will a water cooled 911 ever appreciate ?
Discussion
r4_rick said:
itsybitsy
i see your logic...so you reckon you've got to buy a 3.6/post facelift rather than a 3.4?
I doubt it will make much difference in 10 years time. It will all be about the condition of the individual cars left standing (as with vanilla air-cooled 911s). A mint low mileage 3.4 will be worth more than a ropey 3.6 with a slight premium in favour of the 3.6 for equal condition cars. Much as it stands today in fact. In time most of the cheap sub £10K dogs will be broken/scrapped and there will be a relatively small number of mint low mileage cars which will always retain a reasonable value, probably slowly appreciating in the very long term. As most contemporary 911s are used as daily transport clocking up the miles, there will not be that many genuine low mileage examples knocking around in 10-15 years time. Who knows, maybe even less than there are air-cooled 911s today.i see your logic...so you reckon you've got to buy a 3.6/post facelift rather than a 3.4?
uktrailmonster said:
I doubt it will make much difference in 10 years time. It will all be about the condition of the individual cars left standing (as with vanilla air-cooled 911s). A mint low mileage 3.4 will be worth more than a ropey 3.6 with a slight premium in favour of the 3.6 for equal condition cars. Much as it stands today in fact. In time most of the cheap sub £10K dogs will be broken/scrapped and there will be a relatively small number of mint low mileage cars which will always retain a reasonable value, probably slowly appreciating in the very long term. As most contemporary 911s are used as daily transport clocking up the miles, there will not be that many genuine low mileage examples knocking around in 10-15 years time. Who knows, maybe even less than there are air-cooled 911s today.
exactly what i was trying to get at.the thing with the 993 they were not used so much as todays wc cars they were more of weekend toys only bought by the wealthy as a 2nd or 3rd car hence still a lot under 100k miles whereas the modern 996/7 cars have been bought by people on a modest income and used as daily commuters etc and thus a good low mileage car(996) is hard to come by even now and as time goes on mint low mileage cars will be even harder to find itsybitsy said:
exactly what i was trying to get at.the thing with the 993 they were not used so much as todays wc cars they were more of weekend toys only bought by the wealthy as a 2nd or 3rd car hence still a lot under 100k miles whereas the modern 996/7 cars have been bought by people on a modest income and used as daily commuters etc and thus a good low mileage car(996) is hard to come by even now and as time goes on mint low mileage cars will be even harder to find
Nonesense. gibbon said:
Nonesense.
which part? a 993 costing £80k new in 1994 and bought by the few and wealthy and used only on occasion or a 996 costing £55k new in 2004 bought by the many on more modest incomes and used daily?or finding a good 993 with less than 100k miles is easier than finding a good 996 with less than 50k miles?
gibbon said:
All of it. Utter tosh.
lets put it anotherway in 1994 a 993 was 50% more than a 2 bed flat in an area where i live now that same flat was 2.5 times more than a new 996!so was a 911 more affordable to more people in the early 2000s or more so in rescession hit 1994 hence only the wealthy bought new 993s.yes the 996 sold in great numbers what 2-3x as many 993 but were they not used and abused a lot more on a daily basis.so as i said before i have no vested interest in a 996 but i still believe a good low mileage well cared for example will be as rare as and of the same value a good 993 in 10-15 years time
itsybitsy said:
lets put it anotherway in 1994 a 993 was 50% more than a 2 bed flat in an area where i live now that same flat was 2.5 times more than a new 996!so was a 911 more affordable to more people in the early 2000s or more so in rescession hit 1994 hence only the wealthy bought new 993s.yes the 996 sold in great numbers what 2-3x as many 993 but were they not used and abused a lot more on a daily basis.
Oh do come on, we are now index linking 911 prices and house prices? hahahahahah.No mate, the house was 'cheap', the house is now 'expensive'.
As you all might guess from my acronym, I'm in both camps. The 993RS has certainly been appreciating nicely over the last few years. The GT3 will probably go the same way in the longer term (Mezger engine being the main reason), but if you look at the aircooled cars, it takes 10 -15 years for them to get back above their original sales price. The 996RS looks like it will be there soon, which sort of fits with this time scale.
Edited by 993RSGT3 on Tuesday 16th October 13:53
itsybitsy said:
so as i said before i have no vested interest in a 996 but i still believe a good low mileage well cared for example will be as rare as and of the same value a good 993 in 10-15 years time
I just cannot see that happening. I reckon good 996's may well harden a little but ALL of the aircooled will have gone stratospheric by then.993RSGT3 said:
As you all might guess from my acronym, I'm in both camps. The 993RS has certainly been appreciating nicely over the last few years. The GT3 will probably go the same way in the longer term (Mezger engine being the main reason), but if you look at the aircooled cars, it takes 10 -15 years for them to get back above their original sales price. The 996RS looks like it will be there soon, which sort of fits with this time scale.
]
Nice camp to be in ]
For me, the new bling dash in 991 onwards determines the old school (different levels of course) as we have known it and the new super efficient, comfortable, all conquering GT cars that will never appreciate.
The small run GT3's are a reasonable place to put your money.
993RSGT3 said:
As you all might guess from my acronym, I'm in both camps. The 993RS has certainly been appreciating nicely over the last few years. The GT3 will probably go the same way in the longer term (Mezger engine being the main reason), but if you look at the aircooled cars, it takes 10 -15 years for them to get back above their original sales price. The 996RS looks like it will be there soon, which sort of fits with this time scale.
I am lucky enough to be in the same position with a 993RSR and a 996RS. Two fantastic driver's cars. Interestingly, I find the 996 the more involving of the two. Edited by 993RSGT3 on Tuesday 16th October 13:53
Only 600 6RS's were sold worldwide and of those quite a few are no more which makes it one of the rarest 911's ever built which will obviously have an effect of residuals. I think that the GT3Mk1 will also start to appreciate - again due to numbers and the fact that it was the first of a new breed of GT cars that in most ways were far more extreme than the air cooled RS's that went before them. The 997's although wonderful cars were considerably more sanitised and I think that history may judge them for that although (again due to numbers) the 4.0 will probably be a collectible car providing the 991 isn't a stunner. The absolute bargains to be had are the 996MK2 Gt3's and the 996 GT2's. Both absolutely stunning drivers cars that rely entirely on a beautiful chassis as thier only driver aid (other than a LSD and ABS). Time ITuink will also be good to these cars so snap them up at a bargain while you still can.
itsybitsy said:
the 996 sold in great numbers what 2-3x as many 993.
You could say that they were more affordable on that basis alone. Lots more credit buyers kicking around etc. When I was growing up in the 70s/80s you simply never saw a 911 on an average housing estate. The odd one I recall seeing as a kid was memorable to this day. Today they are all over the place, so either we are all a lot more wealthy or they have become more affordable to the masses via finance etc. I would say the latter.uktrailmonster said:
itsybitsy said:
the 996 sold in great numbers what 2-3x as many 993.
You could say that they were more affordable on that basis alone. Lots more credit buyers kicking around etc. When I was growing up in the 70s/80s you simply never saw a 911 on an average housing estate. The odd one I recall seeing as a kid was memorable to this day. Today they are all over the place, so either we are all a lot more wealthy or they have become more affordable to the masses via finance etc. I would say the latter.
This is a good thread for sure, and, I see the point of it but, at the end of the day a chap (or chapess!) should buy the best he/she can afford without stretching their finances. He/She should enjoy what they can afford and don't worry about the resale value. When it comes to change up time if you haven't the funds to move on you still have the 911 you've been enjoying so far, just carry on enjoying it for a while longer. It's still an icon, a Porsche 911 after all, something a lot of people can't afford but would dream of owning.
+1
cjb1 said:
This is a good thread for sure, and, I see the point of it but, at the end of the day a chap (or chapess!) should buy the best he/she can afford without stretching their finances. He/She should enjoy what they can afford and don't worry about the resale value. When it comes to change up time if you haven't the funds to move on you still have the 911 you've been enjoying so far, just carry on enjoying it for a while longer. It's still an icon, a Porsche 911 after all, something a lot of people can't afford but would dream of owning.
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