May be more than an RMS leak? Engine out pic. (997.1 GT3)

[ROK]

i'm no expert as i don't track my gt3 but my more daring buddies tell me it's harder to put power down when accelerating WOT and under heavy braking from high speeds the rear end feels much more unsettled. the easiest way to test is to jack up a wheel and spin it. if it spins freely, your LSD is likely toast.

i'm having my service guys check after they put the engine back in the arse end. regardless of whether it's still in good working order or not, i plan on spending the $ to get the Guards pieces packed into the stock housing which should last quite a long time (like it should from factory).

i'm just smh that porsche would put such a POS LSD in the car. why bother putting one in in the first place if they don't stand up to the rigors of even street use?

http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/997-gt2-gt3-...

Edited by ROK on Friday 27th April 04:06

[deadscoob]

Surely if an LSD had gone it would at least make a noise when turning - it can't just "stop working" without any signs.

Or has Porsche cleverly created a mechanical part in that when it is worn it doesn't make a noise or show other signs (unless you jack the car up and spin the wheel) so the owners never know.....

[puntograle]

Well, the GT3 LSD uses clutch plates. It is these that wear out. Assuming no other damage to the gearing, you will have a very well working (but open) diff.

A broken diff with broken gear teeth or something would be a different matter and as you suggest would give outward signs.

I still am not totally clear on this 'leap of faith' as mentioned by a respected garage recently to decide whether a diff needs attention.

[Phooey]

puntograle said:

I read many different opinions that GT3 diffs go at 5k/15k/25k miles and less so if tracked. How do you know if the diff is no longer locking? What are the symptoms? Slower acceleration from low speed?

Turn off all TC etc and do a burn-out. If 2 black lines - diff working.

[drpep]

nsm3 said:

Just going from the advert - it was at both Costellos & Nick Whales and both adverts listed the transplant as 52k with all the bills? Also remember Hammond describing the 6 GT3 engine as looking like a washing machine, which was a shame as it costs 38k?

Perhaps they are cheaper now they are no longer selling 3.6's?

There was a thread on here some time ago about that Nick Whale Orange RS. It's enough to ensure I never buy a car from them.

[supersport]

xmrichar said:

SFO said:

is it standard practice to have engine out at 10k miles or 4 years old??

I wondered that too! I can only assume it's designed to be easy to drop out, and thus it's cheaper for them to drop the whole thing out for easy access than try to work on it in (restricted) situ. (Says the 986 owner who hasn't been brave enough to even try to get to the engine yet!)

The 911 was designed with the notion of being able to drop the engine very easily, trackside even. There is a great picture from 63/64 of Ferry Porsche with the back of a 911 jacked up and allow it to be worked on.

Not sure about the modern kettles, but with the air cooled you can support the engine/gear box on a jack, undo the bolts and lift the car off of the top with a lift, easy. It's certainly not the kind of job that strikes fear into an owner like it would with a standard make of car.




In fact with the 964/993 especially the C4s, I believe you have to drop the engine to do a clutch change.

Edited by supersport on Friday 27th April 09:23

[puntograle]

Phooey said:

Turn off all TC etc and do a burn-out. If 2 black lines - diff working.

Interesting. I can see the logic if one wheel was on a more slippery surface - assuming it slips first then the open diff would not allow the grippier side to gain traction.

However, if on equal grip surface on both sides, might not both wheels spin at the same rate?

(though with the scarcity of PZero Corsas, I am not in a hurry to try this test!)

[xmrichar]

supersport said:

The 911 was designed with the notion of being able to drop the engine very easily, trackside even. There is a great picture from 63/64 of Ferry Porsche with the back of a 911 jacked up and allow it to be worked on.

Exactly the sort of thing I had in mind. Great pic btw :-)

[Slippydiff]

drpep said:

There was a thread on here some time ago about that Nick Whale Orange RS. It's enough to ensure I never buy a car from them.

Easy Nigel, the car being discussed here (ie the one with the replacement engine) belonged to a PHer. I roadtested the car earlier this year, it was superb example and a great spec. It's now sold. It was on the market with Castello Cars and was nothing to do with Nick Whale Sports Cars until the two companies merged last year.

Nick Whale Sports Cars did indeed get caught with their pants down with a GT3 RS, but I suspect it was Nick Whale Sports Cars and nothing to do with Solihull Porsche (which Nick Whale did own along with OPC Leicester) until he sold out to the Sytner Group some years ago. I am however, happy to be corrected as to whether the re-shelled Gen 1 RS you're alluding to was bought of Nick Whale Sports Cars or an OPC owned by Nick Whale.

[Trev450]

puntograle said:

Well, the GT3 LSD uses clutch plates. It is these that wear out. Assuming no other damage to the gearing, you will have a very well working (but open) diff.

Although I have no experience with GT3 lsd's, I have owned a number of cars with plated diffs and can confirm that there are no obvious signs of damage when the plates wear other than a reduced/lack of functionality.

[supersport]

xmrichar said:

supersport said:

The 911 was designed with the notion of being able to drop the engine very easily, trackside even. There is a great picture from 63/64 of Ferry Porsche with the back of a 911 jacked up and allow it to be worked on.

Exactly the sort of thing I had in mind. Great pic btw :-)

I would like to see someone try that with a GT3 Although if the front was on soft ground, the nose would dig in to stop it slipping.

[fioran0]

Fwiw, if it's a diff for a 997 and you track at all, seriously consider buying a whole new diff rather than repacking when it's done. The housing is of low quality.
On the 996, just repack, you still have a motorsport quality LSD housing.

Edited by fioran0 on Friday 27th April 13:56

[Zyp]

Out of interest, would this be the same LSD that's fitted to the Box Spyder/Cayman R?

[cragswinter]

Zyp said:

Size of the exhaust!

Tiny isn't it when you consider a normal car has the entire length of the car to run

[Zyp]

cragswinter said:

Zyp said:

Size of the exhaust!

Tiny isn't it when you consider a normal car has the entire length of the car to run

The size of the silencers amazed me.
Like elephant ears.

[fioran0]

Zyp said:

Out of interest, would this be the same LSD that's fitted to the Box Spyder/Cayman R?

I don't know much, if indeed anything about those cars but I believe the box/cayman platform uses an even worse LSD though they are made by the same 3rd party supplier as the GT3 version. Box/cayman is a no preload type with very very low friction discs inside a similarly low quality housing.

Edited by fioran0 on Friday 27th April 14:27

[Zyp]

fioran0 said:

Zyp said:

Out of interest, would this be the same LSD that's fitted to the Box Spyder/Cayman R?

I don't know much, if indeed anything about those cars but I believe the box/cayman platform uses an even worse LSD. No preload type with very low friction discs inside a similarly low quality housing.

So, those cars that have been used around the Experience Centre track *may* have buggered diffs when they come to sell them on?
Or would that be something that's checked/rectified during a pre-sale inspection.

I'm wondering how these inferior (if that's what they are) diffs would stand up to a few trackdays, then?

[fioran0]

I can't tell if you are genuinely asking or taking a tone that's incredulous and suggesting I'm speaking from a hole other than my mouth.
I'll assume face value and respond as such......

Actually found this via google. Might be a better read. I only know Cups and GT3 as an extension.
http://www.planet-9.com/cayman-boxster-competition...

Edited by fioran0 on Friday 27th April 14:34

[Zyp]

[quote=fioran0]I can't tell if you are genuinely asking or taking a tone that's incredulous and suggesting I'm speaking from a hole other than my mouth.
I'll assume face value and respond as such......

Actually found this via google. Might be a better read.
http://www.planet-9.com/cayman-boxster-competition...
[/quote]

Crikey mate - no!
Didn't think I came across as such!

All your posts appear to tell us you know what you're talking about!

Genuinely interested, as I know diddly squat about these things and am possibly planning to hit a track this year in the Spyder.

[Cheburator mk2]

puntograle said:

Interesting. I can see the logic if one wheel was on a more slippery surface - assuming it slips first then the open diff would not allow the grippier side to gain traction.

However, if on equal grip surface on both sides, might not both wheels spin at the same rate?

(though with the scarcity of PZero Corsas, I am not in a hurry to try this test!)

I have left two perfect 11metres long 265mm wide black lines with a Porsche with an open diff...