OMG! What's happened to used 997 prices? Be very afraid...

[jackal]

MadMark911 said:

Ahh - I'm obviously becoming too prudent in my old age, because although I could buy a new 991, I just can't justify it to myself. Therefore I have a 4 year old 997 (that I think is 80% of the 991 for 40% of the cost). I already know what I want next and it'll probably be a late 2011 GTS (or similar) in late 2013 .....

Ahh but that's a totally different set of emotions and not necessarily mutually exclusive IMO.

I am exactly the same. I have to very carefully justify every single purchase I make. I hate waste and frivolity. It actually get's so profound and complicated sometimes that it becomes very counter productive. I was in PC world only this morning buying a laser printer as my existing one died on me last night. It took me well over an hour to make the decision to buy one and spend a certain amount of money. Then I finally got to the till and the lady asked me if I wanted extended warranty for just £10 ... that really sent me into a panic !!! All this trouble over a measley £40 yet at the same time I am saving for a Ferrai which will cost 2000 times as much. It's almost an illness... it doesn't make sense.

[gibbon]

jackal said:

Ahh but that's a totally different set of emotions and not necessarily mutually exclusive IMO.

I am exactly the same. I have to very carefully justify every single purchase I make. I hate waste and frivolity. It actually get's so profound and complicated sometimes that it becomes very counter productive. I was in PC world only this morning buying a laser printer as my existing one died on me last night. It took me well over an hour to make the decision to buy one and spend a certain amount of money. Then I finally got to the till and the lady asked me if I wanted extended warranty for just £10 ... that really sent me into a panic !!! It's almost an illness.

Im very similar, im very calculated in most purchases i make. I almost annoy myself sometimes by how much i consider things.

[MadMark911]

gibbon said:

jackal said:

Ahh but that's a totally different set of emotions and not necessarily mutually exclusive IMO.

I am exactly the same. I have to very carefully justify every single purchase I make. I hate waste and frivolity. It actually get's so profound and complicated sometimes that it becomes very counter productive. I was in PC world only this morning buying a laser printer as my existing one died on me last night. It took me well over an hour to make the decision to buy one and spend a certain amount of money. Then I finally got to the till and the lady asked me if I wanted extended warranty for just £10 ... that really sent me into a panic !!! It's almost an illness.

Im very similar, im very calculated in most purchases i make. I almost annoy myself sometimes by how much i consider things.

LOL! I get that - I've spent the last 3 weeks researching a new TV for my bedroom (Samsung or Panasonic 32"), a new Denon AV Receiver (going to wait for the new 4312 model to come out), who to get to detail my car etc. So is it an age thing? I never used to be like this, but somehow it feels more comfortable buying things when you've budgeted for them and are well informed through research!

[gibbon]

MadMark911 said:

LOL! I get that - I've spent the last 3 weeks researching a new TV for my bedroom (Samsung or Panasonic 32"), a new Denon AV Receiver (going to wait for the new 4312 model to come out), who to get to detail my car etc. So is it an age thing? I never used to be like this, but somehow it feels more comfortable buying things when you've budgeted for them and are well informed through research!

I dont know if its an age thing im 29, and i do think im getting worse. Im just having a wetroom put into my flat and have been agonising over bl00dy shower fittings. Nightmare.

[doneitnow]

gibbon said:

Im very similar, im very calculated in most purchases i make. I almost annoy myself sometimes by how much i consider things.

And then after all that we still make the wrong blooming decision

[MadMark911]

doneitnow said:

And then after all that we still make the wrong blooming decision

Is that the "royal" we?

[doneitnow]

MadMark911 said:

Is that the "royal" we?

Yep, really should stop looking once you take the plunge as something that looks better always comes up after.

[gibbon]

doneitnow said:

Yep, really should stop looking once you take the plunge as something that looks better always comes up after.

Thats the key wording there, 'looks' better, often in reality it wont be better. Same with any big purchase really.

[doneitnow]

gibbon said:

Thats the key wording there, 'looks' better, often in reality it wont be better. Same with any big purchase really.

I started off looking at 911's as my first porka, test drove a few and loved them, have loved them since I was a child like most, then you start talking and listening to people, took a cayman s for a test and loved it,(still do) bought it, saved myself circa 10k in the process (happy days)but it is not a 911 lol and I keep looking at them, so much so I can see myself ending up with two to fulfil my needs!!!

[MadMark911]

doneitnow said:

I started off looking at 911's as my first porka, test drove a few and loved them, have loved them since I was a child like most, then you start talking and listening to people, took a cayman s for a test and loved it,(still do) bought it, saved myself circa 10k in the process (happy days)but it is not a 911 lol and I keep looking at them, so much so I can see myself ending up with two to fulfil my needs!!!

Spooky, but same here, except I had the Boxster 3.4 first .... Now I've got a 911 - I don't think I'll be able to go back! The Cayman S is a cracker, such a good car - it really should be enough ...

doneitnow said:

Yep, really should stop looking once you take the plunge as something that looks better always comes up after.

I know the feeling - especially when I saw a 2007 Slate Grey Metallic GT3 in PC Swindon ...

[jackal]

MadMark911 said:

gibbon said:

jackal said:

Ahh but that's a totally different set of emotions and not necessarily mutually exclusive IMO.

I am exactly the same. I have to very carefully justify every single purchase I make. I hate waste and frivolity. It actually get's so profound and complicated sometimes that it becomes very counter productive. I was in PC world only this morning buying a laser printer as my existing one died on me last night. It took me well over an hour to make the decision to buy one and spend a certain amount of money. Then I finally got to the till and the lady asked me if I wanted extended warranty for just £10 ... that really sent me into a panic !!! It's almost an illness.

Im very similar, im very calculated in most purchases i make. I almost annoy myself sometimes by how much i consider things.

LOL! I get that - I've spent the last 3 weeks researching a new TV for my bedroom (Samsung or Panasonic 32"), a new Denon AV Receiver (going to wait for the new 4312 model to come out), who to get to detail my car etc. So is it an age thing? I never used to be like this, but somehow it feels more comfortable buying things when you've budgeted for them and are well informed through research!

I think its partly an age thing but partly been made possible ad infinitum by the internet and online shopping. The worst is when you do all your research and then you get it wrong or make a bad choice .... man that is so frustrating. But thanks to the wonders of ebay you can soon correct bad purchases.

[oyster]

J-P said:

oyster said:

Scelto said:

oyster said:

That's great for you. But you are in a very small minority who plainly have enough cash to cope with financial shocks. A very small minority even of Porsche owners.

I can't imagine why anybody would classify depreciation as a "financial shock"!

Depreciation above the norm may be.

If you bought a £50k car expecting to get £25k back after 4 years of ownership, only to find it was worth £18k, that may come as a shock.


Of course the fact that a car, particularly a new, mass-produced car depreciates at all should not be a shock.

The reason why depreciation threads are pointless is that nobody knows what will happen and timescales are never clear at outset. I mean if somebody had told me that Ford RS1800s would be worth a small fortune in 30+ years. I'd have thought them barking! If again somebody had said that RS500s would sell for a premium, similar story. This is why so many people say just drive it and enjoy it, forget depreciation because ultimately worrying about its future value (which you have no control over) ruins the ownership experience.

If you bought a car expecting it to always remain at a certain value, then you have deluded yourself. You should just buy it and enjoy it and thank your lucky stars, you've been fortunate enough to have had one! This is the main reason why we should envy the old - nobody can take away what they have had and experienced, the young, however have it all to lose!

You've missed my point. I have already stated that no-one should expect a car not to lose value - we're agreed on that.
Where I disagree with you is whether anyone should worry about an asset's future value? You state that worrying about future value ruins the ownership experience, why would that be? That can only be the case if you enter into a purchase with fingers over your ears - a very immature attitude with money.
Is that what we expect people to do with housing purchases, or business purchases? And if not, why would it be acceptable with a car purchase?


Here's how I look at it:

Let's say I have £500 per month of disposable income that I am happy to blow on a car. I could either lease a car for £500 a month (ignoring fuel costs), or I could buy a car and assume that depreciation plus running costs would cost me that same £500 a month (£6k a year).
And being sensible I'd assume a slightly worse rate of depreciation than forecast or expected. So assuming running costs are £2k a year, I'd allow £1k for worse-than-expected depreciation, leaving me with £3k for expected depreciation - which may allow me to buy a £30k 997 or something like that.

[tomw2000]

mollytherocker said:

Spot on. Once you understand and accept this, you can enjoy your life much more.

I am very happy with my old 993 and if I keep it forever, then great. It doesnt stop me wanting a 997GT3RS, but I know that the pleasure increment wont actually be as much as I might think.

In fact, it could possibly be less pleasurable. I doubt it though!!!

MTR

+1 spot on yerself..

I sometimes spend days thinking about how much I 'need' a 997 Turbo or a GT3....but then - the incremental increase (in happiness) is probably minimal. But doesn't stop us yearning....

(obviously I could spend the time yearning, EARNing....then my dreams could come true ).

Edited by tomw2000 on Wednesday 25th January 19:02

[doneitnow]

You only live once, life is too short so make sure you ENJOY it

[uktrailmonster]

tuffer said:

uktrailmonster said:

tuffer said:

people spend £xxxK on a house and expect it to appreciate in value.

Well in the long term houses usually do appreciate in value, so the expectation is more realistic. Brand new cars on the other hand....

Yep, you buy them for £200K, you eventually pay £400K over 25 years and then its worth £300K. Over simplified just to get my point across.

Are you saying that you got shafted on your house and on your car then? But even with your over-simplistic calc, you get to live in the house for 25 years at a net cost of only £4K per year.

[gibbon]

uktrailmonster said:

Are you saying that you got shafted on your house and on your car then? But even with your over-simplistic calc, you get to live in the house for 25 years at a net cost of only £4K per year.

Yes, and at the end, it is still worth roughly the money it has cost you. st analogy.

[paul0843]

Imo The guy who buys new a 997 for £100k and after 3years it's worth £50k has not done it because his
stupid or a fool,but because to him this was worth it to have a new car to his spec..
This same guy I would bet would not pay a fiver for a magazine if he picked it up and felt it was only worth £4..
The guy who buys it at £50k,knows it wil be £25k at 6 years old,but does not want a 6 year old car
and so pays the price..
I think what I am trying to say is that there is always a price to pay for our enjoyment ..
What that price is depends on the depth of our pockets and the desire of ownership..

[tuffer]

It's quite simple guys, if you are concerned about depreciation just go and buy something else, really can't see what all the fuss is about. If you ever thought you were going to buy a volume produced car and not lose money then you are deluded.
If you can afford to buy and run it and that is what you want then go ahead, enjoy yourself. Don't get upset when it is worth fk all after a few years. If you want to hear something really funny, I bought one of the first MGF's when they came out (tax free over in Germany) and sold it for £3K profit after 6 months, it was an absolute PoS and the worst car I have ever owned.
My GTS on the other hand could be worthless after 2 or 3 years for all I care as it has, and will continue to, give me immense pleasure in that time. When you work hard for something you may as well enjoy it, I sacrificed a great deal of time away from home and work long hours so I make the most of it. A 2 minute trip to Tesco's has never felt so good, F it, you can't take it with you.

PS, my house is fine thanks, it is not on an estate and it has certainly not shafted me. Besides, for someone who left school with no qualifications I have not done bad, never claimed any benefits and pay plenty of tax each year.

[uktrailmonster]

No argument from me there, but pissing money away on nice cars is really not the same thing as buying a house. That's all

[J-P]

uktrailmonster said:

No argument from me there, but pissing money away on nice cars is really not the same thing as buying a house. That's all

If we're talking about depreciation, then yes in the UK (especially the south east) it's completely different but that's only because houses are scarce. In the US there are plenty of people who have been fked by house price depreciation. If you have a desirable but scarce car, then guess what it could actually go up in value! GT3 RS 4.0 anyone?