OMG! What's happened to used 997 prices? Be very afraid...
Discussion
kbf1981 said:
Don't wish depreciation on others, that's f
king sad, instead raise yourself higher if you want nicer things. I don't cross my fingers and hope a new 458 depreciates to £20k.....I work hard so I can afford the £200k optioned up price.
I don't think anyone here has said they wish depreciation on others.king sad, instead raise yourself higher if you want nicer things. I don't cross my fingers and hope a new 458 depreciates to £20k.....I work hard so I can afford the £200k optioned up price.I had a budget. I was originally looking at used S2000 this time around. Prices then dropped so much that decent Boxster came into budget, so I bought one.
kbf1981 said:
Exactly.
Don't wish depreciation on others, that's fking sad, instead raise yourself higher if you want nicer things. I don't cross my fingers and hope a new 458 depreciates to £20k.....I work hard so I can afford the £200k optioned up price.
Hmm. For me it was the question "What about ambition?" that got me a little aerated. The way it was written and context suggested that the sole arbiter of the level of one's ambition was the creation of greater wealth. Something I have always been a little defensive of given that I have not followed the herd and chased the money, yet I would rate my ambitions as being just as, if not far more, difficult to achieve than the old retire at 50 mantra of those chasing the money.Don't wish depreciation on others, that's f
king sad, instead raise yourself higher if you want nicer things. I don't cross my fingers and hope a new 458 depreciates to £20k.....I work hard so I can afford the £200k optioned up price.As others have also said I do not wish depreciation on others, although I would be lying if I said I don’t benefit from it and you would be nieve not to accept it as a fact of life. At the end of the day you will want to sell your 458 but I will not want to pay you the same as you paid for it as it will not be the same car you bought. Another example is how it works the other way in that I am likely to get every penny I have spent on my CS back if I put it up for sale in March 2012 despite that it will have another 15k on the odo. I just wont have had the appreciation in value over the last 12 months that the car would have had if I had left it in stasis.
It is also the fact that these days there is a vast choice of nice cars and, IMO, there are a lot of cars that have depreciated to the point that they would cost me far less as over the total ownership time than some 2011 Mundaneo.
Yes it is a fact that the best way to buy a 458 would be to have the spare £200k sitting in the Coutts account but for the vast majority of us, even though I am apparently in the top few percent of earners in the first place which I find laughable, there is no way on earth I am likely to be in that position, even if I was to forsake all in favour of money.
On the other hand I am looking at the prices of F360s and wandering if I can afford the running costs and if I can get away with it in the car park given the Boxster raised eyebrows and the CS only gets the nod as it’s obviously an ‘old car’.
Edited by Rude-boy on Thursday 24th November 14:06
sidicks said:
The only justification for this is on mass market cars, where lease companies can order hundreds, achieve huge fleet discounts and pass on that saving to the customer. Whilst a Porsche is no longer a niche product, it's not quite at the "mass market, fleet discount" level yet....!!
Sidicks
I know of two or three lease companies that actually make a profit on their 6 month old, ex rental, mass market cars!!Sidicks
The manufacturers discounts are huge, ie over 50% in a lot of cases...
They make the money from the lease payments AND when they sell 'em!!
Not sure if it fits the Porsche profile however...
Rude-boy said:
Hmm. For me it was the question "What about ambition?" that got me a little aerated. The way it was written and context suggested that the sole arbiter of the level of one's ambition was the creation of greater wealth. Something I have always been a little defensive of given that I have not followed the herd and chased the money, yet I would rate my ambitions as being just as, if not far more, difficult to achieve than the old retire at 50 mantra of those chasing the money.
I agree with this sentiment. I notice a fair few PHers who frequent the Porsche forum are quite obviously slaves to the money-go-round. It's a bit of a revelation to discover that above a fairly modest income level (basically avoiding poverty or serious financial stress) there is almost no correlation between happiness and how much money you earn. As a famous freeride skier was once quoted in regard to [lack of] money while standing at the top of an amazing Alaskan mountain peak "Bill Gates isn't going to be dropping in my line today". Rude-boy said:
Hmm. For me it was the question "What about ambition?" that got me a little aerated. The way it was written and context suggested that the sole arbiter of the level of one's ambition was the creation of greater wealth. Something I have always been a little defensive of given that I have not followed the herd and chased the money, yet I would rate my ambitions as being just as, if not far more, difficult to achieve than the old retire at 50 mantra of those chasing the money.
On the other hand I am looking at the prices of F360s and wandering if I can afford the running costs and if I can get away with it in the car park given the Boxster raised eyebrows and the CS only gets the nod as it’s obviously an ‘old car’.
But when we're talking about luxury cars, the issue of money / ambition related to earnings will come up? It's fine if that's not what motivates you, plenty of people I know are far more into having a happy family life and would prefer to work 35hrs a week on £20k than 70hrs a week on £100k. On the other hand I am looking at the prices of F360s and wandering if I can afford the running costs and if I can get away with it in the car park given the Boxster raised eyebrows and the CS only gets the nod as it’s obviously an ‘old car’.
However, part of you wants a Porsche / Ferrari / other posh metal because it's exclusive and relatively hard to obtain. It's the stuff we had on our bedroom walls when we were teenagers. To be honest....you'll get a much purer driving experience from an old Elise or Caterham.....both of which can be had for under £10k with nearly zero depreciation. People don't want them as much however as they're not as aspirational. They're not status symbols that'll make the neighbours jealous.
As much as it's an ugly thing to say, a large part of the reason people buy exclusive cars is because they're perceived to be expensive and exclusive. That's why I always get annoyed with people hoping for depreciation - aside from being mean spirited, it's also counter productive. The reason these cars are desirable is in part because they're expensive. The cheaper they get the less people aspire to them, imo.
IanHug said:
Scelto said:
Wasn't kbf just stating the obvious? The best way to get better "stuff" - including cars - is to earn more money.
That's not necessarily at odds with what you're saying, so what exactly are you taking exception to?
Perhaps kbf is the love child of Norman Tebbit and Edwina Currie.That's not necessarily at odds with what you're saying, so what exactly are you taking exception to?
kbf1981 said:
However, part of you wants a Porsche / Ferrari / other posh metal because it's exclusive and relatively hard to obtain.
Nope. I want one because it's fast around a track, and comfortable for a long cruise, and could do the commute. Couldn't give two hoots about exclusivity or difficulty to obtain. (What with there being plenty made and plenty about for sale).uktrailmonster said:
I agree with this sentiment. I notice a fair few PHers who frequent the Porsche forum are quite obviously slaves to the money-go-round.
Some of us enjoy our jobs. It's not being a slave, it's enjoying what you do and being rewarded for it. I work weekends, never leave the office before 8.30pm, and it's fun. I'd prefer to do this than watch X Factor.Munter said:
kbf1981 said:
However, part of you wants a Porsche / Ferrari / other posh metal because it's exclusive and relatively hard to obtain.
Nope. I want one because it's fast around a track, and comfortable for a long cruise, and could do the commute. Couldn't give two hoots about exclusivity or difficulty to obtain. (What with there being plenty made and plenty about for sale).kbf1981 said:
Plenty is a relative term. A second hand Scooby would cover those bases for a lot less.
A 300 BHP scooby with £1bn spent trying to make it handle properly, hardly has the same driving experience as a RWD "sports car".It's about the driving experience for the driver. Not the thoughts of others when stood outside. I have no desire to make people jealous, or in fact even notice me. If I could realistically make the MX5 drive as well, and be as fast and as comfortable I would, and I'd be happy. But it's simply not practical. I'd essentially be engineering a Porsche rather than buying one.
kbf1981 said:
As much as it's an ugly thing to say, a large part of the reason people buy exclusive cars is because they're perceived to be expensive and exclusive. That's why I always get annoyed with people hoping for depreciation - aside from being mean spirited, it's also counter productive. The reason these cars are desirable is in part because they're expensive. The cheaper they get the less people aspire to them, imo.
I wish the bloody Maclaren F1 would depreciate, I will never own that in my life time!kbf1981 said:
uktrailmonster said:
I agree with this sentiment. I notice a fair few PHers who frequent the Porsche forum are quite obviously slaves to the money-go-round.
Some of us enjoy our jobs. It's not being a slave, it's enjoying what you do and being rewarded for it. I work weekends, never leave the office before 8.30pm, and it's fun. I'd prefer to do this than watch X Factor.kbf1981 said:
However, part of you wants a Porsche / Ferrari / other posh metal because it's exclusive and relatively hard to obtain. It's the stuff we had on our bedroom walls when we were teenagers. To be honest....you'll get a much purer driving experience from an old Elise or Caterham.....both of which can be had for under £10k with nearly zero depreciation. People don't want them as much however as they're not as aspirational. They're not status symbols that'll make the neighbours jealous.
I am in the middle of selling my Caterham. Not because it is not special enough but because I have not had the time to drive it properly for various reasons and I am now finding it too pure an experience for my aging bones. Depreciation over 16 years was the total of £300 plus any options and upgrades! Can't ask more than that.As for making the neighbours jealous, most of my neighbours get far more excited when I bring out the Seven, even if it is just for a wash/polish - even the neighbours with 911's....
Or am I in the minority of Porsche buyers who want a sporty grand tourer with an actual purpose intended for the car beyond "its an everyday sports car"
kbf1981 said:
Exactly.
Don't wish depreciation on others, that's fking sad, instead raise yourself higher if you want nicer things. I don't cross my fingers and hope a new 458 depreciates to £20k.....I work hard so I can afford the £200k optioned up price.
Cars depreciate.. Fact. I don't really think that hopeing the value of something will go down is 'fDon't wish depreciation on others, that's f
king sad, instead raise yourself higher if you want nicer things. I don't cross my fingers and hope a new 458 depreciates to £20k.....I work hard so I can afford the £200k optioned up price.king sad'.Reality is, I work hard and have to see and do things others certainly wouldn't want to and at times make extremely important decisions. But I will never be in a position on salary alone to go and buy a 458.
Do I wish they were 20k, damn right. But in a realistic sense. I don't want owners simply loseing that the moment the car gets driven. In 10-15 years time, yeah I do hope they become more affordable. They will never be 20k, but I hope they reach the 50-60k mark.
'Just work harder' is a some what simplistic view from someone who clearly believes they are of a higher standing in the world.
mollytherocker said:
Are you telling me that you dont know how to limit or protect yourself from the effects of depreciation?
How odd.
MTR
Peter, depreciation is unavoidable if you want to drive a new, or nearly new Porsche (GT2 aside). No matter what fancy methods people use to buy / lease / rent it - you end dropping your trousers. How odd.
MTR
Old pork is very different, which is why I run a 1970 911s and a 968 CS - little depreciation but massive running costs!
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