I've just bought some poverty Pork…
Discussion
Rosewood Red said:
Swine Enthusiast said:
Cheers for the heads up! Looks tidy - is there much difference between 2.5 & 2.7? I can't imagine much in terms of performance?
From a 2.7 owner who has driven all variants, the 2.7 has no discernable performance advantage over a 2.5 in the real world. 3.2 on the other hand...I have a thread in Readers Rides outlining costs. Take good note of ATM's post above. I spent just under £4k buying mine. I have spent £1.5k since buying in October, half of that being all new front suspension arms and springs (the latter was bad luck - pothole). The car's currently at a specialist having the rear arms and a couple of other niggly bits replaced and I'm expecting a bill of over £700. It'll be going back in next month for clutch, DMF, RMS, etc, and am not expecting much change from £1.5k. Once the AC is sorted out, I'll probably have spent purchase price, if not more, on maintenace.
On the face of it, all it needed was a clutch and some bushes. It's only when you start digging that you find dirt. Bear in mind, I have gone a little overboard and could have gotten away with only renewing a couple of front arms. But once I'm done, IMS aside, all the mechanical weak points will have been addressed.
Good luck!
Agreed - due to some reason a 2.5 was considerably (comparatively anyway - £4xx vs £6xx) cheaper to insure compared to a 2.7 using your preferred price comparison website.
This was before I handily picked up three points shortly before buying, whereupon there wasn't much in it, and a slightly higher price to boot all round
This was before I handily picked up three points shortly before buying, whereupon there wasn't much in it, and a slightly higher price to boot all round
There is a difference between each engine, and I considered and drove all 3 - at the lower end of the market I would honestly just buy the one thats in the best condition. I ended up with a 2,7 and dont feel I've missed out on an 'S'.
(Ii do think a 2.7 with a 2.5 box in would be the best though, especially one like mine with naff all options, so nice and light!)
As for suspension rebuild - I'm currently totting it up myself, I'll be doing it all myself, and honestly I don't think its that expensive (I don't actually think most mechanical parts are that dear really). The main reason the suspension refresh adds up is that there a lot of it, with it being a multilink type setup.
(Ii do think a 2.7 with a 2.5 box in would be the best though, especially one like mine with naff all options, so nice and light!)
As for suspension rebuild - I'm currently totting it up myself, I'll be doing it all myself, and honestly I don't think its that expensive (I don't actually think most mechanical parts are that dear really). The main reason the suspension refresh adds up is that there a lot of it, with it being a multilink type setup.
Yeah, if I had access to a lift, decent tools and the time...
Meyle coffin arms can be obtained for £55 a corner. Don't have the invoices to hand right now, but I have kept a spreadsheet up to date. Front coffin arms, tuning forks and track rods set me back over £380 in parts alone (Meyle + TRW), and I did shop around. OE front springs at just under £140. £250 labour at my local indy and then just under £100 for alignement, etc.
The rear eccentric bolts were seized in the metal inserts in the bushes. I had had enough at this point, my indy was being lazy / a dick, so I left it with Cath. All rear arms are being done, bar the diagonals along with new eccentric bolts (~£17 from Porsche. Each!). This way, I am paying slightly over the odds for parts (Meyle coffin arms as above costing £75 + VAT vs £55 each), but labour is reasonable for a specialist. And, it's getting another alignement...
There are three arms on the rear, two on the front - on average, over £60 (price doesn't actually vary too much per component)a piece. For decent branded arms alone, all round, I do think you'll struggle to come in much under £700, personally. Little bits like bolts can add up too.
Of course, happy to be proven wrong and learn
Meyle coffin arms can be obtained for £55 a corner. Don't have the invoices to hand right now, but I have kept a spreadsheet up to date. Front coffin arms, tuning forks and track rods set me back over £380 in parts alone (Meyle + TRW), and I did shop around. OE front springs at just under £140. £250 labour at my local indy and then just under £100 for alignement, etc.
The rear eccentric bolts were seized in the metal inserts in the bushes. I had had enough at this point, my indy was being lazy / a dick, so I left it with Cath. All rear arms are being done, bar the diagonals along with new eccentric bolts (~£17 from Porsche. Each!). This way, I am paying slightly over the odds for parts (Meyle coffin arms as above costing £75 + VAT vs £55 each), but labour is reasonable for a specialist. And, it's getting another alignement...
There are three arms on the rear, two on the front - on average, over £60 (price doesn't actually vary too much per component)a piece. For decent branded arms alone, all round, I do think you'll struggle to come in much under £700, personally. Little bits like bolts can add up too.
Of course, happy to be proven wrong and learn
Edited by Rosewood Red on Wednesday 15th February 22:54
My car was on some aging Pilot sport 2s, that were embarassingly low on tread (I never usuall let them get borderline!).
So I had 4x new boots fitted today, gone for Yokohama Advan V105s - which is what they are fitting to the 718's apparently. Gone for 225/45 on the front too. There's few options now for these sizes if you want exact match front and rear, it was these, Kumho Ku39's, more Pilot sport 2's, or Eagle F1 Asymm 2 - both the latter being quite old designs, the Yokos are brand new.
The Kumhos are about £330 fitted, the Yokohamas were ~£420 fitted, Blackcircles.
Really please so far, quiet, grippy, good feel, not too stiff/harsh. Definitely recommend 225 on the front I think. See how they do on track in a few weeks at Blyton.
Good thrash today, I have got quite a few suspension clonks and rattles coming through now. Another tank will take to over 130k though!
February 2017 by simonholehan, on Flickr
So I had 4x new boots fitted today, gone for Yokohama Advan V105s - which is what they are fitting to the 718's apparently. Gone for 225/45 on the front too. There's few options now for these sizes if you want exact match front and rear, it was these, Kumho Ku39's, more Pilot sport 2's, or Eagle F1 Asymm 2 - both the latter being quite old designs, the Yokos are brand new.
The Kumhos are about £330 fitted, the Yokohamas were ~£420 fitted, Blackcircles.
Really please so far, quiet, grippy, good feel, not too stiff/harsh. Definitely recommend 225 on the front I think. See how they do on track in a few weeks at Blyton.
Good thrash today, I have got quite a few suspension clonks and rattles coming through now. Another tank will take to over 130k though!
February 2017 by simonholehan, on Flickr
Escy said:
These cars are expensive as you want to make them. In my opinion changing every suspension arm in sight is excessive and not needed.
Agreed. Regarding the front axle on mine, one of the previous owners decided to replace one coffin arm recently. Just one. Apparently ball joint had play on the MOT. Unsurprisingly, when inspected post purchse, the ball joint on the old arm now had minor play, as did one of the tuning forks. Hence, me deciding to do them in pairs.Rear arms probably could have been left alone, as the bolts eventually came out, but seeing as the fronts had been done...
On anohter note, has anyone with a 2.7 actually installed a 2.5 gearbox? You've got me thinking about it. Am doing the clutch (and potentially DMF) soon. 115k and still original, although the clutch is truly fubared, but is soldiering on.
Would anyone with a 2.5 be able to post what speed it does per 1000 RPM in each gear?
I've been following your progress Rosewood, it's interesting.
I used replacing the suspension arms as an example. I agree for £350 to DIY them it makes sense. My point about the cars being as expensive as you want them to be is more about owners attitudes towards maintenance. Replace everything in sight by a Porsche specialist seems to be the general way, fine if you can afford it/justify it. I'm just saying it doesn't need to be like that in my opinion.
If you had a 15 year old Ford Focus with over 100k on the clock and it needed a wishbone, the vast majority would replace just the offending wishbone, done by the local garage for £50 labour.
Unless you need specialist diagnostics or coding or an engine rebuild, I'm not convinced by using Porsche specialists either. I've done lots of work on mine, generally I'd say they are a pretty simple car to work on, a clutch change or suspension work can be done by any mechanic.
I used replacing the suspension arms as an example. I agree for £350 to DIY them it makes sense. My point about the cars being as expensive as you want them to be is more about owners attitudes towards maintenance. Replace everything in sight by a Porsche specialist seems to be the general way, fine if you can afford it/justify it. I'm just saying it doesn't need to be like that in my opinion.
If you had a 15 year old Ford Focus with over 100k on the clock and it needed a wishbone, the vast majority would replace just the offending wishbone, done by the local garage for £50 labour.
Unless you need specialist diagnostics or coding or an engine rebuild, I'm not convinced by using Porsche specialists either. I've done lots of work on mine, generally I'd say they are a pretty simple car to work on, a clutch change or suspension work can be done by any mechanic.
Escy said:
I've been following your progress Rosewood, it's interesting.
I used replacing the suspension arms as an example. I agree for £350 to DIY them it makes sense. My point about the cars being as expensive as you want them to be is more about owners attitudes towards maintenance. Replace everything in sight by a Porsche specialist seems to be the general way, fine if you can afford it/justify it. I'm just saying it doesn't need to be like that in my opinion.
If you had a 15 year old Ford Focus with over 100k on the clock and it needed a wishbone, the vast majority would replace just the offending wishbone, done by the local garage for £50 labour.
Unless you need specialist diagnostics or coding or an engine rebuild, I'm not convinced by using Porsche specialists either. I've done lots of work on mine, generally I'd say they are a pretty simple car to work on, a clutch change or suspension work can be done by any mechanic.
I had the clutch changed on my 986 in 2008 or 2007. It was a 2003 car and therefore quite new. I gave the job to my friend's little brother. He was a mechanic and had never touched a Porsche before. I knew the guy and his level of detail was way above and beyond mine. This is why I trusted him. For me trust in the individual is more important than the specialism of the business. There is no mystery here - they are just cars.I used replacing the suspension arms as an example. I agree for £350 to DIY them it makes sense. My point about the cars being as expensive as you want them to be is more about owners attitudes towards maintenance. Replace everything in sight by a Porsche specialist seems to be the general way, fine if you can afford it/justify it. I'm just saying it doesn't need to be like that in my opinion.
If you had a 15 year old Ford Focus with over 100k on the clock and it needed a wishbone, the vast majority would replace just the offending wishbone, done by the local garage for £50 labour.
Unless you need specialist diagnostics or coding or an engine rebuild, I'm not convinced by using Porsche specialists either. I've done lots of work on mine, generally I'd say they are a pretty simple car to work on, a clutch change or suspension work can be done by any mechanic.
Escy and ATM, I agree 100% with the above.
I hope my earlier posts didn't come across as me taking it the wrong way - just stating my experience.
Unfortunately, I don't have the tools or the space to do any 'heavy' mechanical work on my cars. The front arms and springs were fitted by my local (non-Porsche) indy, but when it came to the rears, I got dicked about by him. At that point, I just wanted it dealt with, hence using the specialist, my reasoning being they do these day in and day out.
I don't condone doing every single bit of maintenance at a specialist (applies to any marque); stuff such as brake fluid changes, oil, filters, brakes, plugs, etc can be done by anyone competent if one id not comfortable doing it themselves. Specialists do have their place though - a non-functional radiator fan resistor and one or two other issues were picked up on an inspection which would not have been spotted otherwise.
I hope my earlier posts didn't come across as me taking it the wrong way - just stating my experience.
Unfortunately, I don't have the tools or the space to do any 'heavy' mechanical work on my cars. The front arms and springs were fitted by my local (non-Porsche) indy, but when it came to the rears, I got dicked about by him. At that point, I just wanted it dealt with, hence using the specialist, my reasoning being they do these day in and day out.
I don't condone doing every single bit of maintenance at a specialist (applies to any marque); stuff such as brake fluid changes, oil, filters, brakes, plugs, etc can be done by anyone competent if one id not comfortable doing it themselves. Specialists do have their place though - a non-functional radiator fan resistor and one or two other issues were picked up on an inspection which would not have been spotted otherwise.
ATM said:
I had the clutch changed on my 986 in 2008 or 2007. It was a 2003 car and therefore quite new. I gave the job to my friend's little brother. He was a mechanic and had never touched a Porsche before. I knew the guy and his level of detail was way above and beyond mine. This is why I trusted him. For me trust in the individual is more important than the specialism of the business. There is no mystery here - they are just cars.
Yes & I'd go further to say it's only when you do start spannering them that you see where the money goes on one. They're generally beautifully put together, well thought through & a pleasure to work on, really engineering led machines that by extension translate into relatively easy cars to maintain.On the coffin arms & tuning forks specifically, it really is just a straightforward nut & bolt affair to renew, well within the scope of anyone with even basic skills.
I've done tonnes of work on mine so far. It's a really lovely piece of engineering. In fact I even took a picture the other day as I was so pleased with how tidy, clean a d corrosion free the underside was even at 15 years and 130k mile old. It's a great DIY car (and I've worked on a lot!).
Quick question:
How many box owners are storing outside?
Mine is sat outside and I'm concerned about weather-proofing - took it to fill up the tyres this weekend and appear to have muchos condensation / moisture inside
Suspect a combination of lack of use and possibly poor seal on the passenger side door, possibly contributed to by an uncooperative window regular. Effingham.
How many box owners are storing outside?
Mine is sat outside and I'm concerned about weather-proofing - took it to fill up the tyres this weekend and appear to have muchos condensation / moisture inside
Suspect a combination of lack of use and possibly poor seal on the passenger side door, possibly contributed to by an uncooperative window regular. Effingham.edc said:
Get a Pingi air drier bag from eBay.
That was quick! Cheers.I'm in two minds as the car s the subject of a protracted dispute and I'd rather not spend more as I'm already in for more than I'm likely to get back (certainly more than is my original claim). But by the same token I hate poorly maintained cars and part of my PH OCD needs anything in my charge to be well looked after. Dang it.
Edwin Strohacker said:
Yes & I'd go further to say it's only when you do start spannering them that you see where the money goes on one. They're generally beautifully put together, well thought through & a pleasure to work on, really engineering led machines that by extension translate into relatively easy cars to maintain.
On the coffin arms & tuning forks specifically, it really is just a straightforward nut & bolt affair to renew, well within the scope of anyone with even basic skills.
..as long as the camber bolts aren't seized.. I agree that they are well put together although there are some frustrating thingsOn the coffin arms & tuning forks specifically, it really is just a straightforward nut & bolt affair to renew, well within the scope of anyone with even basic skills.
1. The propensity for corrosion on clips and bolts
2. The stupid design of the expansion tank pipework which makes it much more difficult than it should be to replace
3. The droplinks seizing inside the uprights
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