Login | Register
SearchMy Stuff
My ProfileMy PreferencesMy Mates RSS Feed
1 2 ... 10 11
13
Reply to Topic
Author Discussion

RDMcG

Original Poster:

8,860 posts

94 months

[news] 
Wednesday 9th May 2012 quote quote all
cardigankid said:
It has been a useful and in depth thread.

Certainly, why should Porsche soldier on with a basically flawed chassis when it has to compete with cars like the Audi R8, Nissan GTR and others where outright performance is the goal and no limitations are acceptable. Porsche should be among the fastest if not the fastest, and arguably needs to be to survive. It looks as if the 991 will achieve that.

From another perspective, Porsche has form here. The 1978 928 was a move away from a sports car to a GT where performance, arguably, was less important. It followed the departure of the E-Type and arrival of the XJ-S pursuing exactly the same market. Neither was as successful as it was hoped to have been, but maybe they were just ahead of their time.

What they have now produced is a car which does both. It is both an outstandingly capable GT and, if you push the correct buttons, have the desire and the necessary talent, potentially the fastest thing round the Nurburgring on four roadgoing wheels. Also it still looks like a 911.

It would be surprising, however, if a large number of us did not regret the passing of one of the most characterful and instantly exciting driver's cars in history, while at the same time worrying a little about the extent to which performance and handling is now a matter of electronic management.

Absolutely on the money.

Tony 1234

1,693 posts

114 months

[news] 
Wednesday 9th May 2012 quote quote all
Some good civil discussion on this thread, what we all have in common is we love 911's

betternotbigger

1,007 posts

62 months

[news] 
Wednesday 9th May 2012 quote quote all
Tony 1234 said:
Some good civil discussion on this thread, what we all have in common is we love 911's
Amen to that smile

MadMark911

1,567 posts

36 months

[news] 
Wednesday 9th May 2012 quote quote all
Manks said:
betternotbigger said:
....the more experienced 911 owners here (and I don't particularly count myself amongst them after a mere 5 years in Pork) derive a great deal of their satisfaction with the car from the effort made to overcome these challenges and unlock the unique magic of the 911.
That's a bit like only dating ugly women for the challenge of maintaining an erection and getting to like them for their personality.
You sound as though you speak from experience? redface

Manks

7,811 posts

109 months

[news] 
Wednesday 9th May 2012 quote quote all
Tony 1234 said:
Some good civil discussion on this thread, what we all have in common is we love 911's
Love's too strong a word for it, but I do like 'em.

Weaving through traffic today in the white 997 C4S I found myself behind another one in red. It did look good. I must say the C4S is a pretty car and of all the 997s gives the 991 the closest run for its money in the looks stakes.
Advertisement

J-P

2,861 posts

93 months

[news] 
Wednesday 9th May 2012 quote quote all
cardigankid said:
It has been a useful and in depth thread.

Certainly, why should Porsche soldier on with a basically flawed chassis when it has to compete with cars like the Audi R8, Nissan GTR and others where outright performance is the goal and no limitations are acceptable. Porsche should be among the fastest if not the fastest, and arguably needs to be to survive. It looks as if the 991 will achieve that.

From another perspective, Porsche has form here. The 1978 928 was a move away from a sports car to a GT where performance, arguably, was less important. It followed the departure of the E-Type and arrival of the XJ-S pursuing exactly the same market. Neither was as successful as it was hoped to have been, but maybe they were just ahead of their time.

What they have now produced is a car which does both. It is both an outstandingly capable GT and, if you push the correct buttons, have the desire and the necessary talent, potentially the fastest thing round the Nurburgring on four roadgoing wheels. Also it still looks like a 911.

It would be surprising, however, if a large number of us did not regret the passing of one of the most characterful and instantly exciting driver's cars in history, while at the same time worrying a little about the extent to which performance and handling is now a matter of electronic management.
Great post! Totally agree yes

On a different note, the GTR is a fantastic car but IMHO is not everyday useable, it's far too firm for crap UK roads at anything less than about 50mph (after which it's fine). And in my view a car that can't be enjoyed when driving slowly can't be used as a DD.

R8 only has two seats, so not an option for anybody who actually uses the rear seats in a 911 for carrying kids, although if you only need 2 seats then yes, it's a great option as a DD.

betternotbigger

1,007 posts

62 months

[news] 
Wednesday 9th May 2012 quote quote all
J-P said:
Great post! Totally agree yes

On a different note, the GTR is a fantastic car but IMHO is not everyday useable, it's far too firm for crap UK roads at anything less than about 50mph (after which it's fine). And in my view a car that can't be enjoyed when driving slowly can't be used as a DD.

R8 only has two seats, so not an option for anybody who actually uses the rear seats in a 911 for carrying kids, although if you only need 2 seats then yes, it's a great option as a DD.
I love the look of the GTR from all angles except head-on and if it weren't so damned HEAVY (and too firmly sprung) I'd be in there for my next purchase.

J-P

2,861 posts

93 months

[news] 
Wednesday 9th May 2012 quote quote all
betternotbigger said:
I love the look of the GTR from all angles except head-on and if it weren't so damned HEAVY (and too firmly sprung) I'd be in there for my next purchase.
Exactly - can you imagine how much wear there would be on that beast after a day of track abuse? doesn't bear thinking about! I did consider one but post test thoughts were great, great car but naff ownership proposition for me - I'm not up for losing my licence!

highway

639 posts

147 months

[news] 
Wednesday 9th May 2012 quote quote all
Returned the 991 earlier. Back in my 993. Feels like my fling with the gorgeous granddaughter is over and now I'm back in the saddle with a glamorous grandma. Over 500 miles and PDK makes more sense. When you are in traffic the auto mode is gold. Being critical of a car because of its epic talent, calling it remote or detached seems churlish. Turning the pace up, the sound Porsche have got out of this car is amazing without PSE. Sounds great on start up as well.

Those who own these are fortunate indeed.

gred

54 posts

56 months

[news] 
Wednesday 9th May 2012 quote quote all
Having come late to the thread, one of things runnning through is the comparison of the 991 C2S with GTS4, Torbos, GT3s and RS versions of the 997. All fair enough and obviously there are lovers of the 997 C2S Gen 1 and 2 in there as well.

As our OP has said, the basis for the next generation of Turbo and GTs will be this platform and expectations will run high. (and thanks for taking the time and trouble to post your experiences).

My point is to go back to what this car is - the new generation of C2S (and C2).

I've been fortunate enough to have started my 911 ownership with a new 964 back in 1990, followed by a 993, 996, 997.1 and 997.2pdk. All 2 wheel drive and NA. And now a 991 C2Spdk. I've been thinking about each time I've had the new car and my initial reaction then, and after a few years of ownership. And the answer is that each car was a significant step better than the last and in no way do I look back and think, I wish I'd stayed with that particular iteration. All had their faults and foibles, all were exemplary in their performance and reliability and I found all of them were more than quick enough for me on the public road.

After a couple of month's ownership of the 991 I am now more attuned to the car and becoming used to the foibles (stop/start, handbrake, trim reflections, seatbelt position) and more appreciative of the advances (pdk, sports exhaust,brakes, reduced tyre roar, and the improvement the increased front track makes to the handling).

To me it's a definite step forward, terrific fun on challenging roads,but more of an express on motorways and a PIAS in queuing traffic if you leave the stop start on.

If you don't think it's a more involved, grittier car than a GT3, you're right, but the 991 GT3 probably will be. Nor is it as fast and planted as a TT, same applies. What it is, is another clever clean sheet redrafting of the 911 concept, without losing the 911 core values.

Oh, and fwiw the steering is just fine, different, but fine.

Blue62

1,883 posts

39 months

[news] 
Thursday 10th May 2012 quote quote all
Good thread with respect on both sides of the argument. I am close to swapping into a 991s from a GTS and it has genuinely helped me to think through my reasons, which when it comes to cars are largely emotional. From my own experience of driving both cars, there is much to reflect on in here and I am generally in agreement with the thrust of the argument, the GTS is more focussed and the 991 more accomplished, take your pick.

RDMcG

Original Poster:

8,860 posts

94 months

[news] 
Thursday 17th May 2012 quote quote all
Here is a quick article I wrote about it for AutoWeek, the US magazine.....


http://www.autoweek.com/article/20120517/CARREVIEW...

Rollcage

11,311 posts

79 months

[news] 
Thursday 17th May 2012 quote quote all
Nice write up, with some appreciative comments as well!

cardigankid

6,359 posts

99 months

[news] 
Tuesday 18th December 2012 quote quote all
Sorry to drag this up again, but it has just occurred to me why the 991 bonnet is so much higher than the 997. Pedestrian safety legislation.

garyhun

16,528 posts

115 months

[news] 
Tuesday 18th December 2012 quote quote all
cardigankid said:
Sorry to drag this up again, but it has just occurred to me why the 991 bonnet is so much higher than the 997. Pedestrian safety legislation.
I came back to this thread for that? You boring bd wink

Pesty

30,933 posts

143 months

[news] 
Tuesday 18th December 2012 quote quote all
cardigankid said:
Sorry to drag this up again, but it has just occurred to me why the 991 bonnet is so much higher than the 997. Pedestrian safety legislation.
I thought that was about the gap between the engine and bonnet. Hence the GTR's extending struts

PGM

1,838 posts

136 months

[news] 
Tuesday 18th December 2012 quote quote all
cardigankid said:
Sorry to drag this up again, but it has just occurred to me why the 991 bonnet is so much higher than the 997. Pedestrian safety legislation.
You had a good long think before rushing into a reply there biggrin

Lagerlout

1,188 posts

123 months

[news] 
Wednesday 19th December 2012 quote quote all
I've been driving the Wife's a couple of times recently, and apart from some annoying squeaks with the roof up I have to say the car is bloody brilliant. Obviously can't push it at the moment, but it's dual character is really useful. It also sounds sooo good compared to the Mk2 997. Up the rev range it sounds fan-tastic. This is with standard exhausts. I used to really like the noise of the pre-DFI unit in the Mk1 (kind of supersonic sound) but the Mk2 seemed to get a bit buzzy to me. Anyway, I'm still a big fan after a month or so of ownership and I expect when the summer arrives again will become an even bigger fan.

BnB

1,007 posts

62 months

[news] 
Wednesday 19th December 2012 quote quote all
Lagerlout said:
I've been driving the Wife's a couple of times recently, and apart from some annoying squeaks with the roof up I have to say the car is bloody brilliant. Obviously can't push it at the moment, but it's dual character is really useful. It also sounds sooo good compared to the Mk2 997. Up the rev range it sounds fan-tastic. This is with standard exhausts. I used to really like the noise of the pre-DFI unit in the Mk1 (kind of supersonic sound) but the Mk2 seemed to get a bit buzzy to me. Anyway, I'm still a big fan after a month or so of ownership and I expect when the summer arrives again will become an even bigger fan.
My cab is 6,000 miles in and we've bonded beautifully. I took a little while to become convinced by its driving character (as opposed to looks and features). Now I can hardly imagine anything better.

Old Trout

1,582 posts

62 months

[news] 
Wednesday 19th December 2012 quote quote all
I have just read this thread from front to back for the first time. First of all praise to Ronan for taking the time to share, excellent write up. The comments I love most are those condemning the 991 even before they have driven it - don't let the facts get in the way of a good story don't you!


Over the past year I have been driving the 997.2 RS, a month in a GTS4 and then a 991S (and before that a 996 GT3 and a 993 C2) so feel reasonably well positioned to compare the 991.

When I first drove the 991S it was straight from the RS and it was a little disappointing. The key thing for me is that in PDK Sport mode I had to work too hard to get the car between corners and the chassis did not quite as well resolved.

I then had the GTS4 for a month and whilst initially liking it, liked it less and less as time went by. I felt it was harsh where the RS would be firm, it lacked feel unless really pushed on. Having said that, when pushed on it surprised me with it's pace. Over I struggled to see the value in the GTS - just too expensive for what it offered me.

Getting into the 991S from the GTS was a revelation. The 991 feels so much better resolved, so much more modern. One of the comments I see being thrown at the 991 is that you really need to drive it hard to bring it to life. I think this is to misunderstand it's character. There is no doubt that the 991 has this dual ability to cruise like a limo and then be like an insane banshee.

The difference, to me, is not about outright speed and how much you push on, but how it is driven. Saunter in cruise mode and that is how it responds, drive it, even at relatively low speeds and it is much more alive. Not alive like a 6GT3, but there again to my mind, no other 911 is, and that is not the design brief of the Carrera S.

The car is modern, contemporary and certainly competes with any car at it's price level in terms of toys and quality. The button array is a little fiddly but easy to learn.

The most telling thing is that whilst it lacks that extra 10% you get from the RS, I am driving it so much more than any other 911 I have owned. Driven briskly across country the chassis is truly incredible, although like Ronan, the rear end of the RS was easier to move around, I need to unlock this feature on the 991 wink

So ultimately I liked the RS more, but I like the 991s more of the time. It combines multiple facets of motoring excellence into a single car - a remarkable achievement.

I cannot wait to get it on track - I am confident that its performance will be more accessible, more of the time and so will be quicker - I await to see how rewarding it is, based on my experience so far I struggle to see it will not be.

There are those in this thread who fancy themselves as Steve Rance or Chris Harris that will bemoan this newly accessible performance - but I think this is delusional. You only need to look at the stock of beloved 993 to realise that nuggets who can't drive are not new to the 991, they turned up on droves and specced the truly appalling Tiptronic 993. An anathema to driving enjoyment and involvement if ever there was one.

Yes the PDK is phenomenal, yes I miss heel and toe. Swings and roundabouts.

The only thing I really wonder about the car is the great noise, the crackles and burbles on overrun - sounds great but synthetic surely? Like having a flamer kit on my Sierra Cosworth!


1 2 ... 10 11
13
Reply to Topic