991 GT3 - latest pics
Discussion
Great Pretender said:
fioran0 said:
Steve has covered most of anything I would have added ref the engines.
£45k and £19k are the current retail prices on a mezger and 9a1 engine without core exchange.
The point of posting was just to offer an alternative view on why Porsche may be so keen to phase it out ala 997 turbo.
There's very little margin on the GT3 even with its higher sale price while good margin on say a C2 despite its lower sale price and it's entirely due to the engine. The rest of the costs to build and deliver are very close between the two.
This is the source of Porsches complaint over the GT3 line.
It would be reasonable thus to assume that the sale price differential in no way covers the difference in engine cost price to Porsche. If it did then margin would be as good or better.
Despite making the engine for some years there's just no way to cut its cost. The components inside are expensive and there's no way around it if you want to make something of that quality.
What's your source for this info?£45k and £19k are the current retail prices on a mezger and 9a1 engine without core exchange.
The point of posting was just to offer an alternative view on why Porsche may be so keen to phase it out ala 997 turbo.
There's very little margin on the GT3 even with its higher sale price while good margin on say a C2 despite its lower sale price and it's entirely due to the engine. The rest of the costs to build and deliver are very close between the two.
This is the source of Porsches complaint over the GT3 line.
It would be reasonable thus to assume that the sale price differential in no way covers the difference in engine cost price to Porsche. If it did then margin would be as good or better.
Despite making the engine for some years there's just no way to cut its cost. The components inside are expensive and there's no way around it if you want to make something of that quality.
I was told a while back that approx 50% of the build cost for a new GT3 is the engine, it will be interesting to see if Porsche use a titanium infused 9A1.
Edited by Carl_Docklands on Monday 15th October 13:31
Steve Rance said:
Doesn't surprise me. I was speaking to somebody at Porsche a few years ago who told me that the 996RS was the first 911 that the company had actually made that cost more to build than they sold it for. The marginal build costs over the standard 996GT3 were mainly a few suspension castings, some minor engine mods and carbon fibre body parts. Not a huge difference over the cooking GT3. This implys that the build costs of the GT3 were relatively high and that margins on the car were low as a consequence. The biggest single marginal cost item of these cars over the vanilla 996 was the engine. This would imply that it was a very expensive unit to build over the standard 996 unit of the time.
I though the 959 cost more to build than Porsche sold it for?SS7
Drove an MP4-12C at the weekend. Super fast but totally uninvolving. Dead steering, mono-tonal engine note (not helped by an auto transmission), and a chassis that does a very good job of excluding you from the drama (ride is very good though).
Whilst the gear-shift is quick and seamless, it's a bit 'XBox' to use, as you hear the micro-switches clicking away and register a dial change but other than this did it actually happen.
The only redeeming feature was the pace - it feels like 2nd-gear full-boost at all times.
Is this where Porsche are heading?
Whilst the gear-shift is quick and seamless, it's a bit 'XBox' to use, as you hear the micro-switches clicking away and register a dial change but other than this did it actually happen.
The only redeeming feature was the pace - it feels like 2nd-gear full-boost at all times.
Is this where Porsche are heading?
Carl_Docklands said:
Great Pretender said:
fioran0 said:
Steve has covered most of anything I would have added ref the engines.
£45k and £19k are the current retail prices on a mezger and 9a1 engine without core exchange.
The point of posting was just to offer an alternative view on why Porsche may be so keen to phase it out ala 997 turbo.
There's very little margin on the GT3 even with its higher sale price while good margin on say a C2 despite its lower sale price and it's entirely due to the engine. The rest of the costs to build and deliver are very close between the two.
This is the source of Porsches complaint over the GT3 line.
It would be reasonable thus to assume that the sale price differential in no way covers the difference in engine cost price to Porsche. If it did then margin would be as good or better.
Despite making the engine for some years there's just no way to cut its cost. The components inside are expensive and there's no way around it if you want to make something of that quality.
What's your source for this info?£45k and £19k are the current retail prices on a mezger and 9a1 engine without core exchange.
The point of posting was just to offer an alternative view on why Porsche may be so keen to phase it out ala 997 turbo.
There's very little margin on the GT3 even with its higher sale price while good margin on say a C2 despite its lower sale price and it's entirely due to the engine. The rest of the costs to build and deliver are very close between the two.
This is the source of Porsches complaint over the GT3 line.
It would be reasonable thus to assume that the sale price differential in no way covers the difference in engine cost price to Porsche. If it did then margin would be as good or better.
Despite making the engine for some years there's just no way to cut its cost. The components inside are expensive and there's no way around it if you want to make something of that quality.
I was told a while back that approx 50% of the build cost for a new GT3 is the engine, it will be interesting to see if Porsche use a titanium infused 9A1.
Edited by Carl_Docklands on Monday 15th October 13:31
Great Pretender said:
GT Glee said:
Great Pretender said:
Something's really wrong with Porsche's scalability calculations if after x thousand units as installed in everything from the first 996 turbo to the last GT3 RS, the unit cost is half the retail price of each car.
Had Porsche simply turbocharged the GT3 motor then agreed, but they're different from materials to number of main bearings.Do a web search about the use of GT3 parts in a Turbo engine and you will see what I mean.
Apart from the limited practicality it occurred to me the McLaren could be my primary car, not a 2nd or 3rd car toy.
Once the pace had lost its novelty value there really would be nothing left.
Whatever resides in my garage - doing not a lot each year - must earn its right to be there and it does this but putting a damn huge grin on my face.
Once the pace had lost its novelty value there really would be nothing left.
Whatever resides in my garage - doing not a lot each year - must earn its right to be there and it does this but putting a damn huge grin on my face.
Great Pretender said:
Carl_Docklands said:
Great Pretender said:
fioran0 said:
Steve has covered most of anything I would have added ref the engines.
£45k and £19k are the current retail prices on a mezger and 9a1 engine without core exchange.
The point of posting was just to offer an alternative view on why Porsche may be so keen to phase it out ala 997 turbo.
There's very little margin on the GT3 even with its higher sale price while good margin on say a C2 despite its lower sale price and it's entirely due to the engine. The rest of the costs to build and deliver are very close between the two.
This is the source of Porsches complaint over the GT3 line.
It would be reasonable thus to assume that the sale price differential in no way covers the difference in engine cost price to Porsche. If it did then margin would be as good or better.
Despite making the engine for some years there's just no way to cut its cost. The components inside are expensive and there's no way around it if you want to make something of that quality.
What's your source for this info?£45k and £19k are the current retail prices on a mezger and 9a1 engine without core exchange.
The point of posting was just to offer an alternative view on why Porsche may be so keen to phase it out ala 997 turbo.
There's very little margin on the GT3 even with its higher sale price while good margin on say a C2 despite its lower sale price and it's entirely due to the engine. The rest of the costs to build and deliver are very close between the two.
This is the source of Porsches complaint over the GT3 line.
It would be reasonable thus to assume that the sale price differential in no way covers the difference in engine cost price to Porsche. If it did then margin would be as good or better.
Despite making the engine for some years there's just no way to cut its cost. The components inside are expensive and there's no way around it if you want to make something of that quality.
I was told a while back that approx 50% of the build cost for a new GT3 is the engine, it will be interesting to see if Porsche use a titanium infused 9A1.
Edited by Carl_Docklands on Monday 15th October 13:31
It is easy to lose sight of how mass produced the 9A1 is, maybe a quarter of a million engines produced in 5 years?
abarber said:
Yup, I recently drove a loaded 991C2S auto (PDK, whatever..) and a rare manual in billy basic spec. The auto was instantly forgettable. The manual, strange clutch feel or not, a hoot to punt along and enjoy the musical six.
I don't quite understand this. The engine doesn't become less sonorous if it's attached to a PDK. In fact it blips away happily on downshifts with the best of them.If you drove the car in auto I would understand better but I assume you used it like the automated manual that it is. Stupid thumb operated push/pull levers ruin it but with proper up and down paddles I just cannot see why its so inferior.
Dblue said:
I don't quite understand this. The engine doesn't become less sonorous if it's attached to a PDK. In fact it blips away happily on downshifts with the best of them
Me neither. The 991 with PDK and PSE is probably the best sounding and most entertaining engine note the 911 (excluding GT3/RS) has had since it changed to water-cooled. Sports Plus in manual mode is proper pop-tastic 
Phooey said:
Me neither. The 991 with PDK and PSE is probably the best sounding and most entertaining engine note the 911 (excluding GT3/RS) has had since it changed to water-cooled. Sports Plus in manual mode is proper pop-tastic
Because I love the sound and tactile involvement blipping the throttle, heel and toeing or just simply swapping gears myself. If I want to listen to a computer doing this, I'll fire up an XBOX.
Porsche are aiming for the Jag driver / non-enthusiast these days. A real shame if the GT3 has come to this.
Some more pics... http://www.autogespot.be/nl/porsche-991-gt3/2012/1...
Mermaid said:
Also the "Purists" have moved on - evolution.
But when I want to be entertained and enjoy the mechanical and physical act of driving, along with all of the challenges that brings, I turn to a manual. Nothing comes close. There is no joy or reward in pressing buttons.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
plus Porsche are coming at the 991 with the 911 brand suffering falling global sales of on average 20% per year since 2008 apparently. 2007 was the last year of non negative numbers. the cayman and boxster, with the exception of 2005 have been shelling sales numbers endlessly aswell. their sports cars are out sold massively by their luxo/suv models.folks have just been abandoning them in terms of new sports cars sold in serious fashion.
one might argue that they were simultaneously out of touch with both purists and luxury car buyers; it seems like they have decided that luxury car buyers offer more hope for their future.
Edited by fioran0 on Monday 15th October 23:37
Phooey said:
Some more pics... http://www.autogespot.be/nl/porsche-991-gt3/2012/1...
un disguised rear bumper finally too. i was really thinking there might be more of a diffuser under there when the camo came off.Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff