Porsche itch won't go away....time for a C4S!?
Discussion
kayc said:
anyone who remotely compares a 996 c4s with a 996 turbo is either clueless or cant afford the latter...
This is rubbish. Your own personal opinion doesn't make others who might disagree with it clueless or short of cash as you nicely put it. Some people (like you) find the C4S boring and some others find the Turbo equally dull too. They are quite different cars in many respects and nobody is right, wrong or clueless in their preference. My take is that the Turbo, although immensely quick, is a bit bland to drive unless you really have a death wish. I can see the attraction of the effortless torque, but I honestly prefer n/a cars and even the bog standard C2. I guess that makes me clueless?
I have had my 03 C4S Coupe for 18 months. I really enjoy it, it has the factory fitted PSE and sounds incredible; although this can be a bit too noisey for some circuits if you enjoy a day or two at full throttle. I fitted lighter Turbo alloys, which have made a slight difference to acceleration times.
The turbo is a faster car, much faster, but it does not sound like the C4S and the opportunity to 'let it go' will not appear very often.
The C4S is a Porsche, so it is a very quick car and will leave others standing, but you will be looking at the tailpipes of a turbo.
If you can afford it go drive both, try them out make your own mind up - it will be your cash.
Condition, tyres and up to date servicing is everything; do not compromise on this with apparent 'low miles'. Get the car inspected by Peter Morgan (or GaryH) for @£300 - it will tell you everything you need to know, and make you feel happy you are not not buying a lemon, or if you are how much it will cost you to put 'right'.
RMS seals should all have either leaked or been fixed by now, another thing to look out for is corrosion to power steering clamps/clips - £800 from OPC or £160 from Steve Bull or similar...
My final words will be that in my year of ownership, necessary spend has been £400 on servicing, near a £1000 on tyres and about £60 on oil (so budget on min.spend of £1500 pa. The C4S is a great sports car, it tracks well and drives wonderfully - mine is not for sale...
The turbo is a faster car, much faster, but it does not sound like the C4S and the opportunity to 'let it go' will not appear very often.
The C4S is a Porsche, so it is a very quick car and will leave others standing, but you will be looking at the tailpipes of a turbo.
If you can afford it go drive both, try them out make your own mind up - it will be your cash.
Condition, tyres and up to date servicing is everything; do not compromise on this with apparent 'low miles'. Get the car inspected by Peter Morgan (or GaryH) for @£300 - it will tell you everything you need to know, and make you feel happy you are not not buying a lemon, or if you are how much it will cost you to put 'right'.
RMS seals should all have either leaked or been fixed by now, another thing to look out for is corrosion to power steering clamps/clips - £800 from OPC or £160 from Steve Bull or similar...
My final words will be that in my year of ownership, necessary spend has been £400 on servicing, near a £1000 on tyres and about £60 on oil (so budget on min.spend of £1500 pa. The C4S is a great sports car, it tracks well and drives wonderfully - mine is not for sale...
F3RNANDO said:
FeelingLucky said:
macky17 said:
I can understand your being tempted by a turbo but allow me to share my experience:
Buy the c4s - it's lighter, more nimble and more genuinely a sports car than the turbo. Less is definitely more.
Less is only ever more when it's less that you are selling.Buy the c4s - it's lighter, more nimble and more genuinely a sports car than the turbo. Less is definitely more.
Edited by macky17 on Sunday 11th November 10:04
All the rest of the time more is more.
Is the Turbo better than the C4S, Hell YES.
RMS/IMS, bore scoring, you'll never have to worry about any of these with the Turbo.
The price difference between the two simply cannot justify going for second best.
Just my $0.02
According to EVO the C4S is second best......
But not to the turbo......its to the GT3!
Don't shoot the messenger
What year did the turbo win ecoty?
kayc said:
macky17 said:
So it doesn't feel lighter on its feet or have better steering? I just assumed it would. So a 996 C4S is basically a 996 turbo with no turbo?? Must be the dullest car imaginable then as the turbo is by far the best thing about it.
Yup i think that is spot on imo.The turbo (not even mine!) just cannot compete.
Edited by monthefish on Tuesday 13th November 16:10
uktrailmonster said:
This is rubbish. Your own personal opinion doesn't make others who might disagree with it clueless or short of cash as you nicely put it. Some people (like you) find the C4S boring and some others find the Turbo equally dull too. They are quite different cars in many respects and nobody is right, wrong or clueless in their preference.
My take is that the Turbo, although immensely quick, is a bit bland to drive unless you really have a death wish. I can see the attraction of the effortless torque, but I honestly prefer n/a cars and even the bog standard C2. I guess that makes me clueless?
Well i have had both and i honestly see no area that the C4s is better than the Turbo unless people prefer the look..my 996 tt was probably the most impressive pound for pound car i have owned..the C4s one of the worst i have had..its just clearly not fast enough to be considered a 'supercar' whereas the tt can mix it with all but the top level cars..as you said even the tt can be dull..thats why i had mine Dms'd to liven it up a bit.My take is that the Turbo, although immensely quick, is a bit bland to drive unless you really have a death wish. I can see the attraction of the effortless torque, but I honestly prefer n/a cars and even the bog standard C2. I guess that makes me clueless?
I have a C4S with PSE. It has the Turbo looks minus the vents and i get looks from people that maybe saying "flash currant" or worse. To the layman its a Porsche 911, so it must be fast. 99% of people dont know what engine is in it and how fast it goes. But around my estate im a bit of a hero to the kids not because i have come back from Afghan but because i have a growly 911! There is also a Nissan GTR and another 911 (C2) on it as well but another reason why the kids like it is i have "F1 gear change"....its a Tip but what do they know!
But i have had white van men give me the thumbs up, workmates wanting a go in it, my kids wanting to be picked up from School in it and their mates wanting a ride in it.....and not one person has said "should of bought the Turbo"!
This is fast enough for me and i have had Imprezas and 3.2 A3's. I got bored with the Impreza as i had to constantly "drive" it to get it to go. But 70% of driving the Porsche is the fact im sitting in a 911, the speed is the remaining 30% which i cant always reach on todays roads anyway.
I could of got a Turbo and yes, could of got to 60 a second quicker (or whatever it is) and could of outrun the Police at top end but around my local Dorset country roads, not once have i wished i had the extra power. After all, majority of the speed of a car is in the skill of the driver.
But i have had white van men give me the thumbs up, workmates wanting a go in it, my kids wanting to be picked up from School in it and their mates wanting a ride in it.....and not one person has said "should of bought the Turbo"!
This is fast enough for me and i have had Imprezas and 3.2 A3's. I got bored with the Impreza as i had to constantly "drive" it to get it to go. But 70% of driving the Porsche is the fact im sitting in a 911, the speed is the remaining 30% which i cant always reach on todays roads anyway.
I could of got a Turbo and yes, could of got to 60 a second quicker (or whatever it is) and could of outrun the Police at top end but around my local Dorset country roads, not once have i wished i had the extra power. After all, majority of the speed of a car is in the skill of the driver.
steve singh said:
Most say the C4S widebody is the slowest 996?
Glorious exhaust note though...
I'd be surprised if its slower than a 3.4 C4? (20hp less, similar weight)Glorious exhaust note though...
But do you know what, a 3.4 C4 is a cracking car as well and anyone thinking its to slow to be rewarding is either only into drag racing (and 5.5 sec to 60 is too slow) or is basing the judgment on the decimal points in the performance figures. I like to judge based on the experience I have when driving. I haven't driven a 911 that wasn't enjoyable. C4S is a sports car, a turbo is a super car and the performance dominates the driving experience (as opposed to the poise, balance, feedback etc). It's a fabulous car though and I'm tempted to run one for 12 months.
I'm surprised we haven't had the man vs tip discussion. If you're after a sports car type experience (as i think the OP is?) a turbo tip, or in deed any tip, will be a horrible let down. It would seem that 60 or 70% of turbos are tips, this has always confused me a little and made me think the original owner was specing a tourer / commuter all be it a very, very fast one.
I'm wondering if all the 'more is more' commentators would extend that to driver aids etc in the pursuit of pace? One thing I love about the stability controls in the 996 is how un intrusive it is, it lets you get the car moving around a lot before intervening. Far more so than BMWs and the Jap stuff. This is only relevant if you leave the stability control on - which I do 90% of the time.
Hungrymc said:
steve singh said:
Most say the C4S widebody is the slowest 996?
Glorious exhaust note though...
I'd be surprised if its slower than a 3.4 C4? (20hp less, similar weight)Glorious exhaust note though...
But do you know what, a 3.4 C4 is a cracking car as well and anyone thinking its to slow to be rewarding is either only into drag racing (and 5.5 sec to 60 is too slow) or is basing the judgment on the decimal points in the performance figures. I like to judge based on the experience I have when driving. I haven't driven a 911 that wasn't enjoyable. C4S is a sports car, a turbo is a super car and the performance dominates the driving experience (as opposed to the poise, balance, feedback etc). It's a fabulous car though and I'm tempted to run one for 12 months.
I'm surprised we haven't had the man vs tip discussion. If you're after a sports car type experience (as i think the OP is?) a turbo tip, or in deed any tip, will be a horrible let down. It would seem that 60 or 70% of turbos are tips, this has always confused me a little and made me think the original owner was specing a tourer / commuter all be it a very, very fast one.
I'm wondering if all the 'more is more' commentators would extend that to driver aids etc in the pursuit of pace? One thing I love about the stability controls in the 996 is how un intrusive it is, it lets you get the car moving around a lot before intervening. Far more so than BMWs and the Jap stuff. This is only relevant if you leave the stability control on - which I do 90% of the time.
No difference in bhp if you buy the same year.
uktrailmonster said:
steve singh said:
Most say the C4S widebody is the slowest 996?
Glorious exhaust note though...
Slowest in a straight line, although I doubt most, if any, punters would notice the difference in accel between a C2, C4 and C4S. Obviously the Turbo feels much quicker than any of the n/a cars in a straight line. Glorious exhaust note though...
But as for driving around corners and braking, a C4S would definitely not be the slowest in most hands, especially if wet. Probably the quickest for most driving abilities.
Hungrymc said:
steve singh said:
Most say the C4S widebody is the slowest 996?
Glorious exhaust note though...
I'd be surprised if its slower than a 3.4 C4? (20hp less, similar weight)Glorious exhaust note though...
But do you know what, a 3.4 C4 is a cracking car as well and anyone thinking its to slow to be rewarding is either only into drag racing (and 5.5 sec to 60 is too slow) or is basing the judgment on the decimal points in the performance figures. I like to judge based on the experience I have when driving. I haven't driven a 911 that wasn't enjoyable. C4S is a sports car, a turbo is a super car and the performance dominates the driving experience (as opposed to the poise, balance, feedback etc). It's a fabulous car though and I'm tempted to run one for 12 months.
I'm surprised we haven't had the man vs tip discussion. If you're after a sports car type experience (as i think the OP is?) a turbo tip, or in deed any tip, will be a horrible let down. It would seem that 60 or 70% of turbos are tips, this has always confused me a little and made me think the original owner was specing a tourer / commuter all be it a very, very fast one.
I'm wondering if all the 'more is more' commentators would extend that to driver aids etc in the pursuit of pace? One thing I love about the stability controls in the 996 is how un intrusive it is, it lets you get the car moving around a lot before intervening. Far more so than BMWs and the Jap stuff. This is only relevant if you leave the stability control on - which I do 90% of the time.
steve singh said:
Just fyi - a widebody is about 175kgs heavier than a c2 and nearly 50kgs heavier than a standard c4.
No difference in bhp if you buy the same year.
Only diff in power is between 3.4 and 3.6 (you can't get a C4S with the 3.4) - that's what I meant, apologies if it want clear. You can argue that the 4wd cars have better weight distribution or that 2wd cars have better steering, and the 4wd cars have better traction, and that C4S have better brakes etc etc etc - my point was its really splitting hairs, the NA 996 (except gt3) are very similar in performance (and excluding tips). To buy one over the other based on such small performance differences would be a little pointless in my opinion - but I'm sure others disagree. No difference in bhp if you buy the same year.
Buy the one you enjoy the most as a package.
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