OMG! What's happened to used 997 prices? Be very afraid...

[Wills2]

Yes detail below.


Porsche Financial Services Online Calculator
Solutions is a flexible personal contract plan which could help you drive the Porsche you really want. Solutions is highly flexible and adaptable, matching your preferred repayment profile against a set mileage and agreed period of use between twenty four months and forty eight months
Porsche 911 Carrera S
Total price for your configured car: £ 81,242.00


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min. 10.0 % max. 25.0 %
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min. 5,000 miles max. 25,000 miles
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Solutions representative example from Porsche Financial Services based on 10,000 miles per annum for Porsche 911 Carrera S


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Deposit: £ 20,310.50
Annual Mileage: 10,000
Duration (Months): 36

Finance Example
35 payments of £ 917.70
Final payment £ 43,057.56
Total Amount Payable £ 95,582.56
Amount Financed £ 60,931.50
Representative APR 9.50 % APR
Rate of interest 9.50 % fixed
Excess Mileage 28.20p per mile



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[pikey]

I don't think the prices have moved a scary amount.

In July last year I sold a Dec '07 C2S (with large amount of options) to an OPC. Looking at what the asking price on the same age/mileage/spec car currently is, it's about £10k less, which is about what I would have expected.

I think the % rate the prices come down is generally consistent. It's a lot of £££, but has always been this way.

[jonny996]

Wills2 said:

Yes detail below.

Deposit: £ 20,310.50
Annual Mileage: 10,000
Duration (Months): 36

Finance Example
35 payments of £ 917.70
Final payment £ 43,057.56
Total Amount Payable £ 95,582.56
Amount Financed £ 60,931.50
Representative APR 9.50 % APR
Rate of interest 9.50 % fixed
Excess Mileage 28.20p per mile

Do the man maths and that breaks down to £2.15 per hour for a brand new porsche!!! mind that is every hour of every day;)

[Carl_Docklands]

PedroPistol said:

What seems to be missing from this tread is the fact that although 911 residuals have historically been good in percentage terms at say 65% retained value at 3 years, this still represents an absolute depreciation of perhaps £800 per month for a decent spec C2S or above. For the 991 even the most optimistic will be hard pressed to believe better than 50% residual at 3 years. Factor in the real world price increases and you are looking at probably £1200 to £1500 per month depreciation. No finance, lease, PCP etc, etc, deal can change this IMO.

On a 991C2S, £100k spec, with 10% deposit, 36 month term, the cost is in the region of £1650 p/m with a 50% residual (including options). It might hit the 65% residual figure if you strip the options out.

[Vroomer]

Carl_Docklands said:

On a 991C2S, £100k spec, with 10% deposit, 36 month term, the cost is in the region of £1650 p/m with a 50% residual (including options). It might hit the 65% residual figure if you strip the options out.

Does the £10k deposit have to be added on to that?

£10k over 36 months =£278 pm, so total true cost £1650+278 = £1928 pm??

[rob.kellock]

Last week I was offered a brand new (to my spec) £50k BMW 530d GT for £2k deposit and £399 per month + VAT for 24 months, contract hire. I believe any BMW dealer can currently offer this. The dealer even offered to take my car as part exchange and give me cash back for the difference over the level of the deposit.

Looks like you could have 4 of them for the cost of one 991!!

In true Pistonheads style, I have decided to refuse the fugly new car, save £10k, keep my car and still have something to drive around in in 2 years time...

[SFO]

rob.kellock said:

Last week I was offered a brand new (to my spec) £50k BMW 530d GT for £2k deposit and £399 per month + VAT for 24 months, contract hire.

5 GT not a looker but has a wonderful interior.

That's a pretty good deal.

[whiteshark]

Was offered a nearly new 997 GTS 11 plate for circa 70k.

Was horrified at the ballon after 3 years of Porsche finance = 46,700 final payment. No way is the car worth that after 3 years looking at the current market. This was not a GFV either like you get with a PCP on a new car... so you would be screwed once the term was over. Not only would you have to hand the car back, but you would also have to pay to get out of the finance.

Great sales ploy though to try to make the monthly payments affordable @ circa £850 per month... just does not stack up for me... you gotta be crazy.

ING are offering a residual of 27k on this car after 4 years which is probably more realistic with £1000 per month.

[PedroPistol]

Vroomer said:

Carl_Docklands said:

On a 991C2S, £100k spec, with 10% deposit, 36 month term, the cost is in the region of £1650 p/m with a 50% residual (including options). It might hit the 65% residual figure if you strip the options out.

Does the £10k deposit have to be added on to that?

£10k over 36 months =£278 pm, so total true cost £1650+278 = £1928 pm??

That's my point, 65% was probably a historical best and not likely to be achieved in the future. For a new 911 your real world spend is going to be £1500 plus per month at least.

I have some real examples of running costs for some nice wheels going back to the late 70's, including Porks. I don't want to bore the ar5e of everybody. If anyone is interested, I'll post them. It's very illuminating.

[drpep]

Wow, I can think of much better ways to spend that. Sure the 991 will be a great steer if not as involving as the 997 on account of the electric steering. Such an achievement makIng a C2S as fast as the outgoing GT3 round a certain notable track.

[g7jhp]

So do when do we think a Gen 2 997 C2S will be sub £40k?

[mollytherocker]

drmark said:

mollytherocker said:

Are you telling me that you dont know how to limit or protect yourself from the effects of depreciation?

How odd.

MTR

Peter, depreciation is unavoidable if you want to drive a new, or nearly new Porsche (GT2 aside). No matter what fancy methods people use to buy / lease / rent it - you end dropping your trousers.

Old pork is very different, which is why I run a 1970 911s and a 968 CS - little depreciation but massive running costs!

Hi

The original comment was that there was 'nothing you can do about depreciation, get over it', or something similar. This is not true. Heres a few things you can do off the top of my head;

Buy at the right time. (Time of year/time of month/model cycle/etc)
Choose your model carefully
Choose your spec carefully - Dont go crazy on options.
Buy at the lowest possible price without compromising quality. You dont have to buy at an OPC.
Look after and maintain your car correctly during ownership.
Consider its use against other cars you may own. Could you lower your mileage use without reducing your enjoyment? i.e; use another car for some journeys?
Sell it for the max possible - Maybe private, not trade in.

All of these will have an effect directly on depreciation. Combined, it can be significant and certainly could be a 5 figure sum over say 3 years and reduce your ownership cost.

And remember, this is exponential. You will have more cash for your next car, and can then make even more savings.

Or you can just do it how you want to do it, thats just fine. But dont then say that there is 'nothing' that you can do about it.

MTR

[LuckyP]

whiteshark said:

Was offered a nearly new 997 GTS 11 plate for circa 70k.

Was horrified at the ballon after 3 years of Porsche finance = 46,700 final payment. No way is the car worth that after 3 years looking at the current market. This was not a GFV either like you get with a PCP on a new car... so you would be screwed once the term was over. Not only would you have to hand the car back, but you would also have to pay to get out of the finance.

Great sales ploy though to try to make the monthly payments affordable @ circa £850 per month... just does not stack up for me... you gotta be crazy.

ING are offering a residual of 27k on this car after 4 years which is probably more realistic with £1000 per month.

Welcome whiteshark! broke yer duck I see!!

[kbf1981]

PedroPistol said:

What seems to be missing from this tread is the fact that although 911 residuals have historically been good in percentage terms at say 65% retained value at 3 years, this still represents an absolute depreciation of perhaps £800 per month for a decent spec C2S or above. For the 991 even the most optimistic will be hard pressed to believe better than 50% residual at 3 years. Factor in the real world price increases and you are looking at probably £1200 to £1500 per month depreciation. No finance, lease, PCP etc, etc, deal can change this IMO.

I always have the cost of any car in my head as 50% over 3yrs (plus tyres at £300 a corner).

To be honest though, if you wanted to get something the next level up, you'd be looking at a min of £2400 per month all in (say in something like this: http://www2.mercedes-benz.co.uk/content/unitedking... ). That's a subsidised deal. Buying new is expensive.

Edited by kbf1981 on Friday 25th November 19:45

[ForzaWhitesGen2]

g7jhp said:

So do when do we think a Gen 2 997 C2S will be sub £40k?

Next year... March?? depending on mileage.......

I was offered a 2009 Gen2 997 C2S for GBP52K (good spec) back in June ........8K miles

[KH]

911fan said:

We here are all lucky.

Enjoy today if you are able to do so. Think a little about tomorrow; beyond that who knows what awaits us.

I like that.

Unless you've signed into a hp or leasing thing, if you lose £20k on your £80k car when you sell it, you're still rich. If you lose £20k on your £50k car when you sell it you're still rich, you've still got thirty grand in your pocket.If you end up with only about £15k in your pocket, you've still got enough money for a nice car - you've still probably got more money than loads of other people.

[kbf1981]

KH said:

911fan said:

We here are all lucky.

Enjoy today if you are able to do so. Think a little about tomorrow; beyond that who knows what awaits us.

I like that.

Unless you've signed into a hp or leasing thing, if you lose £20k on your £80k car when you sell it, you're still rich. If you lose £20k on your £50k car when you sell it you're still rich, you've still got thirty grand in your pocket.If you end up with only about £15k in your pocket, you've still got enough money for a nice car - you've still probably got more money than loads of other people.

I heard a guy say once, you can always make more money but you can't buy anymore time.

The prices will start to stabilise - has anyone read the threads from 2008 where everyone thought you'd be able to pick up 997's for £15k at some point "soon", and F430's for below £50k, and Gallardo's for £40k? Didn't happen. We've got the EU thing, it's Christmas, and horrible economic data coming out, but things will start to improve at some point. You're picking up bargains now imho.

[all2ofme]

I'm almost pleased I sold my 997 after reading this thread. Great car though it was!

Still, even though I lost a packet, it was worth every penny.

Edited by all2ofme on Friday 25th November 20:10

[KH]

...a friend who works in London is suicidal because his £230k projected bonus has been reduced to £90k. He's crying because he wanted to buy a small weekend flat in Cornwall for cash and now he can't. I said, grow up, you've still got ninety grand more than the rest of us. Be grateful and enjoy what you've got. Didn't work. No-one help people who are obsessed with money.

I'm really glad I haven't got any.

Edited by KH on Friday 25th November 20:28

[mollytherocker]

KH said:

...a friend who works in London is suicidal because his £230k projected bonus has been reduced to £90k. He's almost crying because he wanted to buy a small weekend flat in Cornwall for cash and now he can't. I said, grow up, you've still got ninety grand more than us lot. Be grateful and enjoy it you rich fool. Didn't work. Still whingeing.

Edited by KH on Friday 25th November 20:25

Its all relative isnt it. At the other end of the scale, you see people moaning that they are in genuine poverty. The BBC interview them in their council flats and they moan how they cant feed their children.

In the background lurks a 40" TV. Sky, PS3 etc etc.

My parents didnt get carpets in their house for 7 years! I can rememember the cold floor boards! And you know what, they were not poor and I had a great childhood.

God, I sound like that Monty Python sketch.

MTR