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doozy

Original Poster:

57 posts

45 months

[news] 
Thursday 8th December 2011 quote quote all
Both of these are 2008 Cayman S with PASM. The silver is obviously lowered. Would this have to be an aftermarket mod ? I don't see an option from new on the Porsche configurator.

Also pros / cons of lowering a car with PASM.


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Actus Reus

2,364 posts

41 months

[news] 
Thursday 8th December 2011 quote quote all
90% sure that's aftermarket, and I'd say the con was that it would render PASM almost utterly pointless insofar as you may not be able to turn it on. Already I find PASM too stiff for any road driving, so I'd have thought a lowered car would struggle even more - perhaps helpful on track? Also would means the OPC Warranty wouldn't be a possibility for it.
ETA: Aren't PASM cars 10mm lower than standard anyway?

Rob2005

531 posts

90 months

[news] 
Thursday 8th December 2011 quote quote all
PASM cars are indeed 10mm lower than those without.

If you intend to lower the car id buy one without PASM as there are more and less expensive ways of lowering the car than those with PASM.

Ive used my Cayman only a few times with PASM turned on and while its superb on smooth roads (Brecon Beacons) ive used it on some bumpe A roads and it was awful.

On track i bet its great but im yet to track my Cayman.


CharlesW

265 posts

134 months

[news] 
Thursday 8th December 2011 quote quote all
PASM is on ALL the time! It has 2 modes - Normal and Sport. I agree that the Sport mode is too stiff for most circumstances, but the Normal mode results in a very compliant ride. It greatly improves the ride on rough surfaces.

Matt Seabrook

473 posts

137 months

[news] 
Friday 9th December 2011 quote quote all
IMO the first car just looks wrong. I would not lower a car lower than the manufacturer does as standard. There is so much more to making a car handle better than just lowering it. You could introduce bump steer to name just one fault. If it's just because you like the look of the car lower then great but if you want a car to handle well leave it alone.
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shoestring7

4,952 posts

132 months

[news] 
Friday 9th December 2011 quote quote all
CharlesW said:
PASM is on ALL the time! It has 2 modes - Normal and Sport. I agree that the Sport mode is too stiff for most circumstances, but the Normal mode results in a very compliant ride. It greatly improves the ride on rough surfaces.
+1.

Having 17" or 18" wheels makes 'Sport' mode a lot more usable.

SS7

chris7676

2,472 posts

106 months

[news] 
Friday 9th December 2011 quote quote all
Matt Seabrook said:
IMO the first car just looks wrong. I would not lower a car lower than the manufacturer does as standard. There is so much more to making a car handle better than just lowering it. You could introduce bump steer to name just one fault. If it's just because you like the look of the car lower then great but if you want a car to handle well leave it alone.
IMO it looks great and purposeful. You don't particularly need to lower Boxster/Cayman as its COG is already low, but you may if you want to get more camber. You will not worsen the handling though.

Matt Seabrook

473 posts

137 months

[news] 
Friday 9th December 2011 quote quote all
chris7676 said:
You will not worsen the handling though.
Do you know this for a fact? In my experience of setting up car geometry for a living lowering a car can be detrimental to bump steer. Lowering a car is likely to cause the car to roll less and some drives think the car is handling better. Of course some drivers just do not have the feel to be able to tell if a car handles well or not.

Oh and it just my opinion on the look of the car. If you or anybody else likes the look that ok with me wink

Edited by Matt Seabrook on Friday 9th December 17:05

craigjm

3,239 posts

86 months

[news] 
Friday 9th December 2011 quote quote all
Actus Reus said:
90% sure that's aftermarket, and I'd say the con was that it would render PASM almost utterly pointless insofar as you may not be able to turn it on.
PASM is a Bilstein system and can be lowered with the fitting of their PSS damptronics suspension setup whilst still allowing PASM to work in the way that it does as standard. PASM is always on. The switch puts it in two different modes it does not turn it on and off and the ride is consistently 10mm lower than a standard car it does not go up and down.

doozy

Original Poster:

57 posts

45 months

[news] 
Friday 9th December 2011 quote quote all
Matt Seabrook said:
Oh and it just my opinion on the look of the car. If you or anybody else likes the look that ok with me
Still think it looks too low from this view ?



I bought the car recently and showed it with the blue car to demonstrate that it is lower than a similar PASM Cayman.

I just need to figure out what was done to it now.

I'm no driving expert but i did run another Cayman (non PASM) for 4 years before this one and the difference in how they drive is astonishing. The new one feels much more stable and planted on B roads. How much that is due to PASM and how much to the lowering i have no idea.

craigjm

3,239 posts

86 months

[news] 
Friday 9th December 2011 quote quote all
If it is the PASM compatible Bilstein PSS Damptronic system, that i mentioned above its easy to identify as the springs are a bright cyan blue

Matt Seabrook

473 posts

137 months

[news] 
Friday 9th December 2011 quote quote all
Hi Doozy don't wish to offend you by saying the lowered car look is wrong. It's just an opinion as I prefer the look of the standard car. Photos do not always do a car justice either and seeing something in the flesh can make a big difference. Its just I see so many cars through my workshop that have been lowered and most of them would have handled better before people started messing. If yours is better then that's great and may well have been done properly. A lot of people do not understand what the effects are on a car when it's lowered. wink

RudeDog

1,342 posts

60 months

[news] 
Friday 9th December 2011 quote quote all
I think the standard Cayman S looks like it rides too high, even with 19" wheels. I have considered dropping mine but I love the way it drives and would not want to jeopardise that.

The best answer would be for the wheel arches to be smaller, not that the suspension needs to be shorter. Thats a bit of a drastic modification though!

alcatraz236

139 posts

38 months

[news] 
Friday 9th December 2011 quote quote all
RudeDog said:
I think the standard Cayman S looks like it rides too high, even with 19" wheels. I have considered dropping mine but I love the way it drives and would not want to jeopardise that.

The best answer would be for the wheel arches to be smaller, not that the suspension needs to be shorter. Thats a bit of a drastic modification though!
i agree, thats why i like the pasm cars, the 10mm drop is a nice adjustment which improves the stance

worldwidewebs

572 posts

136 months

[news] 
Friday 9th December 2011 quote quote all
The Cayman R seems to handle ok...

SFO

3,369 posts

69 months

[news] 
Friday 9th December 2011 quote quote all
worldwidewebs said:
The Cayman R seems to handle ok...
R has 20mm suspension drop

chris7676

2,472 posts

106 months

[news] 
Saturday 10th December 2011 quote quote all
Matt, more from the experience of running a similarly lowered Boxster (now probably a bit higher as had occasional clearing issue) - I have not experienced any bumpsteer, actually the negative side effect of the car being so low was excessive rear camber (sub 3 deg, while around 2 seems optimal).

Regarding the OP's feel of the car being more planted - this is probably the case due to stiffer springs which is normal and expected for "lowering springs". But this is just my guessing.

Matt Seabrook

473 posts

137 months

[news] 
Saturday 10th December 2011 quote quote all
Interesting Chris how did you measure bump steer?

cmoose

25,721 posts

115 months

[news] 
Sunday 11th December 2011 quote quote all
Matt Seabrook said:
IMO the first car just looks wrong. I would not lower a car lower than the manufacturer does as standard. There is so much more to making a car handle better than just lowering it. You could introduce bump steer to name just one fault. If it's just because you like the look of the car lower then great but if you want a car to handle well leave it alone.
Disagree fully. The results from suspension modification varies wildly. It's all about the hardware you use, the expertise you put in and the result you are aiming for.

Yes, a car lowered for looks inexpertly using, say, cheap lowering springs would be very undesirable. An alternative car running high end custom built coilovers might run lower than a standard car but still ride better. The factory dampers are pretty cheaply engineered.

The bottom line is that the factory ride height factors in lots of compromises in delivering a one-size fits all setting. It's set up to be safe for a wide variety of drivers. It would be set up very differently if it was only going to be driven by skilled drivers. It's set up for mass market practicality in terms of ride height. Again the ride height would be different if priorities and customer base were more focussed, as it is with the GTx cars.

But not everyone can afford GTx cars. So, if you want a more focussed chassis, there's ample scope for going aftermarket and coming up with something much sharper than the factory chassis trim. And a nice fringe benefit is that the car will look better lowered. If or one think even the Cayman R rides to high in purely aesthetic terms. It doesn't look nearly as purposeful as the GTx cars.

Edited by cmoose on Sunday 11th December 14:18

Durzel

2,676 posts

54 months

[news] 
Sunday 11th December 2011 quote quote all
Cayman R shocks and springs are - to my knowledge - a straight swap onto a Cayman S and should drop it by a similar amount. A guy in America did this mod and it certainly improves the look imo. Cayman R struts/springs also have the advantage of being designed exactly for that car and Porsche would have all the geo settings for them in house.

Maybe you've got those? Or even just the springs?

edit: Just realised the car has PASM.. seems unlikely that it would have non-PASM Cayman R shocks I guess?
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