok Porsche is bigger, but are they immune to the reputational damage?
Immune would be a strong word, but they do seem to have that Teflon sheen to their reputation!What TVR ended up with is a reputation for failure that must have been a factor in the failing of the business. Ok Porsche is bigger, but are they immune to the reputational damage?
e.g. it's probably only car enthusiasts/journalists etc that remember Mercedes (at their own admission) had a lot of major quality issues recently. Hasn't harmed their reputation amongst the general car buying public.
Must be a size thing - TVR were always a small, niche player
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Now this IS interesting considering there is currently no precise pattern/formula that makes them go bang.Anyway, not a bore score but a D chunk in my case:
The car had been sat in a garage at below zero (-7 overnight)
for about three weeks as there was snow on the road
so I didn't use it. Then I started it and it blew up.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Thanks. Would you happen to have any evidence to back this up which you could kindly share with us?In 2009 when I visited a London OPC they told me they were replacing on average two engines per month on 997 Carreras and that the replacement engines came from Germany and just needed to be plugged in. This work was done under warranty without hesitation as they said it was a known issue.
I agree with Baz I asked an independent dealer only recently what he was hoping to achieve for my client by merely repairing cylinder 5 and 6 in isolation after a failure, I asked if the difference in price between this "repair" and a proper Hartech modify and rebuild was justified "waste of money he said this is a perfect repair",I looked again after the repair and noted the water level low and the biggest joke of all both rads leaking just a budget fix. The bill to my client ended up at £2750 being a 50% contribution from the dealer!
A word of warning, a partial rebuild of ANY engine that has overheated or suffered any major mechanical failure is not recommended especially in such a "Thermally challenged" engine.
A few dealers over the last few years now think they can repair these engines in house cheaply and save a few quid, one I know is actively buying cars with damaged engines.Under the heading of cause and effect and a good value future proof repair this is not a good scenario given the myriad of potential failure causes.
A word of warning, a partial rebuild of ANY engine that has overheated or suffered any major mechanical failure is not recommended especially in such a "Thermally challenged" engine.
A few dealers over the last few years now think they can repair these engines in house cheaply and save a few quid, one I know is actively buying cars with damaged engines.Under the heading of cause and effect and a good value future proof repair this is not a good scenario given the myriad of potential failure causes.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I think he's asking:Who builds the replacement engines? Technicians at the OPC, or factory guys at the Factory in Germany (and supplied to OPC plug and play)?
If the engines are built by technicians at OPC, what evidence is there that they'll be less reliable than the original factory unit?
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I would argue Hartech's 'generalist workshop' is more than a match for the factory specialist engine production unit for process control, quality control, yada yada.Precisely because they are away from a mass-production environment, the attention to detail can be greater (in a similar vein to the marketing of AMG engines vs standard MB engines, i.e. "handbuilt" and one person solely responsible for that engine).
As an aside, why the f**k do you have to be so rude? Are you this objectionable in person?
My 981s Boxster is up for its 2nd birthday next month.
Is the consensus that one should buy the extended warranty?
Thanks!
(Haven't read all 30 pages of this thread, so apologies if repost, but it seems unclear a to whether these problems are a thing of the past or still worth being worried about)
Is the consensus that one should buy the extended warranty?
Thanks!
(Haven't read all 30 pages of this thread, so apologies if repost, but it seems unclear a to whether these problems are a thing of the past or still worth being worried about)
anonymous said:
[redacted]
You're right, you didn't. You were non-specific.If you read it properly, you'll see that you actually wrote:
"Because a generalist workshop doing the odd rebuild is not going to match a factory specialist engine production unit for process control, quality control, yada yada"
Hartech is a 'generalist workshop', and is definitely not a 'factory specialist engine production unit', the very distinction you made as justification for turning out poorer engines.
so a generalist workshop doing the odd rebuild can be more than a match for a factory specialist engine production unit for process control, quality control.
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