997 turbo question
Discussion
ZeroH said:
By way of contrast, 997.1tt is the most disappointing turbo i've driven... nowhere near as competent or fast as the gen two pdk, and much less personality and feel + no faster than a 996tts/x50... caught in the middle imo.
Interesting I have a 996 turbo x50 and both a 997 turbo and 997.1 GT3 are tempting!g7jhp said:
Interesting I have a 996 turbo x50 and both a 997 turbo and 997.1 GT3 are tempting!
Try and test drive both.... if you already have an x50, you'll find the 7tt.1 offers more of the same but with a more modern interior.... gt3 on the other hand is a whole new and much more exciting experience
)mm450exc said:
Well - the gen1 has the Mezger which is a fully serviceable racing block(as does the gt2,gt2rs,gt3,gt3rs gen1 and gen2). Way over engineered for road use and very very expensive.
But that's all that's motorsport, isn't it - just the block? Everything else - liners, rods, crank, cams - is all normal mass-produced items? Is some different again for GT3? Just askin.
AMG Merc said:
One of the reasons I got a Gen I was the Metzger engine which I'm told is a bulletproof, motorsport derived lump. What does this mean and was I misinformed?
Not at all This is one of the reason why i too went for the Gen 1 apposed to Gen 2
Metzger engine is by far the best engine to date!
Rocco1 said:
AMG Merc said:
One of the reasons I got a Gen I was the Metzger engine which I'm told is a bulletproof, motorsport derived lump. What does this mean and was I misinformed?
Not at all This is one of the reason why i too went for the Gen 1 apposed to Gen 2
Metzger engine is by far the best engine to date!
Motorsport derived block is the basis for this expensive to manufacture, and very expensive to repair engine. As has already been said within this very thread the Gen2 is a step change upgrade over the Gen1. Gen2 uses the DFI engine which has, to date, proven largely trouble free.
If you're telling me the engine in my Gen1 turbo was better than the one in my Gen2 then I'm calling you out on it. It may well be the legendary Mezger, but the Gen2 is more powerful, slightly less laggy (to be fair BOTH engines show dramatically little lag) and more economical, so please explain to me, why is the Mezger based engine better???
FeelingLucky said:
Rocco1 said:
AMG Merc said:
One of the reasons I got a Gen I was the Metzger engine which I'm told is a bulletproof, motorsport derived lump. What does this mean and was I misinformed?
Not at all This is one of the reason why i too went for the Gen 1 apposed to Gen 2
Metzger engine is by far the best engine to date!
Motorsport derived block is the basis for this expensive to manufacture, and very expensive to repair engine. As has already been said within this very thread the Gen2 is a step change upgrade over the Gen1. Gen2 uses the DFI engine which has, to date, proven largely trouble free.
If you're telling me the engine in my Gen1 turbo was better than the one in my Gen2 then I'm calling you out on it. It may well be the legendary Mezger, but the Gen2 is more powerful, slightly less laggy (to be fair BOTH engines show dramatically little lag) and more economical, so please explain to me, why is the Mezger based engine better???
My fav turbo's are:
964
993
991
997
but to own would be 991 turbo s
Edited by Callughan on Monday 23 June 19:35
FeelingLucky said:
Yes totally misinformed, not bulletproof at all, see IMI A for details, who I believe was quoted in the region of £35K for an engine change.
Motorsport derived block is the basis for this expensive to manufacture, and very expensive to repair engine. As has already been said within this very thread the Gen2 is a step change upgrade over the Gen1. Gen2 uses the DFI engine which has, to date, proven largely trouble free.
If you're telling me the engine in my Gen1 turbo was better than the one in my Gen2 then I'm calling you out on it. It may well be the legendary Mezger, but the Gen2 is more powerful, slightly less laggy (to be fair BOTH engines show dramatically little lag) and more economical, so please explain to me, why is the Mezger based engine better???
How many catastrophic failures have there been on the mezger based engines since production ???Motorsport derived block is the basis for this expensive to manufacture, and very expensive to repair engine. As has already been said within this very thread the Gen2 is a step change upgrade over the Gen1. Gen2 uses the DFI engine which has, to date, proven largely trouble free.
If you're telling me the engine in my Gen1 turbo was better than the one in my Gen2 then I'm calling you out on it. It may well be the legendary Mezger, but the Gen2 is more powerful, slightly less laggy (to be fair BOTH engines show dramatically little lag) and more economical, so please explain to me, why is the Mezger based engine better???
Absolutely.
A VERY reliable engine.
Bulletproof?
NO.
My comments were intended as a response to AMG Merc, who stated that the reason he went Gen 1 was to get a Mezger based engine, in which case he was BADLY informed as the Gen2 car (whole package) is FAR superior.
A VERY reliable engine.
Bulletproof?
NO.
My comments were intended as a response to AMG Merc, who stated that the reason he went Gen 1 was to get a Mezger based engine, in which case he was BADLY informed as the Gen2 car (whole package) is FAR superior.
Edited by FeelingLucky on Monday 23 June 20:41
define this term bulletproof.
they can stick around 630bhp through the gen2 engine and 5 years on nobody has complained of a blown engine or turbo.
Gen 1 cars are great because they are £20k cheaper, not much else unless you going to go over 700hp and you'll need over 700hp to nail a tuned gen2 car to 100 from a standing start, you still won't beat it to 60.
they can stick around 630bhp through the gen2 engine and 5 years on nobody has complained of a blown engine or turbo.
Gen 1 cars are great because they are £20k cheaper, not much else unless you going to go over 700hp and you'll need over 700hp to nail a tuned gen2 car to 100 from a standing start, you still won't beat it to 60.
Adam B said:
Bit early to call on reliability of DFI gen 2 engine surely, might be very good but Mezger has had many years of proven reliability
I don't have the figures and won't pretend to, my intention is not to trash the Mezger engine, and couldn't even if I wanted to such is it's (deserved) reputation.Some on here get a little rabid over certain topics, PDK, electrical steering assist, air/water cooled, and Mezger.
It's well documented here and elsewhere it's design criteria, and it's road-going and racing applications. It would be also true to say that it's reasonably well documented the reasoning behind Porsche phasing it out. So I don't intend going into them in any depth.
Suffice it to say of all it's applications, the one it was probably least well suited to was the turbo, they had another engine chat could do a better job (discuss?) for less outlay. Hence that was the application that was phased out first. Next went the GT3. I believe I am correct in stating that it's only current application is racing, no coincidence, as that is what it was originally designed for, but alas, inevitably that will also disappear shortly.
But, back to the figures I don't have. Mezger based engines went into the GT1, GT2/3/RS 996-7 and turbo 996/7, all (to a greater or lesser degree) niche models. The DFI engine has gone into Gen2 997 Carerras, turbo and turbo S and ALL 991, not to mention the recent Cayman and Boxster. I suspect that there are now more DFI engines out there than Mezger, some four years old.
Carl_Docklands said:
define this term bulletproof.
they can stick around 630bhp through the gen2 engine and 5 years on nobody has complained of a blown engine or turbo.
Gen 1 cars are great because they are £20k cheaper, not much else unless you going to go over 700hp and you'll need over 700hp to nail a tuned gen2 car to 100 from a standing start, you still won't beat it to 60.
Speedart have been running with 650hp for many years on gen 2 the problem is pdk capacity and not the engine.they can stick around 630bhp through the gen2 engine and 5 years on nobody has complained of a blown engine or turbo.
Gen 1 cars are great because they are £20k cheaper, not much else unless you going to go over 700hp and you'll need over 700hp to nail a tuned gen2 car to 100 from a standing start, you still won't beat it to 60.
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