997 turbo question
Discussion
IMI A said:
They didn't need to make an S version of the 997.1 turbo. According to a recent article in total 911 its the best turbo ever made!
Lordglenmorangie said:
There is no doubt that the 997.1 Turbo is the best Turbo Porsche has ever made and the way things are going Mr Volkswagen it's going to stay that way for ever. Long live the king 
Peely said:
Driven one ? ............... Had one for 2 years with short shift !
Had a demo in a Gen 2 S as well !
Back to my original statement ........Hard to believe ?
Serious question from someone who hasn't owned either a Gen-1 or -2 997 Turbo. Why do you think (and what were the magazine's thoughts on this) that the Gen-1 is the best Turbo ever? Or that it wasn't? Is it just because the later Gen-2 uses the DFI motor and not the Mezger? Or is there more to it? Peely, why do you find it hard to believe?Had a demo in a Gen 2 S as well !
Back to my original statement ........Hard to believe ?
This is of particular interest to me as I need to change my current car (997S.2) towards the end of the year and had shortlisted the Gen-2 Turbo (amongst others). If the Gen-1 1/2 (with the updated interior / PCM3) really is a better car, I could save enough buying one of these to have the suspension fully sorted, an exhaust that sounds less hoover-like and some more attractive and functional wheels.
I guess there's also the 'will the last of the Mezger-engined cars become a minor cult/classic and eventually be worth more?' debate too.
Look forward to anyone's thoughts on this.
Edited by Ian_UK1 on Wednesday 4th April 08:22
Don't get me wrong, the Gen 1 manual Turbo is an ultimate allrounder and has been said many many times, probably one of the fastest a-b road cars in any conditions dry or wet !
It's just that when I had a demo in a Gen 2 'S', I wasn't impressed ......... I was gobsmacked !
The only thing that compared in performance and capability was the GTR and that wasn't for me, but no doubting it's performance !
I can understand the purists thoughts about the later car and the PDK did take some of the 'driving' out of the occasion, but in my opinion made the best of both worlds when pootling around town, and as for handling it was streets ahead of the first generation but that probably had something to do with the new engine mounts and later chasis developments.
I suppose in the end it depends on what you're looking for from your car ?
It's just that when I had a demo in a Gen 2 'S', I wasn't impressed ......... I was gobsmacked !
The only thing that compared in performance and capability was the GTR and that wasn't for me, but no doubting it's performance !
I can understand the purists thoughts about the later car and the PDK did take some of the 'driving' out of the occasion, but in my opinion made the best of both worlds when pootling around town, and as for handling it was streets ahead of the first generation but that probably had something to do with the new engine mounts and later chasis developments.
I suppose in the end it depends on what you're looking for from your car ?
This may not help but I had a series 1 C2S and now have a series 2 Turbo S. Sometimes I miss the tactility of the Carrera's manual shift and I loved the car, but the Turbo is a weapon. I've driven the new 991 and loved it but was happy to get back into my car. FWIW, I'm not attracted to a manual Turbo - not sure why but the PDK suits the engine too well.
Well - the gen1 has the Mezger which is a fully serviceable racing block(as does the gt2,gt2rs,gt3,gt3rs gen1 and gen2). Way over engineered for road use and very very expensive. A lot of people like that. I personally prefer the manual and the Sport Shifter on the Turbo is just perfect.
The only reason really to upgrade to a gen2 would be PDK for the people who like it. PDK is a huge improvement over the tip.
The only reason really to upgrade to a gen2 would be PDK for the people who like it. PDK is a huge improvement over the tip.
Peely said:
Wow ! ...... hard to believe !
Yes, on the face of it, you might think so. The Turbo S IS a spectacular car by any standards and I might even end up with another one (depending on how the 991t turns out). Still, after about 12 months of ownership, it seemed to me that there are only so many times you can plant the throttle and hang on thinking "holyyyyyy cr*p, this is fast". In the end, you do feel quite detatched from the car while driving as you really don't have much to do apart from accelerate, brake and steer. The steering itslef on the Turbo S is also quite detatched and has waaay less feedback than the Gen1 cars. So much so that when I first drove the Gen1 turbo, I thought the steering was broken! Got used to it after about 20 minutes and realised there was just way more feedback.No doubt the Gen 2 Turbo and Turbo S are "better" cars as they have a lot more development in them (and I agree that the noise they make is way better than the Gen1) and maybe I would find a Gen2 manual turbo to be "better" than the Gen1. It's hard to sum up, but having taken out the Gen1 on a Sunday morning, I feel like I have "been for a drive" when I get back. I didn't get that feling with the PDK Turbo S for some reason, awesome machine though it is. It was more like "been for a ride", even though I was driving.
Rocco1 said:
whats the deal with PCM 1/2/3?
I may be corrected on this butPCM1 were the original Sat/Nav stereo units fitted to early 97 Porkers (I think he year was roughly around that) cars onwards
PCM2 a far better version from 2003 onwards and with more updates but still not as good a sat nav than a Tom Tom
PCM3 even better with bluetooth and touch screen technology
Very basic analogy I know and someone will be along to fully fill you in on the differences but i stand to be corrected nonetheless
r1flyguy1 said:
Rocco1 said:
whats the deal with PCM 1/2/3?
I may be corrected on this butPCM1 were the original Sat/Nav stereo units fitted to early 97 Porkers (I think he year was roughly around that) cars onwards
PCM2 a far better version from 2003 onwards and with more updates but still not as good a sat nav than a Tom Tom
PCM3 even better with bluetooth and touch screen technology
Very basic analogy I know and someone will be along to fully fill you in on the differences but i stand to be corrected nonetheless
PCM 1 - Absolutely s
tPCM 2 - Updated and slightly better than PCM 1 however still s
tPCM 3 - Updated from PCM 2 with a flash new touch-screen however still s
t compared to other marques, but it's getting thereHoHoHo said:
I can help here:
PCM 1 - Absolutely st
PCM 2 - Updated and slightly better than PCM 1 however still st
PCM 3 - Updated from PCM 2 with a flash new touch-screen however still st compared to other marques, but it's getting there
Ha Ha, definately a better description than mine PCM 1 - Absolutely s
tPCM 2 - Updated and slightly better than PCM 1 however still s
tPCM 3 - Updated from PCM 2 with a flash new touch-screen however still s
t compared to other marques, but it's getting thereI find the 997 turbo headlights far worse personally. They are trying to mimic older 911's looks and failing big time imho. At least the 996 turbo has a personality of its own. Can't say I liked the fried eggs looks of the 996.1 (non-turbos) generation though. When you add up the atrocious wheels and the strange looking exhaust pipes / rear quarter looks (997.1), I still think the 996 turbo is a much nicer looking car. The 997.2 gen car is much better IF it has the centre locking wheels.
The 997.1 can be made to look a bit better by swapping the wheels to start with. But the costs would escalate very quickly indeed.
The 997.1 can be made to look a bit better by swapping the wheels to start with. But the costs would escalate very quickly indeed.
Rocco1 said:
had one in cobalt blue (54 reg)and could not stand the hidious headlamps,so it had to go
r1flyguy1 said:
I may be corrected on this but
PCM1 were the original Sat/Nav stereo units fitted to early 97 Porkers (I think he year was roughly around that) cars onwards
PCM2 a far better version from 2003 onwards and with more updates but still not as good a sat nav than a Tom Tom
PCM3 even better with bluetooth and touch screen technology
Very basic analogy I know and someone will be along to fully fill you in on the differences but i stand to be corrected nonetheless
so i guess the PCM3 must have been the PCM as was in my 58 Cayanne GTSPCM1 were the original Sat/Nav stereo units fitted to early 97 Porkers (I think he year was roughly around that) cars onwards
PCM2 a far better version from 2003 onwards and with more updates but still not as good a sat nav than a Tom Tom
PCM3 even better with bluetooth and touch screen technology
Very basic analogy I know and someone will be along to fully fill you in on the differences but i stand to be corrected nonetheless
Rocco1 said:
now this would nice in RHD
http://www.goapr.com/media/photos/7215760929162170...
wow. http://www.goapr.com/media/photos/7215760929162170...
not sure you can tune a gen 2 like that. find a gen 1 with less than 10k miles for circa £55k and you'll be happy as larry. the pcm stuff is not relevant as pcm 2 and 3 are both crap compared to the sat nav in rep mobiles like the merc c class. we buy these cars to drive them not listen to the sat nav ior speak on the phone
erics said:
I find the 997 turbo headlights far worse personally. They are trying to mimic older 911's looks and failing big time imho. At least the 996 turbo has a personality of its own. Can't say I liked the fried eggs looks of the 996.1 (non-turbos) generation though. When you add up the atrocious wheels and the strange looking exhaust pipes / rear quarter looks (997.1), I still think the 996 turbo is a much nicer looking car. The 997.2 gen car is much better IF it has the centre locking wheels.
The 997.1 can be made to look a bit better by swapping the wheels to start with. But the costs would escalate very quickly indeed.
A true case of 'each to their own' on the headlights - I much prefer the earlier 986/996 headlights to the later 'turbo' 996 'lights and think the return to 'retro' headlights (if that makes sense)on the 997 looks far better. We're all different, ha ha!The 997.1 can be made to look a bit better by swapping the wheels to start with. But the costs would escalate very quickly indeed.
Rocco1 said:
had one in cobalt blue (54 reg)and could not stand the hidious headlamps,so it had to go
IMI A said:
wow.
not sure you can tune a gen 2 like that. find a gen 1 with less than 10k miles for circa £55k and you'll be happy as larry. the pcm stuff is not relevant as pcm 2 and 3 are both crap compared to the sat nav in rep mobiles like the merc c class. we buy these cars to drive them not listen to the sat nav ior speak on the phone
not bothered about the PCM never used them in the past.just finding one with low miles and with a light grey/stone sport trim and manual gearbox would be nice.not sure you can tune a gen 2 like that. find a gen 1 with less than 10k miles for circa £55k and you'll be happy as larry. the pcm stuff is not relevant as pcm 2 and 3 are both crap compared to the sat nav in rep mobiles like the merc c class. we buy these cars to drive them not listen to the sat nav ior speak on the phone
seriously thinking about selling my 964 3.3 turbo,unless i can make extra room for one more car!
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