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Pesty
25,888 posts
125 months
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Nice 
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drpep
1,054 posts
37 months
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RDMcG said: ...  So far, it bears not the slightest resemblance to my RS, but its an impressive car in its own right..... And that is what worries me, though as before, I will reserve final judgement for the GT3/RS versions if/when they arrive. My late 997 C2S was very much in the spirit of the GT3 which followed it. The C2S is a focused, driver oriented, traditionally compromised sports car; and that works for me. Personally I think it's a true credit to Porsche engineering that the 991 can do the 5 Series cosseting thing and also bear a genuinely sporting side. Personally however, that simply dilutes what would otherwise be a very very exciting car. As such, for now, "I'm ooot".
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cmoose
18,656 posts
98 months
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Agreed. I understand why they've done it. But I don't want a 911 to feel like a luxury car. I expressly want it to feel different from a luxury car. At all times. Things like great steering feel and feedback through the chassis can be enjoyed at all times, even when pottering in town. I wouldn't want to have to be pants-on-fire to know I'm driving something feelsome and honed.
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RDMcG
Original Poster
7,052 posts
76 months
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drpep said: And that is what worries me, though as before, I will reserve final judgement for the GT3/RS versions if/when they arrive. My late 997 C2S was very much in the spirit of the GT3 which followed it. The C2S is a focused, driver oriented, traditionally compromised sports car; and that works for me. Personally I think it's a true credit to Porsche engineering that the 991 can do the 5 Series cosseting thing and also bear a genuinely sporting side. Personally however, that simply dilutes what would otherwise be a very very exciting car. As such, for now, "I'm ooot". Its an interesting question. I went into this fairly prejudiced about the 991. At this stage it has grown on me. not as a GT3 replacement, but as a versatile, practical car that can be dialled in to produce superb performance when you want, but that can morph back into a refined car as required. If you asked me which car I would track, it would be the RS. On the other hand, if you asked me which car would I want to to take me for a week's holiday with my wife, the 991 would win easily. I sometimes find that reviews pile onto a specific item and it seems as if its much worse than it is is reality. For example BMW's iDrive was blasted to hell, and in fact it took me 15t minutes to learn it. Equally I think the steering issue is worth discussing, but after a couple of days, I do not find myself thinking about it. RS steering is hyper communicative, and as such perfect for track, but I don't need to be engaged at that level with the car every second. There will obviously be edgy version later, and the extra width on the front among other things should produce some formidable performers. Its very valid for those who want the really edgy cars to be a tad wary, but I am looking forward to see what they do with the 991 as it develops. As it it, it will have a much broader appeal to buyers who would not normally consider the 911, while still retaining the sportiness for those who want to use it. My prediction is that 95% of buyers will go PDK. Like Ferrari fans who bemoaned the passing of the open gate gearbox, the M fans who miss the manual on the M6, there is a wind of change blowing. I am not sure how the RS/Turbo etc will be specced, but I think the number of people who actually buy manual cars is declining very quickly. I will keep my current manual cars indefinitely, but I have had an SMG M6 for years, and have no doubt that my next Porsche will be PDK whenever that is. The thing I do not understand is launch control. I have it on the M6 and have never used it. Nor would I on a Porsche. Its just an unnatural act for me, as I do not start from a grid position in the morning  . Running the 991 hard is still very,very satisfying, and certainly a comparison with a GT3 is taking the base car of the new generation with the least civilized version of the last. ( Most people I know outside the car community have absolutely no desire to own a GT3. Its just too noisy,harsh and generally aggressive. For people who have always tracked cars it may be a bit tame, but we are talking a tiny majority of the car buying population). Your point is completely valid, which is why I find this week so interesting. I can't help it though....the car is growing on me 
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JW911
724 posts
64 months
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Interesting reading. I have yet to drive a 991 but I have sat in one and as a 996 Turbo owner, the 991 just seems too damned big.  Ok, the little tank maybe taking things a bit too far but one of the reasons I like 911s is the fact that they are that little bit smaller (and hence more practically useable) than the competition.
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RDMcG
Original Poster
7,052 posts
76 months
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JW911 said: Interesting reading. I have yet to drive a 991 but I have sat in one and as a 996 Turbo owner, the 991 just seems too damned big.  Ok, the little tank maybe taking things a bit too far but one of the reasons I like 911s is the fact that they are that little bit smaller (and hence more practically useable) than the competition. The much steeper rake of the windscreen puts a lot of space in front of you, so it does seem big initially. My experience was that I got used to it quickly. The steering and cornering are so different that its a whole new ballgame. I think there will be those who will legitimately not get it, but others who will love it. It feels like the air-cooled period again when there were very good arguments about the 993-996 transition. One interesting question for me is how they will build the track-only versions. The road car is perfectly balanced visually with the 20" wheels which fill the arches very nicely. However, if regs require 18s I wonder how it will look.
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RDMcG
Original Poster
7,052 posts
76 months
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A few more impressions. Took a few backroads I know, dry conditions, and put the full Sport + mode on, PDK only. It is quite transformative. Cornering is much more like a good mid-engined car than a 911, and it is very good. My RS might make it a the same speed, but the difference is that it would take a lot more skill to do it. The dual personality of the car is impressive. I think that Porsche managed to almost defeat the laws of physics with my own car, but on the 991 they simply used them. Its pretty easy to get the tail out my car, very difficult on the 991. I will post some more pics and thoughts in the next few days, and also take a couple of the same drives in my own car to be able to get an immediate contrast.
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PorkaFly
204 posts
32 months
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RDMcG said: A few more impressions. Took a few backroads I know, dry conditions, and put the full Sport + mode on, PDK only. It is quite transformative. Cornering is much more like a good mid-engined car than a 911, and it is very good. My RS might make it a the same speed, but the difference is that it would take a lot more skill to do it. The dual personality of the car is impressive. I think that Porsche managed to almost defeat the laws of physics with my own car, but on the 991 they simply used them. Its pretty easy to get the tail out my car, very difficult on the 991. I will post some more pics and thoughts in the next few days, and also take a couple of the same drives in my own car to be able to get an immediate contrast. RD - I'm really enjoying this....thank you. Keep it coming! PF
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Tony 1234
1,475 posts
96 months
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RDMcG said: A few more impressions. Took a few backroads I know, dry conditions, and put the full Sport + mode on, PDK only. It is quite transformative. Cornering is much more like a good mid-engined car than a 911, and it is very good. My RS might make it a the same speed, but the difference is that it would take a lot more skill to do it. The dual personality of the car is impressive. I think that Porsche managed to almost defeat the laws of physics with my own car, but on the 991 they simply used them. Its pretty easy to get the tail out my car, very difficult on the 991. I will post some more pics and thoughts in the next few days, and also take a couple of the same drives in my own car to be able to get an immediate contrast. This is what us 991S owners already know 
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RDMcG
Original Poster
7,052 posts
76 months
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Now., some detail shots. The interior is really very well executed and feels like a quality product, apart from my previous comments about the cheap feel of the door of the upholders, as with previous cars. My single real irritation is the reflectiveness of the dash top on the windscreen...I hope they build the 991RS with a zeoo-reflective dash as the leather has a sheen in bright sunlight. The contrast with an RS is of course, extreme, where Porsche tried to reduce the RS to the simplicity of a monk's cell ,whereas the and to bring the 991 has a feel of being very current. One caveat for me is that the electronics will become obsolete as they have with every car I have owned since about 1998, but for now, they are great. Seat controls are infinite with nice switch gear -seats very comfortable for long distance with adjustable side bolsters.  Dash display is very crisp, especially the electronic displays   Centre console is well organized and intuitive, though If you smoke in your car ( I never do) the ashtray is so far back on the console that you need very short arms.   Door handles quite elegant  I love the thick steering wheel, and ordered it as an option when I bought my RS.2  My RS interior  Interior is overall a delightful place to be:  My RS interior 
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RDMcG
Original Poster
7,052 posts
76 months
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Exterior I think the side profile is superb, nicest ever  Headlights look a bit pop eyed to me:  Rear end has come in for a bit of criticism. My sense is that if the tail lights were a bit bigger this might improve  New LEDs replace the old dots and look good 
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RDMcG
Original Poster
7,052 posts
76 months
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and then of course it the sense that its too big. I am getting used to it very quickly and it does not feel big, though the RS does feel small  ..this is not a new thing and occurs every generation...   On the other hand, my RS.1 compared to prior generations...well....was not small:   However, its fairly light and I do not feel the car as being big when I throw it around, unlike the impression when I enter it.
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steve singh
2,389 posts
42 months
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PorkaFly said: RDMcG said: A few more impressions. Took a few backroads I know, dry conditions, and put the full Sport + mode on, PDK only. It is quite transformative. Cornering is much more like a good mid-engined car than a 911, and it is very good. My RS might make it a the same speed, but the difference is that it would take a lot more skill to do it. The dual personality of the car is impressive. I think that Porsche managed to almost defeat the laws of physics with my own car, but on the 991 they simply used them. Its pretty easy to get the tail out my car, very difficult on the 991. I will post some more pics and thoughts in the next few days, and also take a couple of the same drives in my own car to be able to get an immediate contrast. RD - I'm really enjoying this....thank you. Keep it coming! PF +1
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cmoose
18,656 posts
98 months
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RDMcG said: I am getting used to it very quickly and it does not feel big, though the RS does feel small  That's the thing - the one criticism (for my own preference) of the 997 RSs I've driven is that they felt too big. Cayman's size and cabin feel is more to my liking. The market seems to favour sports cars with ever bigger, airier cabins. But I want to feel cacooned, part of the machine. That's one of the great things about some classic cars. Often hard to get in and out, but boy do you feel part of the machine...
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RDMcG
Original Poster
7,052 posts
76 months
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cmoose said: That's the thing - the one criticism (for my own preference) of the 997 RSs I've driven is that they felt too big. Cayman's size and cabin feel is more to my liking. The market seems to favour sports cars with ever bigger, airier cabins. But I want to feel cacooned, part of the machine.
That's one of the great things about some classic cars. Often hard to get in and out, but boy do you feel part of the machine... Absolutely understand that, and the Cayman ( especially the R) is a great sports car. I have no real insight into Porsche's thinking but my guess is that the demographic for the Caymans skews to either track people or a younger buyer. However, moving the engine forward and widening the front of the 991 have created a platform with a lot of opportunity. Compared to the ratty 911S I drove many years ago everything feels big. I think its key to know why you are buying a car, and we are all different. I find the 997 fine, and obviously small compared to my more road focused cars like the M6, so I may be the wrong person to make that call  . Seriously though, there is no right answer here. I am going to keep my RS.1 and 2 pretty much infinitely and they represent for me the ultimate development of the primarily mechanical,high-revving, manual shift-only era of Porsche for road use. The 991 is so different that I do not regard it as a successor to the 997 in a linear fashion any more than the E type Jag was a logical development of the XK150. However,car companies are in business to make money, and for Porsche the 991 is threading the needle...too far to the traditionalists will not expand the appeal and too far to luxury will dilute the brand. My guess is that 95% of the people who buy a 991 have never even sat in.let alone driven a 911S........
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RDMcG
Original Poster
7,052 posts
76 months
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Angle of windscreen differences very obvious here:  
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Tony 1234
1,475 posts
96 months
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RDMcG said: My single real irritation is the reflectiveness of the dash top on the windscreen... The owners on this side of the pond know that sunglasses stop 95% of the reflection 
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RDMcG
Original Poster
7,052 posts
76 months
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Tony 1234 said: The owners on this side of the pond know that sunglasses stop 95% of the reflection  Not quite..I tried that too. Reduces but not eliminates. However,I suppose I can try more sunglasses!....
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Tony 1234
1,475 posts
96 months
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RDMcG said: Tony 1234 said: The owners on this side of the pond know that sunglasses stop 95% of the reflection  Not quite..I tried that too. Reduces but not eliminates. However,I suppose I can try more sunglasses!.... For me a prescription lens in Maui-Jim glasses circa £480-£500 does the job just fine.
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RDMcG
Original Poster
7,052 posts
76 months
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Tony 1234 said: For me a prescription lens in Maui-Jim glasses circa £480-£500 does the job just fine. I have a pair somewhere. WIll try. Its not a huge deal, but its the first Porsche where I have noticed this, and I do not wear sunglasses all the time. I have racked up about 1500km n the last five days is all sort of light conditions, so I do notice this.
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