OMG! What's happened to used 997 prices? Be very afraid...
Discussion
Ian_UK1 said:
I was just having a browse through Autotrader (as you do) and thought I'd try to get a quick idea what my car might be worth.
OMFG! I'm still in shock as I'm typing this! What the hell's happened? When did the ar*e fall-out of the 997 prices? Since when have 2010 997S Gen-2s with under 20,000 miles on them only been worth just over £50k?
[...]
The car originally sold to its first owner for circa £84,000 (it's got a reasonably good spec) and it isn't even 2 years old until Jan 2012. And it's now worth early £50,000s (or even less as a trade-in)? That's £35,000+ depreciation in only 22 months. OUCH!
That sounds like an absolute bargain for somebody!OMFG! I'm still in shock as I'm typing this! What the hell's happened? When did the ar*e fall-out of the 997 prices? Since when have 2010 997S Gen-2s with under 20,000 miles on them only been worth just over £50k?
[...]
The car originally sold to its first owner for circa £84,000 (it's got a reasonably good spec) and it isn't even 2 years old until Jan 2012. And it's now worth early £50,000s (or even less as a trade-in)? That's £35,000+ depreciation in only 22 months. OUCH!
I was considering chopping my car in for a turbo a while ago and even the piss-poor OPC trade-in offer was £54k for my 20k mile 2009 C4S, before any negotiation on the total figure-to-change.
That was in October.
I don't lose any sleep over depreciation, but I appreciate that it's important to others. Has it really ever been any different for "current" Porches though?
We lost £15k in a year on my wife's ex-demo Boxster (OPC purchase to OPC trade-in).
If your wanting a cheap car wait until the new models hits the U.K.in the new year, and you should be able to secure a sub 20k 997 fairly easy. As well as production numbers of the 997 being well over 1/4 million units, all the other trends are stacked against future values not least the economy and consumer confidence. Perhaps the only good thing about the mass produced car's values dropping like a stone, is that folk further down the wealth ladder who have shown some sense with personal finances and not borrowed to excess to achieve the dream will be the winners in the future.
It's a fact of life that if you cant afford to take the hit on a new/nearly new car, you really cant afford the car, no matter how dealers try to flower it up.
It's a fact of life that if you cant afford to take the hit on a new/nearly new car, you really cant afford the car, no matter how dealers try to flower it up.
Scelto said:
Ian_UK1 said:
I was just having a browse through Autotrader (as you do) and thought I'd try to get a quick idea what my car might be worth.
OMFG! I'm still in shock as I'm typing this! What the hell's happened? When did the ar*e fall-out of the 997 prices? Since when have 2010 997S Gen-2s with under 20,000 miles on them only been worth just over £50k?
[...]
The car originally sold to its first owner for circa £84,000 (it's got a reasonably good spec) and it isn't even 2 years old until Jan 2012. And it's now worth early £50,000s (or even less as a trade-in)? That's £35,000+ depreciation in only 22 months. OUCH!
That sounds like an absolute bargain for somebody!OMFG! I'm still in shock as I'm typing this! What the hell's happened? When did the ar*e fall-out of the 997 prices? Since when have 2010 997S Gen-2s with under 20,000 miles on them only been worth just over £50k?
[...]
The car originally sold to its first owner for circa £84,000 (it's got a reasonably good spec) and it isn't even 2 years old until Jan 2012. And it's now worth early £50,000s (or even less as a trade-in)? That's £35,000+ depreciation in only 22 months. OUCH!
Dazza N said:
The retail market is very slow which is great for our market which is leasing. All the surplus stock is being reduced ans passed on to us to sell Depreciation is not a problem if you lease If it goes up in value buy it if it depreciates lease it
I still struggle with people who make comments like this - do you really think that if you lease a car you don’t suffer the depreciation? That somehow the lease company is happy to take the depreciation on your behalf?!! All that happens is that the lease costs factors in the depreciation plus some contingency margin plus the lease company's profit margin on top!!
Sidicks
mft said:
It'll be interesting to see how much your 'bargain' is worth in 6 months time. With prices the way they look, and the 991 just about to appear, can you really imagine it not continuing to drop £1k+ per month?
If the values drop another £5000 in the wake of the 991's release then my car, from new, will have lost half its value in 2 years at a rate of about £2000 per month. As was said earlier in the thread, the point I was making wasn't that depreciation isn't expected, it's that it has gone from relatively gentle to truly epic where the Carrera/S is concerned. One of the justifications (if that's the right word) for buying Porsche - other than the fantastic drive - was always that depreciation wasn't as severe as other cars. Now it's just as bad (if not worse) and still getting steeper. Where does it all go from here? Will prices recover or is this the beginning of the permanent downward spiral for performance cars in general (as is being discussed in another thread)? In the absence of a crystal ball, there are, of course, no real answers, but I'd be interested in people's views.
sidicks said:
Dazza N said:
The retail market is very slow which is great for our market which is leasing. All the surplus stock is being reduced ans passed on to us to sell Depreciation is not a problem if you lease If it goes up in value buy it if it depreciates lease it
I still struggle with people who make comments like this - do you really think that if you lease a car you don’t suffer the depreciation? That somehow the lease company is happy to take the depreciation on your behalf?!! All that happens is that the lease costs factors in the depreciation plus some contingency margin plus the lease company's profit margin on top!!
Sidicks
MTR
RiccardoG said:
RudeDog said:
Fat Albert said:
As I was reading this these two adverts popped into my Facebook page:
http://www.dovehousecars.com/vehicles/vehicle.asp?...
http://www.dovehousecars.com/vehicles/vehicle.asp?...
£1k apart, same age, alright the 996 is a 4S, but the 997 is high spec....which do you choose?
Surely you'd get a Cayman instead of either of those?http://www.dovehousecars.com/vehicles/vehicle.asp?...
http://www.dovehousecars.com/vehicles/vehicle.asp?...
£1k apart, same age, alright the 996 is a 4S, but the 997 is high spec....which do you choose?
I'd go for the 997.
Actually, that car is nearly exactly what I am looking for, will givem them a ring. Anyone dealt with them in the past or bought cars off them?
I have not bought from Dove house, but know the owner, he is an enthusiast and has just built a new service centre run by Porsche-trained chaps
Ian_UK1 said:
If the values drop another £5000 in the wake of the 991's release then my car, from new, will have lost half its value in 2 years at a rate of about £2000 per month. As was said earlier in the thread, the point I was making wasn't that depreciation isn't expected, it's that it has gone from relatively gentle to truly epic where the Carrera/S is concerned. One of the justifications (if that's the right word) for buying Porsche - other than the fantastic drive - was always that depreciation wasn't as severe as other cars. Now it's just as bad (if not worse) and still getting steeper.
Where does it all go from here? Will prices recover or is this the beginning of the permanent downward spiral for performance cars in general (as is being discussed in another thread)? In the absence of a crystal ball, there are, of course, no real answers, but I'd be interested in people's views.
Its still way better than similarish M motors or AMGs for example.Where does it all go from here? Will prices recover or is this the beginning of the permanent downward spiral for performance cars in general (as is being discussed in another thread)? In the absence of a crystal ball, there are, of course, no real answers, but I'd be interested in people's views.
mollytherocker said:
Its hilarious is'nt it. I cant believe that people still think this.
MTR
The only justification for this is on mass market cars, where lease companies can order hundreds, achieve huge fleet discounts and pass on that saving to the customer. Whilst a Porsche is no longer a niche product, it's not quite at the "mass market, fleet discount" level yet....!!MTR
Sidicks
Bill Stein said:
If your wanting a cheap car wait until the new models hits the U.K.in the new year, and you should be able to secure a sub 20k 997 fairly easy. As well as production numbers of the 997 being well over 1/4 million units, all the other trends are stacked against future values not least the economy and consumer confidence. Perhaps the only good thing about the mass produced car's values dropping like a stone, is that folk further down the wealth ladder who have shown some sense with personal finances and not borrowed to excess to achieve the dream will be the winners in the future.
It's a fact of life that if you cant afford to take the hit on a new/nearly new car, you really cant afford the car, no matter how dealers try to flower it up.
Are you for real?It's a fact of life that if you cant afford to take the hit on a new/nearly new car, you really cant afford the car, no matter how dealers try to flower it up.
So if I'm reading correctly you're suggesting that owners of £30k 997s are all going to rush out and pony up an extra £60-70,000 to pop their bottoms in a new 911, thus releasing a flood of car's onto the market which will drive 997s under the £20k mark.
I would humbly suggest that the reason someone buys a £30k 997 is because they want to try and reduce depreciation to bearable amounts. They certainly don't want to lose £30-40k in the first 3 years of the car's life. I would imagine many of the new 911 buyers have already got shot of their old cars in readiness. What will actually happen is the new 911 will generate interest in Porsche as a brand, people will have a look to see what's available in their price range and actually early 997s will continue to be seen as good news.
There are some really wacky ideas floating around on here at times.
Of course if I'm wrong and 997s are set to be £15k in the trade £18,995 on the forecourt then now is the time to sell us your 997 because we are still buying in with somewhat more positive thoughts on price
As ever....
Henry
Bill Stein said:
Perhaps the only good thing about the mass produced car's values dropping like a stone, is that folk further down the wealth ladder who have shown some sense with personal finances and not borrowed to excess to achieve the dream will be the winners in the future.
That would be me Bought a well specced 2005 Boxster S in February 2008 in a private sale with cash. Costs have been within budget, and I will probably be looking at a Gen 2 997 C2S in a couple of years time.nickfrog said:
ROK said:
i'm amazed at people who shed tears about auto depreciation. it's a fact of life. you know it's there. it's going to happen. there should be no surprise in it.
you also benefit from it as you are also negatively impacted by it. move on already. the car is an expense.
Sorry I totally disagree. The subject of the topic is not depreciation per se but how values (of all cars and particularly Porsches) have fallen off a cliff over the past 2/3 months, which is a fact that can't just be explained by the time of year but by the accumulation of other factors.you also benefit from it as you are also negatively impacted by it. move on already. the car is an expense.
Sales of expensive cars slow up a lot over winter which depresses prices. Add in the fact that there is serious problems in the Euro zone with a lot of uncertainty which exacerbates matters.
As said I cant believe that anoyone buys a mass produced car without realising its going to shed significant money over a few years. Unless you can afford big bucks for something like a GT3RS 4.0 or a 458 Spider you are always going to shed a lot of cash.
I also cant understand why some people are willing to take a big hit just to replace a car which is perhaps 10% better than their existing car. I'd suggest that 99% of owners arent capable of getting anywhere close to what their car is capable of. Rather than spend £30k+ trading up from a 3.8 RS to a 4.0 RS just spend a few hundred on driver training and learn how to drive quicker!
Fat Albert said:
I would go for the 997 (or a nice 964 Turbo...;¬) ) as I need a 2+2
I have not bought from Dove house, but know the owner, he is an enthusiast and has just built a new service centre run by Porsche-trained chaps
Thanks for the info, its interesting to know as they do seem to have some nice 997s.I have not bought from Dove house, but know the owner, he is an enthusiast and has just built a new service centre run by Porsche-trained chaps
mollytherocker said:
sidicks said:
Dazza N said:
The retail market is very slow which is great for our market which is leasing. All the surplus stock is being reduced ans passed on to us to sell Depreciation is not a problem if you lease If it goes up in value buy it if it depreciates lease it
I still struggle with people who make comments like this - do you really think that if you lease a car you don’t suffer the depreciation? That somehow the lease company is happy to take the depreciation on your behalf?!! All that happens is that the lease costs factors in the depreciation plus some contingency margin plus the lease company's profit margin on top!!
Sidicks
MTR
Chipper said:
I've had four dealers chasing me for a deposit on the new 991. I always remember speaking to a salesman about what the GFV would be on one as my specced car was coming out at just under £95000. He was shocked that I was considering such a massively specced vehicle only for me to tell him that is was just a nicely specced PDK c2s. He hadn't even seen the option list or prices on the new 991 and was slightly set back when he looked them up.
Follow on to another dealer that chased for a deposit and after a brief conversation that i wanted to wait for a used vehicle he informed me that a lot of people were pulling out. This was a few months ago but to be honest the economic situation now is a lot worse so it would be interesting to know if a early delivery is still available ?
Does anyone have any GFV for the 991 yet?
I was offered Dec slot, for delivery in Dec 11 .. this was 5 weeks ago.Follow on to another dealer that chased for a deposit and after a brief conversation that i wanted to wait for a used vehicle he informed me that a lot of people were pulling out. This was a few months ago but to be honest the economic situation now is a lot worse so it would be interesting to know if a early delivery is still available ?
Does anyone have any GFV for the 991 yet?
Bill Stein said:
If your wanting a cheap car wait until the new models hits the U.K.in the new year, and you should be able to secure a sub 20k 997 fairly easy. As well as production numbers of the 997 being well over 1/4 million units, all the other trends are stacked against future values not least the economy and consumer confidence. Perhaps the only good thing about the mass produced car's values dropping like a stone, is that folk further down the wealth ladder who have shown some sense with personal finances and not borrowed to excess to achieve the dream will be the winners in the future.
It's a fact of life that if you cant afford to take the hit on a new/nearly new car, you really cant afford the car, no matter how dealers try to flower it up.
It's also a fact that the more these cars become "affordable"....the less aspirational they are. Look at BMW's....in the 80's these were aspirational yuppie cars, now they're too common and cheap, they're just a nice Mondeo.It's a fact of life that if you cant afford to take the hit on a new/nearly new car, you really cant afford the car, no matter how dealers try to flower it up.
And to be honest...the best way for someone "further down the wealth ladder" to get a nice car, is to climb further up the wealth ladder themselves, not hope that others do badly. What about ambition?
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