Picking up a 991 today for a ten day test

[MrBurns]

Tony 1234 said:

On looking at the previous model it does now look very outdated unfortunately(IMO)

...not a surpising view given youve shelled out the best part of 100 big ones on one.

Dont get me wrong though I do really like them. progress is good, but equally saw a spanking new 997 GTS 4 on the road yesterday and was in all sorts of bother!

Edited by MrBurns on Tuesday 8th May 11:13

Edited by MrBurns on Tuesday 8th May 11:52

[Manks]

betternotbigger said:

....the more experienced 911 owners here (and I don't particularly count myself amongst them after a mere 5 years in Pork) derive a great deal of their satisfaction with the car from the effort made to overcome these challenges and unlock the unique magic of the 911.

That's a bit like only dating ugly women for the challenge of maintaining an erection and getting to like them for their personality.

[SFO]

crystalmethod said:

And if I do go 991 I wish I could de spec that motorised steering column. It seems so un 911. I know that's unlikely and also irrational but all the same.

don't spec full electric seats and your steering column will remain manual

[SFO]

the 'debate' between 997 owners and 991 owners is very similar to that between 987 and 981 owners to be .. each group is convinced theirs is best ..

naturally, you want to believe that you have made the correct choice ...

[DSM2]

Tony 1234 said:

My 991S is the first 911 I've bought, I ordered the 996 and 997 when they both came out and changed my mind after the test drive, to much bobbing in a straight line and when cornering fast the car wanting to go straight on!!

I was prepared to have my deposit returned yet again after I put my order in for a 991S, however, after driving the car it was obvious Porsche had moved it on to be a better driving machine and it was miles better than ANY 997 variant.

On looking at the previous model it does now look very outdated unfortunately(IMO)

So, despite only test driving the earlier models, you feel qualified to make such a comparison even though your own statement indicates a lack of ability to understand how to drive a rear engined car? Mmm, OK.

I sense a desperation amongst 991 buyers on here to justify their purchases. To themselves, perhaps?

[Blue62]

Manks said:

That's a bit like only dating ugly women for the challenge of maintaining an erection and getting to like them for their personality.

I think that's what my dad meant when he said you have to work at marraige! I don't agree that the 997 looks dated, but then I don't think that any 911 looks dated, with the exception of the 996. Having owned various 993/996 and 997 they all offered something slightly different at the time and I enjoyed them on that basis. I think the 991 is a great car and I want one, but I am enjoying my GTS and have just got to the point of really appreciating its qualities, but I don't go with the '911ness' stuff on here, it's pretty much a stock response every time a new incarnation of the 911 is unveiled and I think it's pretty blinkered. A 991s with PDK and PDCC is a very attractive package.

[Harris_I]

Tony 1234 said:

My 991S is the first 911 I've bought, I ordered the 996 and 997 when they both came out and changed my mind after the test drive, to much bobbing in a straight line and when cornering fast the car wanting to go straight on!!

I was prepared to have my deposit returned yet again after I put my order in for a 991S, however, after driving the car it was obvious Porsche had moved it on to be a better driving machine and it was miles better than ANY 997 variant.

On looking at the previous model it does now look very outdated unfortunately(IMO)

You've hit the nail on the head (though it's been mentioned before).

I think by "better driving machine" it may be more instructive to say "a more accessible driving machine". If Porsche continue to dial out what once made a 911 unique, then they access a wider market.

It may be helpful to remind ourselves that the 911 is perhaps the most successful racecar of all time, and that quirky layout has a lot to do with it. Now it's "just" another GT, albeit an extraordinarily accomplished one.

Personally, I wish they'd called it something else. Ummmm..... 928?

[Manks]

DSM2 said:

So, despite only test driving the earlier models, you feel qualified to make such a comparison even though your own statement indicates a lack of ability to understand how to drive a rear engined car? Mmm, OK.

I sense a desperation amongst 991 buyers on here to justify their purchases. To themselves, perhaps?

Well, I've owned and driven numerous earlier models and I broadly agree with Tony.

And for the record, I don't feel the need to justify my 991 purchase. I tested the 991 a lot before purchase, so had the opportunity to make an informed choice. Any justification in my own mind happened months ago.

The anti 991 sentiment is coming only from people who haven't got one. If the dissenters were able to swap their existing drive for a 991 at no cost I cannot help but feel the 991 would suddenly become the darling child of the 911 world.

[mollytherocker]

Some interesting views on here, especially the guy who has bought a 991 because it doesn't drive like a 911.

I suppose its a valid a view as any other and I guess justifies Porsches direction.

MTR

[Blue62]

I'm sure there's a degree of envy in their Manks, but I doubt that is the over riding factor. It's an interesting discussion for those of us who are fortunate enough to have owned and driven 911's and there's always going to be an element of hardcore enthusiasts who will shun the new model because it takes the car further away from the original. It's a bit like steam trains mate, you won't win the argument and have to accept that the 991 serves up something different, it all comes down to preference and in my case I'm convinced that I would ultimately prefer a 991, but can understand why others would disagree.

[J-P]

Manks said:

The anti 991 sentiment is coming only from people who haven't got one....

Well of course it is! Just like the pro 991 sentiment comes from people that have one! Nobody is right in this 991 vs 997 argument - it's merely subjective preference. The very fact that you have bought one highlights that your subjective preference is the 991 and a great car it is to boot! But that doesn't mean that those who prefer the dynamic quirks of a 997 are wrong to like it more than a 991, their subjective preference is just different to yours.

I think your justification for people being anti 991 is wrong - it's not just the price of it, it's tangibly different to drive - you would have to concede this yourself as you changed from a 997.1 to a 991. Even if you prefer the way a 991 drives, don't you think it's possible that somebody might prefer the way a 997 drives?

[oilslurper]

The OPs post and many others have made for great reading but as rarely happens here (yeah right)this thread is rapidly decending into a p**sing contest...

If youve bought / buying a 991 - great choice, imo shows the right level of technical and design progression based on the model it replaces, certainly given what other marquees are up to. Correct, you dont need to justify how you spend youre money and at the same as you dont need to be dismissive to the previous models...there all ruddy good in their own way - horses for courses and all that

991 is with us - imo it thumps all the other new stuff out there, R8, GTR...would you? Plus theres plenty of older metal in the classifieds if it dont float your boat.

[franki68]

I am quite neutral as I do not currently own either a 991 or 997 although I have owned many ,I have also driven every type,gt3,turbo etc etc.

Its quite simple imo,the 991s is all things considered a better car.The r8 and gtr moved the game on from the 997,but now porsche is back as king of the daily useable sportscar.

You can argue about a reduction in steering feel but I thought it was a good system,but in every other respect the 991 is better,it rides better,handles better ,has a better gearbox (well the pdk is anyway) ,is better looking,is better built,has a better quality interior ,sounds much better .

[Peter Cee]

Drove a 991 S back to back with a 997 GTS last week on the Porsche Experience Centre handling track.

Now I know the track is a bit tight and twisty with no chance of showing off a cars high speed abilities, but.....

I thought the 997GTS felt quicker and more agile than the 991S, which I thought felt a little ungainly and a bit 'dead' in comparison.

Although doubtless the 991 is an excellent GT car, as a sports car the 997GTS felt better.

But then exactly the same thing has been said about each iteration of the 911 - so no surprise there.

[Manks]

Peter Cee said:

Drove a 991 S back to back with a 997 GTS last week on the Porsche Experience Centre handling track.

Now I know the track is a bit tight and twisty with no chance of showing off a cars high speed abilities, but.....

I thought the 997GTS felt quicker and more agile than the 991S, which I thought felt a little ungainly and a bit 'dead' in comparison.

Although doubtless the 991 is an excellent GT car, as a sports car the 997GTS felt better.

But then exactly the same thing has been said about each iteration of the 911 - so no surprise there.

Was this a GTS4?

Not driven one of those around Porsche's track, but I've driven the 2wd 997 there and 2wd 991 and the latter was quite a bit quicker round the track.

Can well imagine the GTS4 would be well suited to that track though.

[Peter Cee]

Manks said:

Was this a GTS4?

Not driven one of those around Porsche's track, but I've driven the 2wd 997 there and 2wd 991 and the latter was quite a bit quicker round the track.

Can well imagine the GTS4 would be well suited to that track though.

Just remembered - it was the 4 (thay said no 991 4's were available yet)

But it felt pretty obvious to me that the GTS felt quicker than a normal 997 and so it should with 408 horsepower - but I was surprised that the 991 felt no better as I was expecting good things after all the hype - but then a small test track isn't the 'Ring.

You could definately feel a difference in handling between the 2 cars - personally I preferred the GTS which felt like there was more driver feedback.

Edited by Peter Cee on Tuesday 8th May 14:44

[GuillaumeB]

Peter Cee said:

Drove a 991 S back to back with a 997 GTS last week on the Porsche Experience Centre handling track.

Now I know the track is a bit tight and twisty with no chance of showing off a cars high speed abilities, but.....

I thought the 997GTS felt quicker and more agile than the 991S, which I thought felt a little ungainly and a bit 'dead' in comparison.

Although doubtless the 991 is an excellent GT car, as a sports car the 997GTS felt better.

But then exactly the same thing has been said about each iteration of the 911 - so no surprise there.

Ok I think I'll wade in now... I own a GTS and I'm very familiar with the PEC having been there several times now, not just for driving experiences and on Porsche GB promotional days but also both Precision and Performance driving courses.

What I noticed when I was last there trying out the 991 was the lack of understeer compared to my GTS. Now I understand that a lot of this comes down to car control and balance i.e. the driver, however applying pretty much the same techniques I found that the 991 was just that much more compliant and I could go quite a bit faster. I tried both the basic manual and fully specc'd 991 with PDK, PDCC etc etc

You are right regarding the lack of big open stretches to really open up the engine however there is plenty to do on the low friction circuit practicing drifting techniques.

On the kick plate - amazingly - the car would correct itself and put on opposite lock if you took your hands off the steering wheel - this was entering at around 18 MPH. I was told by the instructor that this was the Power Steering Plus doing its magic. All you have to do is control the throttle and you are through to the big Michelin man. Ok maybe not quite as easy as that but you catch my drift (no pun intended!). This is just one of many many safety systems that are built into the car and make it one of the most sophisticated sports cars out there. I experienced some of the other systems at Stowe Circuit (across the bridge at Silverstone) namely losing traction when entering a corner at high speed (in the pouring rain). The car (a 991S with PDK and PDCC) was totally unphased and the electronic interventions just seemed so organic and progressive if that makes any sense. I was able to drive the car just like I would drive a Carrera S or GTS - i.e. like a proper 911; fast and right on the edge!

I think the GTS is an awesome car, after all I own one. But I am in no doubts that the 991 takes it all to another level. The only problem is that it's expensive and Porsche aren't making it easy for some of us with less that 1 year old cars to upgrade (terrible PX and no other incentives). Personally I like all the refinement in the new car; at the moment I am driving round with a plastic dashboard so that probably amplifies the impact of the new interior on my senses!! However the GTS is just so good that most of the time I just don't notice it.

So there you go: I think it's possible to love both cars.

[DSM2]

Manks said:

Well, I've owned and driven numerous earlier models and I broadly agree with Tony.

And for the record, I don't feel the need to justify my 991 purchase. I tested the 991 a lot before purchase, so had the opportunity to make an informed choice. Any justification in my own mind happened months ago.

The anti 991 sentiment is coming only from people who haven't got one. If the dissenters were able to swap their existing drive for a 991 at no cost I cannot help but feel the 991 would suddenly become the darling child of the 911 world.

Well, of course if I could swap my 997 for ANY other car worth another £50K or more for no cost, I would. Who wouldn't?

And I can't see why people who 'haven't got one' would develop an 'anti 991 sentiment'. I can see why those who have committed would be convinced of its superiority.

[Tony 1234]

To answer some points made on here.

1/ I have driven all the late 997 variants at different times and I have to say the 991 is quicker/easier to drive than a turbo (for an 'oldie' like me at least)

2/ I've never regretted for a second my purchase which is a 'stop-gap' car (I think) because I've had a letter of intent on a turbo for a few month's now

3/ Sorry if I've posted my picture a few times but I really do like the car and like to show it off at any opportunity.

4/ I took part in a dealer track....er..... drive day some month's ago and I/we hammered the b*lls off a GT3 and a GTS, something which I'd never do in my car.

[RDMcG]

Well..time to say good bye to the 991...pulled it out this morning:



into a wet day..





I drove it in the wet several times, and it has superb grip, even on wet
bumpy roads. I tried gradually more aggressive braking on a fairly slippery stretch of empty road and it sure inspires confidence.

So, have the father ,Son and the Holy Ghost caught the last train to the coast, and has the 911 music died?......



My personal summary follows.

Edited by RDMcG on Tuesday 8th May 16:29