Picking up a 991 today for a ten day test

Picking up a 991 today for a ten day test

Author
Discussion

RDMcG

Original Poster:

19,093 posts

206 months

Friday 27th April 2012
quotequote all
Well, here goes. All my prejudices are here. Electric steering, no handbrake,too big and so on. Being used to the edginess of the 997RS it should be interesting to see how it feels in the real world, not trying to set a record Ring time, but a mix of city and long distance driving. I will post impressions when I have had a chance to really get to know it.
Actually, in all honesty I am really interested to see how much progress has been madesmile

hornetrider

63,161 posts

204 months

Friday 27th April 2012
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I realise you are an excellent customer... but 10 days!! You lucky bar steward!

Not Ideal

2,898 posts

187 months

Friday 27th April 2012
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Look forward to your thoughts - your write-ups are always nice and thorough!

Kidhaa

398 posts

206 months

Friday 27th April 2012
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i never get a 911 now, only boxster ( ps not that i mind )

think last time i got a 911 i ended going way up north

maybe thats why?

RDMcG

Original Poster:

19,093 posts

206 months

Friday 27th April 2012
quotequote all
I'm curious to see what its like as a real life road car, because that's its major market. Its always easy to do the "last real Porsche" refrain. The last real Porsche was the..umm...356 pre-A,2.7RS,993TT,996RS,997 4.0??..... I sometimes feel that its like an old movie where the old chaps are sittin' on the porch, whittlin' and chawin' baccy and reminiscing about them good old days.

So, I will not load my cassette of American Pie and head for the Drive-In, but try to see if this is a reasonable car that works in 2012smile. In any case, it has no cassette deck.

Damn.

Old Trout

1,667 posts

174 months

Friday 27th April 2012
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8 track?

RDMcG

Original Poster:

19,093 posts

206 months

Friday 27th April 2012
quotequote all
Old Trout said:
8 track?
Its less 8 track-focused than road-focused I hear.

Toooldforthis

153 posts

146 months

Friday 27th April 2012
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Looking forward to hearing what you have to say and whether the 991 is as dramatic a change as some make out or a subtle improvement on the classic theme

cardigankid

8,849 posts

211 months

Saturday 28th April 2012
quotequote all
It will be interesting to hear what you think.

My experience is limited to a couple of hours test drive, and my issues are as follows:-

1. Seating position

All the magazines rave about how ergonomic and comfortable it is. To me that was achieved simply by fitting good sports seats, which we know that Porsche can do, and by raising the central console to near chest height so you can touch every control without bending in the slightest. This is fine but not rocket science.

2. Seating / View Out

This is where the 991 feels like a MUCH bigger car. The view is totally different from any previous 911. It feels almost front engined, as if the bonnet rises in front of you then falls away. The 'signature' front wings, which were always so good for 'aiming' a 911, are reduced to crease lines at the outer edges. The nose feels a long way away. It was positively refreshing to step back into a 997.

3. Driving

Yes it is fast, even in basic Carrera form, it is smooth, it is a very refined GT. I never noticed any problems with the steering, I never noticed anything about the steering at all. It seemed to me that it is a very good car, but other than in basic outline, and even that is so big now that it blends with other cars on the road, it isn't really a 911 at all. It is a Panamera Coupe.

Mutt

1,115 posts

190 months

Saturday 28th April 2012
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cardigankid said:
1. Seating position

All the magazines rave about how ergonomic and comfortable it is. To me that was achieved simply by fitting good sports seats, which we know that Porsche can do, and by raising the central console to near chest height so you can touch every control without bending in the slightest. This is fine but not rocket science.
I think you're under-selling how difficult other manufacturers find this and how subtle it can be. One example is pedal layout. OK, this is perhaps less of an issue in Tiptronic or PDK cars, but I just love the way you can jump in to a 986, 996, 987 or 997 (and I assume, 991 and hopefully 981) and heal-and-toe off the bat. I've not experienced this in any other car I've driven, even other performance cars with floor-hinged accelerators such as BMWs.

RDMcG

Original Poster:

19,093 posts

206 months

Saturday 28th April 2012
quotequote all
Well. let's start with the spec:

991S, with following options:

Lime gold paint
black leather
Premium package w/18 way seats
PDCC
Sport exhaust system
PDK
Light design package
Park assist
Sport Chrono
Electric sunroof
Power steering plus
Bose surround sound system
Sirius satellite radio, ( Its an NA car)
Electric folding mirrors
Sport design steering wheel.

Since Euro prices are different , the total delivered price is going to be irrelevant, but base price is $110K, delivered price $146K. I will report on the experience when I have a chance smile......





cardigankid

8,849 posts

211 months

Saturday 28th April 2012
quotequote all
Mutt said:
cardigankid said:
1. Seating position

All the magazines rave about how ergonomic and comfortable it is. To me that was achieved simply by fitting good sports seats, which we know that Porsche can do, and by raising the central console to near chest height so you can touch every control without bending in the slightest. This is fine but not rocket science.
I think you're under-selling how difficult other manufacturers find this and how subtle it can be.
I agree that many other manufacturers get this wrong - the Jaguar XK seats were useless until they came up with the latest sports seats option, the standard seats in an XF are agonisingly hopeless. The seats in an Audi A4 are pathetic. Mercedes are little better. Porsche's standard seats are nothing to write home about. The only explanation I can offer is that their punters are mugs with rich chiropractors, and because they are not pushed, the manufacturers just don't try hard enough. An XK steering wheel is bogging, while a Porsche one is beautifully tactile. Why? It's obvious what's wrong so why don't they fix it?

But in respect of seating and controls a 997 is every bit as good as a 991. And the view out from the driver's seat feels like a 911, and it drives like a 911. The 991, basically, doesn't do either of these. It may be fast but I also reckon they have tuned it to do the Nurburgring, quite possibly on special tyres, and piloted by an ace, to give the impression that the car is harder edged than it is. It feels no harder edged than a top end BMW 6-Series. A Lotus Evora leaves it for stone dead.

As to heel and toeing, you must have Elvis on the stereo, because just about every Porsche produced these days has PDK.

While we are on the topic, it has got a pair of Xenon lights tucked under a standard issue 997 style headlight cover. What is the purpose of that? OK, I thought that the 997 was a step backwards from the 996 - from a genuinely brilliant piece of modern design towards self parody. The 991 I just don't get at all. It's like a different car shoved uncomfortably into a 911's skin, a near incompetent piece of car design. Nice sunroof though.

Edited by cardigankid on Saturday 28th April 15:22

J-P

4,350 posts

205 months

Saturday 28th April 2012
quotequote all
anonymous said:
[redacted]
+1 H&T hasn't been an issue in BMW's I own/ed.

Lordglenmorangie

3,053 posts

204 months

Saturday 28th April 2012
quotequote all
cardigankid said:
It will be interesting to hear what you think.

My experience is limited to a couple of hours test drive, and my issues are as follows:-

1. Seating position

All the magazines rave about how ergonomic and comfortable it is. To me that was achieved simply by fitting good sports seats, which we know that Porsche can do, and by raising the central console to near chest height so you can touch every control without bending in the slightest. This is fine but not rocket science.

2. Seating / View Out

This is where the 991 feels like a MUCH bigger car. The view is totally different from any previous 911. It feels almost front engined, as if the bonnet rises in front of you then falls away. The 'signature' front wings, which were always so good for 'aiming' a 911, are reduced to crease lines at the outer edges. The nose feels a long way away. It was positively refreshing to step back into a 997.

3. Driving

Yes it is fast, even in basic Carrera form, it is smooth, it is a very refined GT. I never noticed any problems with the steering, I never noticed anything about the steering at all. It seemed to me that it is a very good car, but other than in basic outline, and even that is so big now that it blends with other cars on the road, it isn't really a 911 at all. It is a Panamera Coupe.
The best description I have ever seen (it is a Panamera Coup) I am afraid it's what Joe public wants especial over the pond wink

Lordglenmorangie

3,053 posts

204 months

Saturday 28th April 2012
quotequote all
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I was talking about the pond in our village biggrin

RDMcG

Original Poster:

19,093 posts

206 months

Sunday 29th April 2012
quotequote all
VERY early impressions after a few miles:
It certainly feels big, and really refined. The whole "shut off at the stop" is vaguely Prius however, took it into some very,very twisty back roads. The flatness of the cornering feels almost clinical to me. Its the cornering that impresses though steering feel not so good. The good news is that I have a long trip (600 miles) with some twisties on it next week.
However, first sense is that it feels amszingly stiff. Much more appealing to the majority of buyers than the madness of the GT3RS that I favour.
I want to give it a really good long trip. Monday coming soon. I have a feeling that many will like it. As a non-God of driving I can see the broader appeal,with fewer of the historical compromises of the 911 ......

kingstondc5

7,433 posts

203 months

Sunday 29th April 2012
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RDMcG said:
Its the cornering that impresses though steering feel not so good.
Do you think that coming from a GT3, the electric steering is not something your used to, hence why your initial impressions are that its not so good or do you think that by the end of the 10 days, your opinion/perception would have changed some what, regarding the electric steering?



RDMcG

Original Poster:

19,093 posts

206 months

Sunday 29th April 2012
quotequote all
kingstondc5 said:
Do you think that coming from a GT3, the electric steering is not something your used to, hence why your initial impressions are that its not so good or do you think that by the end of the 10 days, your opinion/perception would have changed some what, regarding the electric steering?
Its a good question. I do not hate the 991 steering at all..its just not at all the same. Its not a fair comparison in total I think.

The RS is a car that turns you into a misanthrope. You don't want a passenger. At idle the Mezger sounds like ball bearings in a spin dryer, and then you get it up to 5000 RPM and the thing has one of the greatest sounds ever. You hunt for long tunnels, twisty roads and track days.
On the other hand, its not pleasant to potter along in heavy traffic, the seats are non adjustable, there are few creature comforts, and for the few non-enthusiast passengers a spirited drive on a rough road is as much fun as skateboarding down the stairs while wearing armour. It is a car that you want to drive intensely for a few hours at a time, not take on a quiet weekend tour of the countryside. As a result, it has somewhat limited utility and appeal. It will also bite the unwary. Handling on PS Cups on very cold or wet conditions is less than perfect. ( I have heard from posters here that the 996RS has even fewer compromises and is an even better track car).
In summary, its not for everyone. Edgy cars rarely are, or we would all be driving Caterhamssmile

So far the 991 on the other hand is much more of a very good road car in this first appearance. The cornering is simply mind-blowing. Quite a lot to like . Great seats, I enjoy the PDK, with which I am familiar. I find the DFI engine very quiet though. Standard brakes are more than adequate for a quick stop. Decent sound system ( I never turn it on in the RS), a very well presented nav system. Tomorrow I taking a 500 mile run so should have a better feel then. My wife, ( who has driven standard forever and who had an XK140 when I met her), does not like the RS at all but very much likes the refinement of the 991 so far.
I think that the extra width on the front is gone to make a big difference as the next variant appears also. Probably a good idea to throw for book of 911 handling and driving and start again, because it feels so different. I all provide more detail as I get to know it. On first impression its a serious sports car when you want it thrash it but in regular driving is just great for loafing around.


Edited by RDMcG on Sunday 29th April 21:03


Edited by RDMcG on Sunday 29th April 21:03

RDMcG

Original Poster:

19,093 posts

206 months

Sunday 29th April 2012
quotequote all
The colour is..umm...challenging:



Side profile looks great and the 20" wheels balance it nicely.







Ugliest feature is the sunroof



Interior is hugely better. I much prefer the thicker steering wheel which is thankfully free from buttons. . There is a push fit to release the cupholders. It look alike aluminium but it plastic, feels cheap and shows every fingerprint. This is true for the trim strip on the doors also.
Germans do not have drive-ins for coffee of course, and Porsche is no different from the other German manufacturers in providing amusing cupholders.

You may argue that they should not exist, and you would be right, but the design process is interesting. What I call the PDK (PorscheDoppelKaffeholder) is an entertaining thing that looks like a set of handcuffs on sticks, and spring the coffee cup out there it can spill into the nav screen or on the Passengers's knees in one hits a bump. Best not used.

(Coffee cups added for illustration)





Rear seats fold down and provide useful parcel space. Unlike my RS the boot remains cool all the time.








Edited by RDMcG on Sunday 29th April 20:58

Mutt

1,115 posts

190 months

Sunday 29th April 2012
quotequote all
RDMcG said:
The colour is..umm...challenging
Genuinely laughed. It is rather, isn't it?