Picking up a 991 today for a ten day test
Discussion
Tony 1234 said:
For me a prescription lens in Maui-Jim glasses circa £480-£500 does the job just fine.
I have a pair somewhere. WIll try. Its not a huge deal, but its the first Porsche where I have noticed this, and I do not wear sunglasses all the time. I have racked up about 1500km n the last five days is all sort of light conditions, so I do notice this.cayman-black said:
Those RS,s are just lovely ,the 7.2 interior is really nice. 991 Hmm. Better to ask how it compares to the M6?
Its streets ahead of the M6 apart from raw power. The M6 is great for hauling down the autobahn, where I ran mine a 200MPH, but its a heavy thing on a track and under braked. I like the interior though.(some might think mine is OTT). The 991 does not compare with the M6 and would eat it alive in any sort of twisty road in my view. Its just a much later generation of car. My M6 interior below:
991 is more functional although M6 seats are basically a tie for comfort.
cardigankid said:
You're right.
It is a very fine car, no question, but as RDMCG says, it is another model, like the E-Type compared with the XK150. personally I don't care how fast it is, because what I want is the sensation of controlling a rear engined 911, and this car is not going to give me that.
As to its looks, I feel that it is dressed up as a 911, for no especially good engineering reason, but rather to convince the traditionalists that it is less of a step forward than it actually is. I burned to own a 997. I dont burn to own this. It leaves me cold.
A Cayman is probably the way forward.
I am quite impressed with it, and have no problem with the feeling of control. It is evidently less detailed in the steering, but overall, its a great package.It is a very fine car, no question, but as RDMCG says, it is another model, like the E-Type compared with the XK150. personally I don't care how fast it is, because what I want is the sensation of controlling a rear engined 911, and this car is not going to give me that.
As to its looks, I feel that it is dressed up as a 911, for no especially good engineering reason, but rather to convince the traditionalists that it is less of a step forward than it actually is. I burned to own a 997. I dont burn to own this. It leaves me cold.
A Cayman is probably the way forward.
graemel said:
This is a great read RDMcG. "a Panamera Coupe" That did make me chuckle and probably a very true analogy
I understand the analogy,but this car does not fit the description for me, except when its in touring/auto mode. When you drop it into sport plus and find a good twisty road, its a true, hardass sports car, nothing less. What its not is a retro 911, but a 458 is not a Ferrari 275GTB, and a 2012 M5 is not a first gen M5 either. I always worry about trying to look back and parse out each part of a past car that you want to immortalize. Its interesting when people talk about the superiority of the Cayman with a mid-engined architecture and others bemoan the 911 when it reduces its tail happiness when it is presumably bringing more Cayman-like handling to the 911
.The question is whether the package as a whole works for you. My guess is more appeal to a wider audience, but we will have to see how it does. Each day I drive it I like it a lot more. A lot.
HoHoHo said:
And they gave you a ten day test because...........
You'll be on the order list quicker than you can turn in a parking lot using electronic steering
Good thread, keep it coming!
Nope..I occasionally write articles for magazines. I tend to hang onto the cars I have and add one now and then. I will certainly want to think about the 991 RS but obviously its not for a while. This basic platform here seems very well designed to me, so it should be fascinating what they do with it. I am eagerly awaiting news on what replaces the Mezger engine for instance, what transmissions will be offered, and how decontented and lightened. As usual, there are people who like the C4S, Turbo and so on for their own good reasons. My personal bias is RWD naturally aspirated,though I will almost certainly go PDK. I have enough manual cars and I think its getting to the end of the line for the three pedal car. (Hopefully it will be offered for those who prefer it.)You'll be on the order list quicker than you can turn in a parking lot using electronic steering
Good thread, keep it coming!
Manks said:
Hmmm. I still think manual cars will ultimately trend downwards in popularity.
The numbers in the US coincide with a stunning cage in the marketplace away from large V8s into small economy cars, caused by fuel prices. When you think of it, US modern cities are designed around the car,and cheap fuel. Places like Phoenix barely have sidewalks. This means that people are used to long distances. When gas goes up , combined with persistent unemployment and an ageing fleet of cars, the total impact has been this change. My sense is that the switch to manual there is part of that trend..economy, not performance.As for manuals...AMG is gone, Ferrari basically gone, BMW well on the way. In Germany very few cars are sold now with stick shifts.
Obviously, I grew up with manual..learned on a three speed column in a Hillman Minx. However, people entering the market today will be different. Manuals are huge fun when you have an empty country road or a track day. The steering is the best I have personally had on any car, including other Porsches .
Personally, driving an RS in nose-to-tail traffic on poorly maintained urban roads is not a thrilling experience. Some people are extremely skilled here at PH ( I know there are posers too), and for those with the expertise, driving on PS Cup tires in the rain is no problem; for me it is not confidence -building.
Four laps of the Nordschleife in heavy rain driving the RS.2 left me almost shaking, and when I saw a CGT written off in front of me, that was the end of my day
The RS is a niche car, more written about than sold, won just about every possible comparo for performance, but a rounding error in annual Porsche sales. I would not personally have one as an only car. I could easily see a 991 (particularly when the C4S comes) as a four season, all weather car.For those who prefer manuals for very good and valid reasons, I suspect that there will be Porsches available. I think I will move to the dark side next time. I recall when I bought the M6, my first paddle shift car, it took a while to get used to it. (the SMG transmission is very inferior to PDK, but with a bit of practice you can shift very quickly and smoothly).
Now, I jump from a paddle to manual and back and don't really notice it any more. I am just as much in control in reality......just my two bits' worth.
Mermaid said:
Can look good.
Interesting to see if OPC's mark down the car when trading in.
I hear that lime gold is popular here. Pic quality or not, does not do it for me. Evidently I have bad taste since everyone else loves it. I have now seen it in all light conditions, and still leaves me cold. To me, the car looks better in white.Interesting to see if OPC's mark down the car when trading in.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Its at the low speeds that the difference is notable. I think the issue is true for a lot of new cars....certainly the current M generation of BMWs is very different from what I drove 20 years ago for example. There will always be a market for sharper edged cars,but I suspect that its a lot smaller than one for cars that are more approachable. In any case,this car is very quick and has superb cornering and braking. If you look at track times its very impressive. Every day I drive it, I like it more.
Its a car that takes a bit of time to really get for a performance driver who judges cars by track performance ,but not for normal people
Something like an RS rattles at idle,is noisy and a bit odd for people who have never been in one. I have neighbours who think the car is madness (not envy at all, just incomprehension). With the 991,the same people love it.
Its just impossible to get the balance perfect,I fear. Howevern this is the first of its generation,not the last. You may recall that the first 996s were not greeted with open arms by 993 drivers
ROK said:
The water-cooled 911s will NEVER be appreciated in the same vein as the air-cooled 911s with one of the biggest reasons being they simply made MANY, MANY, MANY more.
The only exceptions are the Mezger powered models. In particular, the GTX series.
I agree with that. I would think that the 996RS and the 997 4.0 would win in the rarity stakes. The only exceptions are the Mezger powered models. In particular, the GTX series.
nsm3 said:
Tony 1234 said:
Manks said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Have you driven a 991?I agree the 991 looks better (in side profile at least), but not having driven one I am assuming it will be better?
I like it a lot while recognizing that is is a rethink of the handling characteristics of the 911 rather than a linear improvement. People who had never driven a 911 before would love it I think. However,we often work to get good at driving a certain platform like the 996/997 and just as we have it mastered, something completely different shows up its a challenge to reset.
There are very valid viewpoints on the 991 with different conclusions. This thread is just one person's view, and my biases are no better or well reasoned than those of others
Lordglenmorangie said:
I see that Lewis Hamilton has insisted his new road car has a manual gear box 
Like Lewiis, I am a driving God and date a Pussycat Doll.....or.umm..maybe not.I enjoy manual boxes and cannot conceive of a time when I have no manual car, but I am used to paddle shifts also and objectively know that the best ones do a better job of perfect shifting than I do. The experience of a manual is one of personal satisfaction at my level of talent, with the full realization that there is no practical result. Doe that reason alone we will see the gradual phasing out of the manual. How many Astons are manual? - few. Zondas? None.. . I was delighted at the time that the 997 RS had no option but manual,but I had the strongest feeling that I was buying into the end of an era. Even though manuals will continue to be available, My bet is that they are toast in five years for performance cars.
I think that super skilled competitive drivers can co things with cars that mortals such as I am can only marvel it. I have driven lots of tracks, including 150 or so Ring laps, but would rate myself as fairly average within the performance car driving community. Bell curves are like that, and if you are in all honesty like me, or are young and starting your driving experience, I am not so sure how many will stick with the stick........
SFO said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
+1. I will keep my GT3s permanently so will enjoy them indefinitely. I grew up driving standard and take your point. My personal take on a good paddle shift is a little more positive,maybe becuase I have been driving the M6 for six years. I would like to try the 458 though,heard that the Ferrari implementation of the shift is about the best....
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