Golden Warranty
Discussion
I have researched warranties extensively and have direct experience of both Warrantywise and the Porsche warranty.
My experience has been that neither warranty does what I really wanted. I wanted 100% piece of mind for all mechanical and all electrical failures including wear and tear.
The WW policy purportedly covered wear and tear however this was was elaborated as 'premature failure' in the small print - which is not really the same thing.
Both policies excluded consumable items e.g., gaskets, seals etc.
So, I realised with both warranties that the cover was, unsurprisingly, directed at low probability failures (albeit these failures could be expensive to remedy) and once any claim had been thoroughly qualified, certain aspects were not covered e.g., consumables or items were excluded that formed part of the overall repair.
In itself none of the above made the warranties bad, however through experience I deduced that they were nowhere near as comprehensive as they claim and that one should consider the outcome from a number of scenarios before trying to assess the value of the warranty.
These scenarios might include
- A part failing that is not covered that then causes further, covered parts to fail - what's the payout then?
- The premature failure clause and how that could pan out for a number of scenarios
- What exactly is covered if an engine or gearbox went pop.
So my conclusions were that all the policies would ever do is, to a varying degree, provide a contribution towards any repair bill and the extent of the contribution would be based on the unique repair scenario that presented itself I.e., the warranty's marketing of 'what's covered and what's not' is actually misleading as it is not always the case that a single item(s) fail on their own.
Once I got my head around this, then I realised that the only way to judge whether a warranty was worth having was if I had access to a database of scenarios that had been paid out previously vs. their total invoice cost vs. the probability of the scenario occurring at all. Given this information is not readily available, then I formed the view that the decision to proceed was an emotional one driven by my fear of being stiffed with a big unexpected bill. A decision based on 'is it worth it or not' was simply not available without better information.
Bottom line is that these policies are partial piece of mind for anxious types to help them sleep more easily at night. I guess those that self-insure would stay awake all night grinding their teeth in frustration if they bought a policy and never claimed on it, which is why they sleep more easily at night without a policy.
For the record I always get a warranty and for the record the best warranty I've ever had was the Mercedes Tier 1 warranty - that covered wear and tear (and everything else) very extensively and I got heaps of work done well beyond the cost of the warranty on both a CL55 and an ML63. But I would suggest that the cover I enjoyed was not driven by the conditions of the warranty, but on the customer focus displayed by the dealer(s) and the engineers who qualified each claim.
In conclusion, buy a warranty if you're a nervous type and / or if you think the dealer / warranty company will always look kindly on your claim and / or if you truly have limited resources for unforeseen repairs. If you try and make a decision based on incomplete probabilities and / or anecdotal wisdom (like mine) - that's called betting.
My experience has been that neither warranty does what I really wanted. I wanted 100% piece of mind for all mechanical and all electrical failures including wear and tear.
The WW policy purportedly covered wear and tear however this was was elaborated as 'premature failure' in the small print - which is not really the same thing.
Both policies excluded consumable items e.g., gaskets, seals etc.
So, I realised with both warranties that the cover was, unsurprisingly, directed at low probability failures (albeit these failures could be expensive to remedy) and once any claim had been thoroughly qualified, certain aspects were not covered e.g., consumables or items were excluded that formed part of the overall repair.
In itself none of the above made the warranties bad, however through experience I deduced that they were nowhere near as comprehensive as they claim and that one should consider the outcome from a number of scenarios before trying to assess the value of the warranty.
These scenarios might include
- A part failing that is not covered that then causes further, covered parts to fail - what's the payout then?
- The premature failure clause and how that could pan out for a number of scenarios
- What exactly is covered if an engine or gearbox went pop.
So my conclusions were that all the policies would ever do is, to a varying degree, provide a contribution towards any repair bill and the extent of the contribution would be based on the unique repair scenario that presented itself I.e., the warranty's marketing of 'what's covered and what's not' is actually misleading as it is not always the case that a single item(s) fail on their own.
Once I got my head around this, then I realised that the only way to judge whether a warranty was worth having was if I had access to a database of scenarios that had been paid out previously vs. their total invoice cost vs. the probability of the scenario occurring at all. Given this information is not readily available, then I formed the view that the decision to proceed was an emotional one driven by my fear of being stiffed with a big unexpected bill. A decision based on 'is it worth it or not' was simply not available without better information.
Bottom line is that these policies are partial piece of mind for anxious types to help them sleep more easily at night. I guess those that self-insure would stay awake all night grinding their teeth in frustration if they bought a policy and never claimed on it, which is why they sleep more easily at night without a policy.
For the record I always get a warranty and for the record the best warranty I've ever had was the Mercedes Tier 1 warranty - that covered wear and tear (and everything else) very extensively and I got heaps of work done well beyond the cost of the warranty on both a CL55 and an ML63. But I would suggest that the cover I enjoyed was not driven by the conditions of the warranty, but on the customer focus displayed by the dealer(s) and the engineers who qualified each claim.
In conclusion, buy a warranty if you're a nervous type and / or if you think the dealer / warranty company will always look kindly on your claim and / or if you truly have limited resources for unforeseen repairs. If you try and make a decision based on incomplete probabilities and / or anecdotal wisdom (like mine) - that's called betting.
Edited by sasha320 on Friday 12th October 09:43
sasha320 said:
I have researched warranties extensively and have direct experience of both Warrantywise and the Porsche warranty.
My experience has been that neither warranty does what I really wanted. I wanted 100% piece of mind for all mechanical and all electrical failures including wear and tear.
The WW policy purportedly covered wear and tear however this was was elaborated as 'premature failure' in the small print - which is not really the same thing.
Both policies excluded consumable items e.g., gaskets, seals etc.
So, I realised with both warranties that the cover was, unsurprisingly, directed at low probability failures (albeit these failures could be expensive to remedy) and once any claim had been thoroughly qualified, certain aspects were not covered e.g., consumables or items were excluded that formed part of the overall repair.
In itself none of the above made the warranties bad, however through experience I deduced that they were nowhere near as comprehensive as they claim and that one should consider the outcome from a number of scenarios before trying to assess the value of the warranty.
These scenarios might include
- A part failing that is not covered that then causes further, covered parts to fail - what's the payout then?
- The premature failure clause and how that could pan out for a number of scenarios
- What exactly is covered if an engine or gearbox went pop.
So my conclusions were that all the policies would ever do is, to a varying degree, provide a contribution towards any repair bill and the extent of the contribution would be based on the unique repair scenario that presented itself I.e., the warranty's marketing of 'what's covered and what's not' is actually misleading as it is not always the case that a single item(s) fail on their own.
Once I got my head around this, then I realised that the only way to judge whether a warranty was worth having was if I had access to a database of scenarios that had been paid out previously vs. their total invoice cost vs. the probability of the scenario occurring at all. Given this information is not readily available, then I formed the view that the decision to proceed was an emotional one driven by my fear of being stiffed with a big unexpected bill. A decision based on 'is it worth it or not' was simply not available without better information.
Bottom line is that these policies are partial piece of mind for anxious types to help them sleep more easily at night. I guess those that self-insure would stay awake all night grinding their teeth in frustration if they bought a policy and never claimed on it, which is why they sleep more easily at night without a policy.
For the record I always get a warranty and for the record the best warranty I've ever had was the Mercedes Tier 1 warranty - that covered wear and tear (and everything else) very extensively and I got heaps of work done well beyond the cost of the warranty on both a CL55 and an ML63. But I would suggest that the cover I enjoyed was not driven by the conditions of the warranty, but on the customer focus displayed by the dealer(s) and the engineers who qualified each claim.
In conclusion, buy a warranty if you're a nervous type and / or if you think the dealer / warranty company will always look kindly on your claim and / or if you truly have limited resources for unforeseen repairs. If you try and make a decision based on incomplete probabilities and / or anecdotal wisdom (like mine) - that's called betting.
I'm not that worried about a failure so, having garnered a lot of opinion and more than a little actual experience on this thread I think I'll sack the warranty, save some cash and have a couple of extra cocktails this weekend!! My experience has been that neither warranty does what I really wanted. I wanted 100% piece of mind for all mechanical and all electrical failures including wear and tear.
The WW policy purportedly covered wear and tear however this was was elaborated as 'premature failure' in the small print - which is not really the same thing.
Both policies excluded consumable items e.g., gaskets, seals etc.
So, I realised with both warranties that the cover was, unsurprisingly, directed at low probability failures (albeit these failures could be expensive to remedy) and once any claim had been thoroughly qualified, certain aspects were not covered e.g., consumables or items were excluded that formed part of the overall repair.
In itself none of the above made the warranties bad, however through experience I deduced that they were nowhere near as comprehensive as they claim and that one should consider the outcome from a number of scenarios before trying to assess the value of the warranty.
These scenarios might include
- A part failing that is not covered that then causes further, covered parts to fail - what's the payout then?
- The premature failure clause and how that could pan out for a number of scenarios
- What exactly is covered if an engine or gearbox went pop.
So my conclusions were that all the policies would ever do is, to a varying degree, provide a contribution towards any repair bill and the extent of the contribution would be based on the unique repair scenario that presented itself I.e., the warranty's marketing of 'what's covered and what's not' is actually misleading as it is not always the case that a single item(s) fail on their own.
Once I got my head around this, then I realised that the only way to judge whether a warranty was worth having was if I had access to a database of scenarios that had been paid out previously vs. their total invoice cost vs. the probability of the scenario occurring at all. Given this information is not readily available, then I formed the view that the decision to proceed was an emotional one driven by my fear of being stiffed with a big unexpected bill. A decision based on 'is it worth it or not' was simply not available without better information.
Bottom line is that these policies are partial piece of mind for anxious types to help them sleep more easily at night. I guess those that self-insure would stay awake all night grinding their teeth in frustration if they bought a policy and never claimed on it, which is why they sleep more easily at night without a policy.
For the record I always get a warranty and for the record the best warranty I've ever had was the Mercedes Tier 1 warranty - that covered wear and tear (and everything else) very extensively and I got heaps of work done well beyond the cost of the warranty on both a CL55 and an ML63. But I would suggest that the cover I enjoyed was not driven by the conditions of the warranty, but on the customer focus displayed by the dealer(s) and the engineers who qualified each claim.
In conclusion, buy a warranty if you're a nervous type and / or if you think the dealer / warranty company will always look kindly on your claim and / or if you truly have limited resources for unforeseen repairs. If you try and make a decision based on incomplete probabilities and / or anecdotal wisdom (like mine) - that's called betting.
Edited by sasha320 on Friday 12th October 09:43
Edited by Chrisp5782 on Friday 12th October 11:18
Chris , I was in your shoes 3 1/2 years ago when I bought my 2.7 Cayman, for the last 2 years it has been un warrantied. Had it been the 3.4 then I'd probably have gotten rid by now or taken some sort of cover out.
I looked at WW and WD and reasoned that they would probably wriggle out of paying any big bill which is the reason I'd take a warranty out, I'm quite happy to cover routine running / replacement costs of the usual things that go on a car.
So 2 years without a warranty, now going into my 3rd, I reckon I've got £3k to put towards any big bill saved from not taking out an OPC warranty.
To date car has had a minor service , going in for a major today, a Halfrauds battery and that is it. Uses no oil, no issues. Happy days
I looked at WW and WD and reasoned that they would probably wriggle out of paying any big bill which is the reason I'd take a warranty out, I'm quite happy to cover routine running / replacement costs of the usual things that go on a car.
So 2 years without a warranty, now going into my 3rd, I reckon I've got £3k to put towards any big bill saved from not taking out an OPC warranty.
To date car has had a minor service , going in for a major today, a Halfrauds battery and that is it. Uses no oil, no issues. Happy days
sasha320 said:
...the best warranty I've ever had was the Mercedes Tier 1 warranty - that covered wear and tear (and everything else) very extensively and I got heaps of work done well beyond the cost of the warranty on both a CL55 and an ML63.
The Merc cover is very good - I had a 2002 SL55 last year and their in-house recovery service replaced a starter battery (car has 2 batteries) and when I put it in for a service they fixed a fault that caused the supercharger to disengage when driven hard (a failed pump causing overheating) and also a suspension strut. However, the customer service from the Merc dealer was poor - Friday: "We've done the service and s/c fault, there's a slight issue with a strut but it's ok to leave it - do you still want us to do the MOT (which it was booked in for with the service on the Monday 4 days earlier)?" Yes of course. "Well, we can't fit it in till Monday, there's no slots left" FFS! It then failed on the strut which had to be ordered and took most of the week to arrive (it was covered by the warranty so why the dealer didn't do it when they noticed an issue at the service I've no idea!). I made my level of (dis)satisfaction politely known - no apology, goodwill gesture, nothing. Actually, one wheel was missing a bolt and I did manage to convince them not to charge me for a new one. It was a dealer in the Macclesfield area in case anyone was wondering.Anyway, whilst their warranty cover is good, it is expensive. I got the renewal through at £2900 with no excess, which dropped to £2500 for a £150 excess, which seemed a much better deal as you wouldn't expect to need to claim more than 3 times in a year.
I'm afraid most warranties aren't worth the paper they are written on, I would be quite sceptical of paying £500 a year for a warranty that may not cover a repair and if it did I'd still have to put a further £500 to the pot. Me I would sooner stick a grand in a bank account and take the risk of having to add a couple of grand to it, doesn't take long to be ahead at that game putting £500 a year in to it.
911 engines do pop no doubt, but not every one, it's an insurance like any other, do you want to gamble wasting the money or gamble on a big bill. Me I prefer to risk the bill and it's paid off over the years.
As for Quentin Wilson putting his name to a product, that would not be a selling point to me, anyone recalling the snake oil thread (Ametech engine restore) a magic potion that could reverse engine wear by pumping gear oil filled with metal swarf round your engine will remember that was and still is endorsed by Quentin Wilson..........It is universally denounced by every oil expert however, indeed anyone with any mechanical or engineering knowledge can see it's a joke. I would hate to presume the main motivation of his backing was financial.
911 engines do pop no doubt, but not every one, it's an insurance like any other, do you want to gamble wasting the money or gamble on a big bill. Me I prefer to risk the bill and it's paid off over the years.
As for Quentin Wilson putting his name to a product, that would not be a selling point to me, anyone recalling the snake oil thread (Ametech engine restore) a magic potion that could reverse engine wear by pumping gear oil filled with metal swarf round your engine will remember that was and still is endorsed by Quentin Wilson..........It is universally denounced by every oil expert however, indeed anyone with any mechanical or engineering knowledge can see it's a joke. I would hate to presume the main motivation of his backing was financial.
wildoliver said:
I'm afraid most warranties aren't worth the paper they are written on, I would be quite sceptical of paying £500 a year for a warranty that may not cover a repair and if it did I'd still have to put a further £500 to the pot. Me I would sooner stick a grand in a bank account and take the risk of having to add a couple of grand to it, doesn't take long to be ahead at that game putting £500 a year in to it.
911 engines do pop no doubt, but not every one, it's an insurance like any other, do you want to gamble wasting the money or gamble on a big bill. Me I prefer to risk the bill and it's paid off over the years.
As for Quentin Wilson putting his name to a product, that would not be a selling point to me, anyone recalling the snake oil thread (Ametech engine restore) a magic potion that could reverse engine wear by pumping gear oil filled with metal swarf round your engine will remember that was and still is endorsed by Quentin Wilson..........It is universally denounced by every oil expert however, indeed anyone with any mechanical or engineering knowledge can see it's a joke. I would hate to presume the main motivation of his backing was financial.
I think what you've said is pretty much everyone's train of thought which is why I've binned the idea ( see earlier reply )911 engines do pop no doubt, but not every one, it's an insurance like any other, do you want to gamble wasting the money or gamble on a big bill. Me I prefer to risk the bill and it's paid off over the years.
As for Quentin Wilson putting his name to a product, that would not be a selling point to me, anyone recalling the snake oil thread (Ametech engine restore) a magic potion that could reverse engine wear by pumping gear oil filled with metal swarf round your engine will remember that was and still is endorsed by Quentin Wilson..........It is universally denounced by every oil expert however, indeed anyone with any mechanical or engineering knowledge can see it's a joke. I would hate to presume the main motivation of his backing was financial.
As I understand it QW is co-owner of WW however, money is always the key and he'll be cashing in - big time for sure.
As an aside, and an amusing story for Friday evening... when I first got my 996 back in 2007, I had the OPC warranty for a couple of years (when it was about 700/annum).
Anyway, when the OPC did the initial 111 point check it passed everything apart from them finding one of the horns wasns't working. But they issued the warranty anyway and I continued to use it like that. 2 years later, when it was in for a minor service, I was told, "one of your horns isn't working, so we've replaced it under warranty"
Happy days...
Anyway, when the OPC did the initial 111 point check it passed everything apart from them finding one of the horns wasns't working. But they issued the warranty anyway and I continued to use it like that. 2 years later, when it was in for a minor service, I was told, "one of your horns isn't working, so we've replaced it under warranty"
Happy days...
Diesel130 said:
As an aside, and an amusing story for Friday evening... when I first got my 996 back in 2007, I had the OPC warranty for a couple of years (when it was about 700/annum).
Anyway, when the OPC did the initial 111 point check it passed everything apart from them finding one of the horns wasns't working. But they issued the warranty anyway and I continued to use it like that. 2 years later, when it was in for a minor service, I was told, "one of your horns isn't working, so we've replaced it under warranty" Happy days...
Mint! Anyway, when the OPC did the initial 111 point check it passed everything apart from them finding one of the horns wasns't working. But they issued the warranty anyway and I continued to use it like that. 2 years later, when it was in for a minor service, I was told, "one of your horns isn't working, so we've replaced it under warranty"
Happy days...Chrisp5782 said:
I'm not that worried about a failure so, having garnered a lot of opinion and more than a little actual experience on this thread I think I'll sack the warranty, save some cash and have a couple of extra cocktails this weekend!!
+1. I have had warranties on and off over a period of 25 years against road cars, and though, unlike others, I have not had any claims denied, it would have been better not to insure and save money on the main dealer car service as well. Probably spent around £5-6k and only claimed for £1800, and spent close to £1600 extra on main dealer services. With Porsche, the warranty would be around £2200 including inspection and £1250 for the service over two years, where as an indy would be £250 - £500. Edited by Chrisp5782 on Friday 12th October 11:18
For race cars or cars you are going to track the story might be different. I have had numerous problems (2 blown engines, failed gearbox (no oil after service), broken exhaust, snapped rose joint etc) luckily mostly covered by a warranty apart from one of the engine claims was rejected by the manufacturer.
Porsche will cover trackdays but not over-revving damage. :-D
Update against warranty wise. The EGR valve was leaking on my car -around £200 to replace. Not an obvious part covered by most warranties, but it is mechanical so warranty wise covered it at main dealer rates within the hour of calling - no arguments.
The diff seal and CV gaitor were also leaking but this is not mechanical nor electrical so obviously not covered. As previously mentioned warrantywise do exactly what it says on the tin.
BTW opc porsche warranty would have not covered any of this because the car is six years old and has done 115 k miles.
The diff seal and CV gaitor were also leaking but this is not mechanical nor electrical so obviously not covered. As previously mentioned warrantywise do exactly what it says on the tin.
BTW opc porsche warranty would have not covered any of this because the car is six years old and has done 115 k miles.
tjlees said:
Update against warranty wise. The EGR valve was leaking on my car -around £200 to replace. Not an obvious part covered by most warranties, but it is mechanical so warranty wise covered it at main dealer rates within the hour of calling - no arguments.
The diff seal and CV gaitor were also leaking but this is not mechanical nor electrical so obviously not covered. As previously mentioned warrantywise do exactly what it says on the tin.
BTW opc porsche warranty would have not covered any of this because the car is six years old and has done 115 k miles.
Interesting, I'm still turning it all over in my head. I'm glad you had a positive experience, it's encouraging at least! The diff seal and CV gaitor were also leaking but this is not mechanical nor electrical so obviously not covered. As previously mentioned warrantywise do exactly what it says on the tin.
BTW opc porsche warranty would have not covered any of this because the car is six years old and has done 115 k miles.
smokey145 said:
any more experiences with warranty direct?
I ended up going with their Luxury Lite package (£150 PA for cover of major components including engine, gearbox etc) thankfully I've not needed to call on it yet and I hope not to!I guess only time and a spot of bad luck will prove it to be any good or not!?
Soovy said:
Chrisp5782 said:
Soovy said:
Chrisp5782 said:
Diesel130 said:
Chrisp5782 said:
Blue62 said:
Chrisp5782 said:
I'm now on the phone to the technical department having asked specifically:
"Is IMS failure and resulting damage covered?"
"Is cam chain breakage covered?"
"Is cylinder scoring covered?"
I will post responses verbatum......
With respect Crisp, it's what you get in writing that counts. You seem to know your own mind, but the concensus of most old lag Pork owners around here is to go for the OPC warranty, otherwise you're pretty much wasting your money. Good luck whatever you decide, I think the car you're in is less blighted than most."Is IMS failure and resulting damage covered?"
"Is cam chain breakage covered?"
"Is cylinder scoring covered?"
I will post responses verbatum......
Another update against warrantywise.
The door lock went on the car - around £197 to repair. Again not normally a part covered by a warranty, but warrantywise covers all mechanical and electrical parts. A lock is mechanical. Repair authorised on the day, directly with garage through livelink covering the part and £100+/ph labour. Docs sent by email. Job done
The door lock went on the car - around £197 to repair. Again not normally a part covered by a warranty, but warrantywise covers all mechanical and electrical parts. A lock is mechanical. Repair authorised on the day, directly with garage through livelink covering the part and £100+/ph labour. Docs sent by email. Job done
The final conclusion on the Warrantywise that I have had for the last 3 years, since its about to expire in 12 days time.
I have just about broken even on the parts claimed v the cost of the warranty over the 3 yr period and around 75k miles. The main benefit is peace of mind, the main dis-benefit is having to wait for the third party to authorise the claim. This is not too bad, since the main dealer garage normally supplies a courtesy car while i'm waiting. The warranty did what it said in the booklet and followed the clauses to the letter, therefore read the booklet carefully
Would I buy a warranty again? Probably No. If I did, it would not be one for a main dealer, since any generic part replacement is challenged by the warranty company, and the main dealer cannot handle refurbs or secondhand parts and put any warranty on it.
Additionally the new warrantywise policies now exclude locks and EGR valves - this accounted for over £750 that I claimed on my warranty. Wear and Tear is also now excluded after 100k miles so this would have probably excluded the secondary fan recently claimed.
I think for my Porsche, I will let the warranty expire, and put the £1100+ charged for renewing the warranty and £2000+ spent on main dealer servicing every two years into a fund marked 'just in case'.
I have just about broken even on the parts claimed v the cost of the warranty over the 3 yr period and around 75k miles. The main benefit is peace of mind, the main dis-benefit is having to wait for the third party to authorise the claim. This is not too bad, since the main dealer garage normally supplies a courtesy car while i'm waiting. The warranty did what it said in the booklet and followed the clauses to the letter, therefore read the booklet carefully
Would I buy a warranty again? Probably No. If I did, it would not be one for a main dealer, since any generic part replacement is challenged by the warranty company, and the main dealer cannot handle refurbs or secondhand parts and put any warranty on it.
Additionally the new warrantywise policies now exclude locks and EGR valves - this accounted for over £750 that I claimed on my warranty. Wear and Tear is also now excluded after 100k miles so this would have probably excluded the secondary fan recently claimed.
I think for my Porsche, I will let the warranty expire, and put the £1100+ charged for renewing the warranty and £2000+ spent on main dealer servicing every two years into a fund marked 'just in case'.
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