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betternotbigger
994 posts
44 months
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Manks said: Betternotbigger, I've sent you an email. Not sure whether you receive correspondence from other PHers, if not perhaps you'd be kind enough to drop me a mail. I have a question for you. Reply sent
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DSM2
3,624 posts
69 months
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betternotbigger said: Suits me just fine if there are fewer 991s about. Better for residuals in 2 years time. Mine is due to be built this month. And I'm delighted if it's the only one.
That just ain't going to happen is it? The demand isn't there for the 991 at its price level and will only be there when deals are available or there is a lot more easy money around ( unlikely in the foreseeable) which will hit the residuals like anything else. There'll never be a premium because of rarity because P can build far more than they can sell.
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J-P
2,487 posts
75 months
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betternotbigger said: You obviously don't get the cooking 911 then. It's the everyday sports car for those who don't want multiple cars. I use mine for work, holidays, the school run: pretty much every purpose every day. And it's still a great steer. Exactly - it's an all-purpose car and an excellent one at that!
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betternotbigger
994 posts
44 months
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DSM2 said: That just ain't going to happen is it? The demand isn't there for the 991 at its price level and will only be there when deals are available or there is a lot more easy money around ( unlikely in the foreseeable) which will hit the residuals like anything else.
There'll never be a premium because of rarity because P can build far more than they can sell. Porsche build new cars. They don't build 2 year old 991s like the one I'll be selling in 2014. And they ain't selling many new ones today (RHD anyway) so they ain't building many.
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FisiP1
1,135 posts
22 months
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Tony 1234 said: Manks said: FisiP1 said: The Boxster is looking so good these days, and has seen minimal price inflation, and gets the same interior upgrades.
I like my 991, but I don't love it by any means. There is just something about it that I can't quite put my finger on, its just not quite as purposeful as my Cayman, and not quite as comfortable or practical as any number of other things. It feels big on the road as well to me. The styling works well in isolation(although the front is a retrograde step vs the 997 IMHO) but I don't think it can compare to the Boxster in all honesty. I can definitely see a 981 or new Cayman order coming on if they drive as well as I'm hoping they do. Should have bought the "S" maybe. +1, the 'S' is like a wild animal when you want it to be and a pussycat when you don't, what could be better than that?  Also, I'd guess the decision to buy a boxter etc over a 991 is a financial one. I don't see what the 'S' would give over the 3.4 to be totally honest, I would never drive faster on my local roads that I already can in the 3.4(and again no faster than my 2.7 Cayman). Having owned a car with 1100hp, nothing sells itself based on its straight-line speed to me anymore, if I cared about traffic lights GP I would still own it. I now live in the depths of the twisties in Wales(check out the Cwmystwyth - Rhayader route - That is my commute), and the reality is that the 991 just doesn't feel as sharp or adept as the old Cayman on roads like these, power isn't going to change that. Fortunately I have the option to move the 991 on locally at break even, just waiting on the official info on the new Cayman to decide which path to take.
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Carl_Docklands
2,038 posts
131 months
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Loaded 991 Price: £105k
Cost of credit from Porsche: £125k
3Year Residual from Porsche: £45k.
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betternotbigger
994 posts
44 months
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FisiP1 said: I don't see what the 'S' would give over the 3.4 to be totally honest, I would never drive faster on my local roads that I already can in the 3.4(and again no faster than my 2.7 Cayman). Having owned a car with 1100hp, nothing sells itself based on its straight-line speed to me anymore, if I cared about traffic lights GP I would still own it.
I now live in the depths of the twisties in Wales(check out the Cwmystwyth - Rhayader route - That is my commute), and the reality is that the 991 just doesn't feel as sharp or adept as the old Cayman on roads like these, power isn't going to change that.
Fortunately I have the option to move the 991 on locally at break even, just waiting on the official info on the new Cayman to decide which path to take. The Cayman will always be a wonderful steer on roads like those. You lucky chap. So get one. But the S with its low down grunt and and anti-understeering PTV is for me a happy choice. It's easier to enjoy at 3-7 tenths than the non S 991. And more practical for my needs than the Cayman, great car though that is.
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ras62
262 posts
25 months
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Carl_Docklands said: Loaded 991 Price: £105k
Cost of credit from Porsche: £125k
3Year Residual from Porsche: £45k. Are these figures correct? 80k cost over 3 years  No wonder they are not shifting.
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Phooey
6,102 posts
38 months
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Firstly, there's absolutely nothing wrong with the 991. If anyone can show me a better all-rounder - taking into account running costs, residuals, performance, brand kudos etc etc for £90k... Secondly, RECESSION RECESSION RECESSION. I think a lot of whats talked about the 991 being too expensive is b  ks and the excuse many people use for not buying one? Compared to the 997.2 spec for spec, is the 991 really overpriced? No. If the 991 was £10k cheaper would it then be flying off the shelves? No. There are deals / incentives to be had - although not on the same scale as the GTS or 997.2 (£10k+) for example.
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Blue62
1,394 posts
21 months
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It seems on here that too many threads about the 991 descend into farce. I now own a 991, I've previously owned a 993, two 996's and two 997's and without a shadow of doubt the latest car is the best iteration of the 911 that i've driven, a sports car for all occasions. The market for any car nudging or past 100k is tough at the moment, I do not believe that slow sales in any way reflect on the car or its price, go make an enquiry on an R8 and see what happens. When a new 911 comes out there are always a few speculators in the market hoping to see a premium for early cars, that's not happening in the current climate and may explain some of the cancelled orders.
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Carl_Docklands
2,038 posts
131 months
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Blue62 said: It seems on here that too many threads about the 991 descend into farce. I now own a 991, I've previously owned a 993, two 996's and two 997's and without a shadow of doubt the latest car is the best iteration of the 911 that i've driven, a sports car for all occasions. The market for any car nudging or past 100k is tough at the moment, I do not believe that slow sales in any way reflect on the car or its price, go make an enquiry on an R8 and see what happens. When a new 911 comes out there are always a few speculators in the market hoping to see a premium for early cars, that's not happening in the current climate and may explain some of the cancelled orders. True, it is easy to spec an R8 to £125k. Price wise, the main competition is the GT-R.
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Ady128
280 posts
12 months
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I've wanted a 911 for about 30 years. Currently in a 987 Boxster 2.9 PDK. The money was either going to sit in the bank earning a measly 2 and 1/2 % or going to Mr.Porsche. My 991 Cab is on it's way to Sheerness and should be with me in a week or so. I think every Porsche is fantastic, so buy what you can afford and enjoy; we're only here once! Happy days.
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betternotbigger
994 posts
44 months
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Ady128 said: I've wanted a 911 for about 30 years. Currently in a 987 Boxster 2.9 PDK. The money was either going to sit in the bank earning a measly 2 and 1/2 % or going to Mr.Porsche. My 991 Cab is on it's way to Sheerness and should be with me in a week or so. I think every Porsche is fantastic, so buy what you can afford and enjoy; we're only here once! Happy days. Good on you. Hope the cab fulfils your dreams. Don't forget to post pics on here when it arrives.
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faster_stueys
66 posts
50 months
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Miopyk said: I had a 991 on loan for 2 days when my Boxster was in for service etc and I drove a 981 Boxster S last week and I don't think there was a lot between them. Both had PDK, were fairly well loaded and both handled very well.
If I was in the market for a new fun sports car for under £100k the first question I'd be asking would be is the 991 worth circa £30-40k more than the 981. If money is no object and you want the perceived status the 991 has then yes. If all you want is the best driving experience money can buy at this level the answer has to be no.
The 981 gives you 95% of what the 991 offers for substantially less outlay and I suspect the new Cayman will better that. I don't think this comes down to what people can afford it's more about value for money and in this respect the new Boxster wins hands down.
Miopyk This. I'm sure the 991 is a great car but the premium is too big now IMHO
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Blue62
1,394 posts
21 months
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Carl_Docklands said: True, it is easy to spec an R8 to £125k.
Price wise, the main competition is the GT-R. Indeed, but my general point was about discounted prices in the face of a recessionary market for all but the most desirable cars, sorry you missed it.
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Robbo66
1,509 posts
102 months
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betternotbigger said: I don't disagree but when was it any different. Certainly not since the 993. And how is the new Cayman more focused than before? No one's even driven one yet. It was more of a sports car already when it came out
A brand new 911 is the businessman's express and most businessmen are holding back on spending. It's the spirit of the times. People are looking for an austerity era downsized purchase and the 981 fits the bill perfectly. Believe me it was. I paid £87k for a brand new 996 turbo..and it was smaller, manual and less of a GT than the 991. The 991 is more DB9 than 911 IMO, and the DB9 set will remain with Aston. I just cannot see where the target Market is at £95k. As regards the Cayman, I agree. It's more of a sports car. I took the 2.7RS up through to Brecon for a historic rally on Saturday. A drive to remember. Again. Tested the 991 a few weeks ago on the same roads, very accomplished...but forgotten already. It's a great GT, a business man's express as you say. But...it's too expensive recession or not, and that's why it's not selling. There are also way, way too man 911's of various derivatives on the market, all helping to stall sales. The 991 is proving a real issue for Porsche in Europe, and I agree with a previous poster regarding their efforts now being put into the Cayenne and Cayman.
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DSM2
3,624 posts
69 months
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betternotbigger said: DSM2 said: That just ain't going to happen is it? The demand isn't there for the 991 at its price level and will only be there when deals are available or there is a lot more easy money around ( unlikely in the foreseeable) which will hit the residuals like anything else.
There'll never be a premium because of rarity because P can build far more than they can sell. Porsche build new cars. They don't build 2 year old 991s like the one I'll be selling in 2014. And they ain't selling many new ones today (RHD anyway) so they ain't building many. I have to assume that your being deliberately obtuse, no one could seriously be that dumb. Oh well, dream on.
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Blue62
1,394 posts
21 months
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Robbo66 said: Believe me it was. I paid £87k for a brand new 996 turbo..and it was smaller, manual and less of a GT than the 991. The 991 is more DB9 than 911 IMO, and the DB9 set will remain with Aston. I just cannot see where the target Market is at £95k.
As regards the Cayman, I agree. It's more of a sports car.
I took the 2.7RS up through to Brecon for a historic rally on Saturday. A drive to remember. Again.
Tested the 991 a few weeks ago on the same roads, very accomplished...but forgotten already.
It's a great GT, a business man's express as you say. But...it's too expensive recession or not, and that's why it's not selling.
There are also way, way too man 911's of various derivatives on the market, all helping to stall sales. The 991 is proving a real issue for Porsche in Europe, and I agree with a previous poster regarding their efforts now being put into the Cayenne and Cayman. Nothing is selling in any numbers at the top end unless it's in the 'ultra' sector. To compare it to a DB9 is a strange one, the cars are miles apart in every sense, most markedly running costs and incessant breakdowns (I have been there), quite apart from the experience at the wheel.
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cmoose
18,582 posts
98 months
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Surprised by view the 991 can't be worth £72k base. 996 was roughly £60k base in 1998, which is over £85k in 2011 £s. In historical terms, the 991 is still cheap. And I can't think of anything that clearly beats the 991 as an overall proposition for similar money.
The only problem for the 991 is the 981. It's basically the same car for tons less cash, especially if you're comparing 3.4 to 3.4. The difference in dynamics is probably less than ever, with the 911ness being engineered out, generation by generation.
If I was in the market, I'd probably buy a Gen 2 987 Cayman. If it was 911ness I wanted, I'd go for one or the previous 911 models. I've driven a 991 and it is a great car, but for whatever reason, the desire doesn't burn.
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shoestring7
4,170 posts
115 months
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Most of you lot must be about 23 years old. The 911 was always expensive and the 'too expensive' argument just doesn't stack up when you look at historical data either.
Here's the list price of (993)911s eighteen years ago:
911 Carrera - Manual - £56,495
911 Carrera - Tip - £59,470
911 Carrera 4 - Manual - £59,845
911 RS - £65,245
911 Turbo - £91,950
Twenty years ago the prices of 1992 964s were
911 C2 Coupe - Manual £48,310
911 C2 Coupe - Tip £50,914
911 C2 Cab Turbo Look - Tip - £70,294
911 C4 Coupe - Manual £55,347
911 C4 Cab - Manual £61,417
911 Turbo 3.3 £75,306
911 Carrera RS - £61,100
And you can add £2181 for aircon to all of those, £800 for an alarm, £995 for metallic paint, and £3084 for leather.
So a 250bhp 964 C4 coupe with air, leather and paint would have been around £62,000.
So it beats me why you lot still think a 385bhp 991 C4S at £81,000 represents some sort of wildly optimistic pricing strategy on Porsche' part. According to the inflation calculator I found the equivalent to the 964's price would be £103,000 today.
SS7
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