Manual or Tiptronic 996 TT?
Discussion
Greg66 said:
Interesting, but a different point. Overrevs may affect whether an OPC is prepared to offer you a warranty; that was the point I made.
There may well be all sorts of other issues that are common to manuals and tips, but that's not the point I was addressing.
Warranty is an interesting one. In terms of over revs Im not sure and never had that problem. There may well be all sorts of other issues that are common to manuals and tips, but that's not the point I was addressing.
I had different turbos, headers, exhaust, fpr, RVs, hoses etc etc and they still paid out when my diff went pop. Came to renewal time and the same outfit didnt want to know. Very sporadic.
rallycross said:
We are buying a 996 Twin Turbo convertible in the next couple of weeks, the ones we are looking at are aged around 2004 models.
What are current/previous owners thoughts on manual versus tipronic models?
At 50k miles are there likely to be any issues with a tiptronic?
Wont be using it on track, will be mainly town/city driving with the occassional trip to Europe.
I've always preferred manuals, does a 996TT manual feel more fun to drive than the tipronic? I dont want to lose the fun of taking it for a good blast, does the auto feel less fun?
Hoping to get one with the x50 power upgrade although not essential.
It will depend on personal preference, but, I have driven a C2S with the 5 speed slush box and I thought it was a really clumsy slow changing box and you lose the sound of a nice crisp gear change. I also think with 5 gears you lose some performance. I followed a 996 Turbo Tip round the ring in my manual 996 C4S and when we got to the straights the turbo was only just creeping away and given where I was changing up I think this was largely due to gearing. Must have been a bit gutting for the owner of the turbo when he realised that the 996 that had just stuck to his tail was a lowely C4S.What are current/previous owners thoughts on manual versus tipronic models?
At 50k miles are there likely to be any issues with a tiptronic?
Wont be using it on track, will be mainly town/city driving with the occassional trip to Europe.
I've always preferred manuals, does a 996TT manual feel more fun to drive than the tipronic? I dont want to lose the fun of taking it for a good blast, does the auto feel less fun?
Hoping to get one with the x50 power upgrade although not essential.
Ignore all the over rev doom mongers and try them out for yourself. But for me its manual every time.
had both and in my opinion the manual is better , feels sharper more of a drivers car , tip is ok for lazy driving around town still fast of course but you always feel like it needs to wake up as you initially hit the accelerator pedal slight delay got on my nerves and the buttons on the steering wheel are very fiddly to use should have had paddles in my opinion, having said that it all depends what suits your style of driving and the type of driving you do most of, motorways and town, tips fine but out on a sunday blast down your favourite b road manual every time .
rallycross said:
Not too worried about over revving it, only a clumsy lead footed-muppet would do that.
Or a clumsy gear shifting hand....(this is FAR worse than anything you can do with your feet!)
iguana said:
If you need to ask, prob best to go for the tip.
I personally can't see the appeal of auto sports cars unless you've lost a limb or two, but thats just me.
Lol. Shouldnt laugh but that is funny. It's not even a tip really, if you look beyond the Porsche schpiel, it's an auto with some dodgy buttons on the steering wheel.I personally can't see the appeal of auto sports cars unless you've lost a limb or two, but thats just me.
monthefish said:
Ouch, I could feel his pain.It's no secret that I'm a big fan of the Tiptronic in a Turbo (but, IMO there isn't enough torque for one in a N/A 911).
Just a little technical argument - both the manual and the automatic are mechanical gearboxes when they are actually in gear - as the torque converter is locked out once the gear change is completed in a Tiptronic. The only real technical differences are the method of changing gears and, in the case of the 911, the number of gears in the box.
The 0-60 time of the Tiptronic is slower - mostly because of the different gear ratios (1st and 2nd in the manual being lower than 1st and 2nd in the Tip), other than that, it is just really whether you feel you need to do the work to change gear or not, really...
I have to say, I have become a total convert to using the Tiptronic in manual mode when I'm 'driving for fun' and in Auto mode for the motorway or town drudgery of just getting somewhere whilst pre-occupied with other stuff!
Being slightly cynical, if you are only looking at cabs, you don't sound like the sort of person that wants the last split second available around the Nurburgring, or the tautest cornering feel at Brands (and you say it won't be tracked anyway), do you really want the added faff of changing gear all the time? I have done loads of long trips across Europe (and a couple of track days, as it happens) in my Turbo Tip and I don't for a moment feel I've missed out on anything by not having a manual box - in fact, if anything, I think I have a better car for the Tiptronic - especially in those twisty lanes, where I really don't want to be taking a hand of the steering wheel, thanks
If manual 'stick-shift' boxes really are better for sports cars, why can you no longer have one in a Ferrari?
Just a little technical argument - both the manual and the automatic are mechanical gearboxes when they are actually in gear - as the torque converter is locked out once the gear change is completed in a Tiptronic. The only real technical differences are the method of changing gears and, in the case of the 911, the number of gears in the box.
The 0-60 time of the Tiptronic is slower - mostly because of the different gear ratios (1st and 2nd in the manual being lower than 1st and 2nd in the Tip), other than that, it is just really whether you feel you need to do the work to change gear or not, really...
I have to say, I have become a total convert to using the Tiptronic in manual mode when I'm 'driving for fun' and in Auto mode for the motorway or town drudgery of just getting somewhere whilst pre-occupied with other stuff!
Being slightly cynical, if you are only looking at cabs, you don't sound like the sort of person that wants the last split second available around the Nurburgring, or the tautest cornering feel at Brands (and you say it won't be tracked anyway), do you really want the added faff of changing gear all the time? I have done loads of long trips across Europe (and a couple of track days, as it happens) in my Turbo Tip and I don't for a moment feel I've missed out on anything by not having a manual box - in fact, if anything, I think I have a better car for the Tiptronic - especially in those twisty lanes, where I really don't want to be taking a hand of the steering wheel, thanks
If manual 'stick-shift' boxes really are better for sports cars, why can you no longer have one in a Ferrari?
First 911 I drove was a 996 turbo S tip, must admit was a little disappointed, seemed like too few gears for such a performance car.
When I was looking to buy my 996, I didn't really consider a tip, however I tested the one i eventually bought and like anything, once you get used to it, I'd say it's pretty awesome!
My driving is mixture of London traffic and fun open roads. Stick it in D for London, then as soon as there is the open road stick it in M and use the buttons. On A roads it's far quicker changing than a manual and not wishing to sound old but having both hands in the wheel when going fast and still being able to change gear is better IMHO!
And blipping down through the gears is a joy!
Try it...
When I was looking to buy my 996, I didn't really consider a tip, however I tested the one i eventually bought and like anything, once you get used to it, I'd say it's pretty awesome!
My driving is mixture of London traffic and fun open roads. Stick it in D for London, then as soon as there is the open road stick it in M and use the buttons. On A roads it's far quicker changing than a manual and not wishing to sound old but having both hands in the wheel when going fast and still being able to change gear is better IMHO!
And blipping down through the gears is a joy!
Try it...
mollytherocker said:
Are you serious? I am speechless.
MTR
Speechless you may be, but since stepping into my turbo, my first ever Porsche & my first six speed box, I've found the phenomenal rate at which the rev counter moves around the dial is something that takes time to get used to. MTR
The drive train can be recalcitrant when cold and because I'm so used to driving bloody diesels and the family funbus, I've stalled the thing a couple of times because I think I'm over revving.
I'm quite happy to admit I'm not a driving god, and for me, my car is something that takes time to get to know.
rallycross said:
We are buying a 996 Twin Turbo convertible in the next couple of weeks, the ones we are looking at are aged around 2004 models.
What are current/previous owners thoughts on manual versus tipronic models?
At 50k miles are there likely to be any issues with a tiptronic?
Wont be using it on track, will be mainly town/city driving with the occassional trip to Europe.
I've always preferred manuals, does a 996TT manual feel more fun to drive than the tipronic? I dont want to lose the fun of taking it for a good blast, does the auto feel less fun?
Hoping to get one with the x50 power upgrade although not essential.
there is only one choice manual , i have owned both man and tip 996 tt coupe tip box slowWhat are current/previous owners thoughts on manual versus tipronic models?
At 50k miles are there likely to be any issues with a tiptronic?
Wont be using it on track, will be mainly town/city driving with the occassional trip to Europe.
I've always preferred manuals, does a 996TT manual feel more fun to drive than the tipronic? I dont want to lose the fun of taking it for a good blast, does the auto feel less fun?
Hoping to get one with the x50 power upgrade although not essential.
driving manual was a joy.
as for x50 no experience although dms upgrade to 500bhp on tip awesome power, but most fun had in manual from central london to oxford m40 and country lanes.late pm.
Do you need extra power ???? not really manual standard manual my choice
You feel more connected to the manual.
downside small fuel tank for a powerful car 180 miles before filling up again
davidbht said:
downside small fuel tank for a powerful car 180 miles before filling up again
It is a small tank but bloody hell 180 miles between fill ups? You must be driving it like you stole it 
I usually manage 220'ish in mine and computer currently showing average 23mpg. Perhaps it's me that's not driving it hard enough?
Regardless of which box you prefer can we at least get the correct facts out there
- a std tip box on a turbo car shifts 0.5 seconds
- a manual box on a turbo car take 1.1 seconds
- defintion of shift is the point at which boost is lost to when boost is recovered.
In manual mode, the 996 tip and 997 tip is faster than its manual counterparts.
Like learning to drive a manual, you need to know how to drive the tiptronic.
- a std tip box on a turbo car shifts 0.5 seconds
- a manual box on a turbo car take 1.1 seconds
- defintion of shift is the point at which boost is lost to when boost is recovered.
In manual mode, the 996 tip and 997 tip is faster than its manual counterparts.
Like learning to drive a manual, you need to know how to drive the tiptronic.
996ttalot said:
Regardless of which box you prefer can we at least get the correct facts out there
- a std tip box on a turbo car shifts 0.5 seconds
- a manual box on a turbo car take 1.1 seconds
- defintion of shift is the point at which boost is lost to when boost is recovered.
In manual mode, the 996 tip and 997 tip is faster than its manual counterparts.
Like learning to drive a manual, you need to know how to drive the tiptronic.
I'm not an expert in tips, but am I right in thinking they don't loose all boost when shifting (as a manual does), only part loss ?- a std tip box on a turbo car shifts 0.5 seconds
- a manual box on a turbo car take 1.1 seconds
- defintion of shift is the point at which boost is lost to when boost is recovered.
In manual mode, the 996 tip and 997 tip is faster than its manual counterparts.
Like learning to drive a manual, you need to know how to drive the tiptronic.
Do agree that for big power I'd rather have an upgraded tip, but stock, man v tip 996, the tip is nowhere near being quicker, regardless how you drive it !!
From a roll I'd bet heavily on the manual 997 being quicker than the tip 997 also.... shorter gearing really helps in that regard.
Comparing 0-60, standing quarters and all that stuff is completely and utterly meaningless in real-world driving.
Real world comparisons are things like me, about an hour ago: Stuck behind a horse-box, with numpties on it's tailgate and saw a small gap in oncoming traffic: As always, I was in manual mode, in 4th gear at about 40-45 mph: two quick thumb clicks and it dropped to 2nd at the same time as I floored the throttle - no need to change up (the box did that for me at the first pop of the rev limiter) and easily cleared about 4-5 cars and pulled in front of the horse-box before the guy coming the other way reacted fast enough to flash his lights
I KNOW that if I had been in a manual Turbo, I wouldn't have gone for 2nd at that speed and in 3rd I doubt that I would have enough torque to clear the whole queue and so would have been stuck behind a horse-box for about 2 miles (solid whites, bends and a village - hence the hurry to get past first!)
So, the manual MAY do 0-60 in half a second less (with an expert driver having several attempts if they fluff the gear-change on one of them), but today, I got home about 3 minutes earlier than if I had the same car with a manual box
I can accept that some people want to enjoy the physical action of changing gear - and that's fine - but, until all formula one, Ferraris and others ALL go back to a gear lever and a clutch pedal, please don't try and convince us that it is actually quicker that way
At the end of the day, it's just what you prefer: Are you an old traditionalist? Or do you embrace technological progress?
Real world comparisons are things like me, about an hour ago: Stuck behind a horse-box, with numpties on it's tailgate and saw a small gap in oncoming traffic: As always, I was in manual mode, in 4th gear at about 40-45 mph: two quick thumb clicks and it dropped to 2nd at the same time as I floored the throttle - no need to change up (the box did that for me at the first pop of the rev limiter) and easily cleared about 4-5 cars and pulled in front of the horse-box before the guy coming the other way reacted fast enough to flash his lights
I KNOW that if I had been in a manual Turbo, I wouldn't have gone for 2nd at that speed and in 3rd I doubt that I would have enough torque to clear the whole queue and so would have been stuck behind a horse-box for about 2 miles (solid whites, bends and a village - hence the hurry to get past first!)
So, the manual MAY do 0-60 in half a second less (with an expert driver having several attempts if they fluff the gear-change on one of them), but today, I got home about 3 minutes earlier than if I had the same car with a manual box
I can accept that some people want to enjoy the physical action of changing gear - and that's fine - but, until all formula one, Ferraris and others ALL go back to a gear lever and a clutch pedal, please don't try and convince us that it is actually quicker that way
At the end of the day, it's just what you prefer: Are you an old traditionalist? Or do you embrace technological progress?
ZeroH said:
I'm not an expert in tips, but am I right in thinking they don't loose all boost when shifting (as a manual does), only part loss ?
yes, you are right and there is no need to back off the throttle at all when upshifting either. In fact in manual mode, just select the lowest gear available and plant your foot and let the car do the rest... It changes up pretty much bang on the rev limiter (and few people can time manual gear-changes that well).kVA said:
So, the manual MAY do 0-60 in half a second less (with an expert driver having several attempts if they fluff the gear-change on one of them), but today, I got home about 3 minutes earlier than if I had the same car with a manual box
Do you really think that? I suggest you invest in some driving lessons if you think you got home 3 minutes earlier due to driving an auto.
ZeroH said:
996ttalot said:
Regardless of which box you prefer can we at least get the correct facts out there
- a std tip box on a turbo car shifts 0.5 seconds
- a manual box on a turbo car take 1.1 seconds
- defintion of shift is the point at which boost is lost to when boost is recovered.
In manual mode, the 996 tip and 997 tip is faster than its manual counterparts.
Like learning to drive a manual, you need to know how to drive the tiptronic.
I'm not an expert in tips, but am I right in thinking they don't loose all boost when shifting (as a manual does), only part loss ?- a std tip box on a turbo car shifts 0.5 seconds
- a manual box on a turbo car take 1.1 seconds
- defintion of shift is the point at which boost is lost to when boost is recovered.
In manual mode, the 996 tip and 997 tip is faster than its manual counterparts.
Like learning to drive a manual, you need to know how to drive the tiptronic.
Do agree that for big power I'd rather have an upgraded tip, but stock, man v tip 996, the tip is nowhere near being quicker, regardless how you drive it !!
From a roll I'd bet heavily on the manual 997 being quicker than the tip 997 also.... shorter gearing really helps in that regard.
I am talking just std tip box v manual 996 or 997 turbo - the point here is that you need to know how to drive them - non of the journos brake boost from a standard start for example, non of then brake boost when rolling....and that is fair game as far I am concerned because it is no different to raising the RPM on a manual and dumping the clutch.
I think even the Porsche official figures put the 997 tip faster than manual without brake boosting.
It is all about how you drive it. A tip loses about 0.1 long G force during the shift which translates to a very small amount of boost. A manual loses all boost.
I can completely understand if you get into a tip and drive it like an auto you would be under the impression it is slower. You need to know that double stamping on the accelerator for example puts it into the the fastest shift pattern, that if you just start the car, it always starts in the slowest shift pattern and so on. Switch PSM off and it is even faster.
I am not talking about whether manual or tiptronic is best, but I would beat any manual std turbo with a std tip car from either zero or rolling start.
Think about PDK - the reason why that car is quick apart from shifting quick, is that it has zero boost lost.
Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff