Lovely little car.....
Discussion
Hello Benjy911, and other members comments on WMR911K. I am the new owner of the car for over 3 years and have spent so much time on the history of the car.
The car is an S and has always been an S. Where the honest confusion comes from is Benjy911' a dad owned the car for a brief time in 1978 and the car was badged as a T and had a T engine installed by Charles Ivey who sold the car to Ben's dad all those year ago.
The original S engine had a failure in 1977 hence the reason why Charles Ivey put a T engine on the car and badged it as a T. I have the original V5 with Ben's dads name on it as the previous owner with the chassis number on it of an S and engine number still listed as an S also along with the original copy of the first registration document showing the car as an S and with its original number plate from day one WMR911K along with chassis and engine numbers showing it as an S.
I can't unfortunately post the documents online because of data protection act and name and address of Ben's dad on them but happy to email Ben or his dad if requested.
This is an honest mistake about the car by Ben's dad and he believed he had T not an S but if he had checked the chassis number he would have know it was an S and the V5 stating on it the chassis number is an S and if he had checked the original S engine on the V5 he would have know that the engine in the car wasn't its original S engine. Let's be honest back then none of us needed to check engine numbers and chassis as all we wanted to do is drive them and they didn't have the value of today.
Ben's dad of course thought because of all these reasons that he owned a T rightly so but it was an S and always has been. I also have the COA a letter married up with the number plate from new and the chassis number and number plate WMR911K have always been together from new belonging to an S.
It would be great now for all the negatives about my car are repaired and updated as the car deserves it and after the original S engine ended up in a Targa T S Spec from around 1981 which I tracked down and purchased and the car now has its original S engine back in it after 35 years its been an amazing journey for WMR911K. I hope now she can have an easy retirement and driven weekly with a proud smile on her face to have now been reunited with her long lost engine also.. Please understand I am not in any way criticising any one as its has been a genuine concern and mistake. That's all.
Benjy911/Ben please contact me should you want to see the documents which I can't post online. Thanks
The car is an S and has always been an S. Where the honest confusion comes from is Benjy911' a dad owned the car for a brief time in 1978 and the car was badged as a T and had a T engine installed by Charles Ivey who sold the car to Ben's dad all those year ago.
The original S engine had a failure in 1977 hence the reason why Charles Ivey put a T engine on the car and badged it as a T. I have the original V5 with Ben's dads name on it as the previous owner with the chassis number on it of an S and engine number still listed as an S also along with the original copy of the first registration document showing the car as an S and with its original number plate from day one WMR911K along with chassis and engine numbers showing it as an S.
I can't unfortunately post the documents online because of data protection act and name and address of Ben's dad on them but happy to email Ben or his dad if requested.
This is an honest mistake about the car by Ben's dad and he believed he had T not an S but if he had checked the chassis number he would have know it was an S and the V5 stating on it the chassis number is an S and if he had checked the original S engine on the V5 he would have know that the engine in the car wasn't its original S engine. Let's be honest back then none of us needed to check engine numbers and chassis as all we wanted to do is drive them and they didn't have the value of today.
Ben's dad of course thought because of all these reasons that he owned a T rightly so but it was an S and always has been. I also have the COA a letter married up with the number plate from new and the chassis number and number plate WMR911K have always been together from new belonging to an S.
It would be great now for all the negatives about my car are repaired and updated as the car deserves it and after the original S engine ended up in a Targa T S Spec from around 1981 which I tracked down and purchased and the car now has its original S engine back in it after 35 years its been an amazing journey for WMR911K. I hope now she can have an easy retirement and driven weekly with a proud smile on her face to have now been reunited with her long lost engine also.. Please understand I am not in any way criticising any one as its has been a genuine concern and mistake. That's all.
Benjy911/Ben please contact me should you want to see the documents which I can't post online. Thanks
How interesting!
I am Benjy911's dad and it was me who bought the car from Charles Ivey back in September 1978.
Obviously this was a very long time ago and my brain has been addled over time by copious amounts of alcohol!
Anyway, does it matter that it was badged as a T rather than an S. This is 40 years ago. When I bought it, it was only seven years old but it really was an old shed! It had been badly resprayed and leaked everywhere but as a 25 year old, all I cared about was that it was a 911. One memorable evening I was driving between Newhaven and Seaford a little enthusiastically and it pirouetted in the middle of the road and my total lack of skill was not responsible for it returning to the direction it had been going in. A serious brown trouser moment!
When I moved it on, via the Hughes Motor Company, it had, if I remember correctly accumulated 80,000 miles!
I have had 911s ever since with only a short break when our triplets were born (Benjy911 is the eldest). My current is a 2013 Carrera 4 cabrio which I bought new in 2013 and carries the 911 EUF plate which I have had since 1980.
I am Benjy911's dad and it was me who bought the car from Charles Ivey back in September 1978.
Obviously this was a very long time ago and my brain has been addled over time by copious amounts of alcohol!
Anyway, does it matter that it was badged as a T rather than an S. This is 40 years ago. When I bought it, it was only seven years old but it really was an old shed! It had been badly resprayed and leaked everywhere but as a 25 year old, all I cared about was that it was a 911. One memorable evening I was driving between Newhaven and Seaford a little enthusiastically and it pirouetted in the middle of the road and my total lack of skill was not responsible for it returning to the direction it had been going in. A serious brown trouser moment!
When I moved it on, via the Hughes Motor Company, it had, if I remember correctly accumulated 80,000 miles!
I have had 911s ever since with only a short break when our triplets were born (Benjy911 is the eldest). My current is a 2013 Carrera 4 cabrio which I bought new in 2013 and carries the 911 EUF plate which I have had since 1980.
Hi Fred, thanks for such a rapid reply.. I also spun a car on the motorway in pooring rain and couldn't see a thing and hit a river of water at the bottom of a dip and spun round two or three times and like you ended up facing the correct way in the slow lane. It must have looked so skillful for the following drivers if they could see anything but I was an unwilling passenger in a car that wanted to do some water skiing. Couldn't wait to get home to change my pants.. ⛷️💩
I've just tried to email you but you are restricted so I could send you the V5 and car original docs.. I've also sent Ben an email so he has my phone number and email address now if you want to contact me direct or call me.
Its very important to correct the information online as its their for ever. I would appreciate it so much much if I can send you the V5 and anything else so you can post you've seen them and your satisfied the car is and always has been an S.. It will conclude the story full circle.
Great to see you are still driving Porsches. It would be great if you could drive your old S again as you wouldn't reconise it from 40 years ago now with its original matching number engine back where it belongs.
If you son Ben emails me back or calls me I will give him my address and if your ever down on Poole come and have a drive..
I've just tried to email you but you are restricted so I could send you the V5 and car original docs.. I've also sent Ben an email so he has my phone number and email address now if you want to contact me direct or call me.
Its very important to correct the information online as its their for ever. I would appreciate it so much much if I can send you the V5 and anything else so you can post you've seen them and your satisfied the car is and always has been an S.. It will conclude the story full circle.
Great to see you are still driving Porsches. It would be great if you could drive your old S again as you wouldn't reconise it from 40 years ago now with its original matching number engine back where it belongs.
If you son Ben emails me back or calls me I will give him my address and if your ever down on Poole come and have a drive..
Unfortunately, History is one of those things that cannot be changed, even if we want to.
When I bought WMR 911 K in 1978 it was advertised in Autocar or Motor as a 911T. I kept the advert for a long time but am fairly sure that I no longer have it. So the car I bought was a 911T it was not an S.
The car was sold to Hughes Motor Company in Heytesbury as I have mentioned before and it was sold to them as a 911T.
Throughout the 1980s, before wife and subsequent children, I was a regular customer at Heddell & Deeks AKA Chapelgate AKA Porsche Centre Bournemouth. The service manager there, David Hibbs, was, without doubt, by far, the most dedicated person in his position that I have ever met. He went way beyond what could be reasonably expected of any person, in any service department, in any other garage I have ever dealt with, and must have been responsible for more repeat custom that anyone else at Heddell & Deeks. When I told him that I was getting married he disappeared to the stores and returned with a bottle of Porsche champagne. Sadly he died far too early and there was a glowing obituary in Porsche Post.
Anyway, on one occasion I mentioned Hughes Motor Company in Heytesbury and he groaned! He told me that a 911 Turbo, bought from there as a pristine example had come into their workshops and it was discovered that the car had actually been written off and very badly put back together. It was a death trap! So who knows what happened to WMR 911 K while they had it.
So, I am afraid that I am not really interested in getting involved in the issue of whether WMR 911 K is an S or a T. As far as I was concerned it was a T but has now been rebadged as an S
It looks a very nice car now, but nothing will turn it into a car with one little old lady owner and 40,000 miles on the clock. It has a mysterious past but it is rather a long time ago ... and who cares!
When I bought WMR 911 K in 1978 it was advertised in Autocar or Motor as a 911T. I kept the advert for a long time but am fairly sure that I no longer have it. So the car I bought was a 911T it was not an S.
The car was sold to Hughes Motor Company in Heytesbury as I have mentioned before and it was sold to them as a 911T.
Throughout the 1980s, before wife and subsequent children, I was a regular customer at Heddell & Deeks AKA Chapelgate AKA Porsche Centre Bournemouth. The service manager there, David Hibbs, was, without doubt, by far, the most dedicated person in his position that I have ever met. He went way beyond what could be reasonably expected of any person, in any service department, in any other garage I have ever dealt with, and must have been responsible for more repeat custom that anyone else at Heddell & Deeks. When I told him that I was getting married he disappeared to the stores and returned with a bottle of Porsche champagne. Sadly he died far too early and there was a glowing obituary in Porsche Post.
Anyway, on one occasion I mentioned Hughes Motor Company in Heytesbury and he groaned! He told me that a 911 Turbo, bought from there as a pristine example had come into their workshops and it was discovered that the car had actually been written off and very badly put back together. It was a death trap! So who knows what happened to WMR 911 K while they had it.
So, I am afraid that I am not really interested in getting involved in the issue of whether WMR 911 K is an S or a T. As far as I was concerned it was a T but has now been rebadged as an S
It looks a very nice car now, but nothing will turn it into a car with one little old lady owner and 40,000 miles on the clock. It has a mysterious past but it is rather a long time ago ... and who cares!
Edited by Rustyrenault on Sunday 3rd March 09:31
Hi Fred, thanks once again for your reply.
I have offered to send you the registration docs and V5 stating you were the previous owner and the chassis number and engine number and number plate are all original for an S not a T during your ownership and all the following V5's stating the same. Yes you thought you had purchased a T from Charles Ivey but that was simply because of the original engine had failed so it was replaced with a T and badged as that until a replacement none matching numbers S engine was sort for it. The spoiler is an S the seats are for an S and it is and always was an S.
If you take me up on my offer and email me direct I will send you the docs during your ownership and the first registration docs of the car.
This way you can then post something complimentary about the car as it seems your still giving it a bit of a bashing without emailing me to see the 100% proof the car is and always has been from new an S.
I am sure you can appreciate my dedication in bringing its original S engine back to the car after over 40 years of it being seperated. I have even kindly offered you to come and drive the car if your in my area.
You say you don't want to get involved but your still posting that as far as your concerned you purchased a T and talking about Hughes Motor Company and a car they sold being dangerous nothing tiydi with my car what so ever. Can't you conceded as you said in your first response that you didn't check your chassis number against your V5 which would have reviled you owned an S and you didn't check the S engine number on your V5 against the replacement T engine and wonder why it wasn't the original S engine? You of course weren't checking these things 40 years ago as it wasn't that important then.
You say who cares. I car Fred as its my car your trying to imply it was a T which then gets read here online for ever when it's just not true.
You did own this car so briefly which you thought you had purchased a T but if you had checked it was in fact an S. Did you ever check the chassis and engine number and your V5 when you owned the car?
Not one of the very long term other owners have posted anything about the car and Josh Sadler who also owned the car put all the history together on it also and documented that the S engine failed the year before you purchased it from Charles Ivey with its replacement engine T.
I really would like to post the proof of V5 and first registration docs and of course COA here but it's data protection so please contact me Fred as I can't email you as your blocked and please see that you had an S with a T engine. Its quite simple and can be cleared up in 5 minutes and you can then post something possitive about my car here and end the negative comments when I clearly have all the evidence to the contrary.
I can understand this may make you look a little nieve that you never checked over the car and your V5 but why would you back then.
I can't make you contact me but I am inviting you to, for the sake of the final truth and my beautiful S that doesn't deserve all of this.
The facts are you purchased a car in good will that in fact was something else and you never checked.
Your right and I am right also Fred.
Wouldn't have needed to respond here online if you had emailed me direct and you can have my phone number also. The offer still stands for you to drive my S at anytime Fred.
Thanks
I have offered to send you the registration docs and V5 stating you were the previous owner and the chassis number and engine number and number plate are all original for an S not a T during your ownership and all the following V5's stating the same. Yes you thought you had purchased a T from Charles Ivey but that was simply because of the original engine had failed so it was replaced with a T and badged as that until a replacement none matching numbers S engine was sort for it. The spoiler is an S the seats are for an S and it is and always was an S.
If you take me up on my offer and email me direct I will send you the docs during your ownership and the first registration docs of the car.
This way you can then post something complimentary about the car as it seems your still giving it a bit of a bashing without emailing me to see the 100% proof the car is and always has been from new an S.
I am sure you can appreciate my dedication in bringing its original S engine back to the car after over 40 years of it being seperated. I have even kindly offered you to come and drive the car if your in my area.
You say you don't want to get involved but your still posting that as far as your concerned you purchased a T and talking about Hughes Motor Company and a car they sold being dangerous nothing tiydi with my car what so ever. Can't you conceded as you said in your first response that you didn't check your chassis number against your V5 which would have reviled you owned an S and you didn't check the S engine number on your V5 against the replacement T engine and wonder why it wasn't the original S engine? You of course weren't checking these things 40 years ago as it wasn't that important then.
You say who cares. I car Fred as its my car your trying to imply it was a T which then gets read here online for ever when it's just not true.
You did own this car so briefly which you thought you had purchased a T but if you had checked it was in fact an S. Did you ever check the chassis and engine number and your V5 when you owned the car?
Not one of the very long term other owners have posted anything about the car and Josh Sadler who also owned the car put all the history together on it also and documented that the S engine failed the year before you purchased it from Charles Ivey with its replacement engine T.
I really would like to post the proof of V5 and first registration docs and of course COA here but it's data protection so please contact me Fred as I can't email you as your blocked and please see that you had an S with a T engine. Its quite simple and can be cleared up in 5 minutes and you can then post something possitive about my car here and end the negative comments when I clearly have all the evidence to the contrary.
I can understand this may make you look a little nieve that you never checked over the car and your V5 but why would you back then.
I can't make you contact me but I am inviting you to, for the sake of the final truth and my beautiful S that doesn't deserve all of this.
The facts are you purchased a car in good will that in fact was something else and you never checked.
Your right and I am right also Fred.
Wouldn't have needed to respond here online if you had emailed me direct and you can have my phone number also. The offer still stands for you to drive my S at anytime Fred.
Thanks
Your right I have said enough and only wanted the negatives about the car corrected. I have all the evidence needed and yes the story of the car now with its original S engine is fantastic. The engine was in a well documented car since 1981 and thanks to Classic Chrome advertising the car and the engine number I took my chances and googled the engine number online and up popped and advert by Classic Chrome of a 911 T Targa S Spec which was owned by a doctor for many years who spent fortunes turning it into a S spec. Unfortunately for me Classic Chrome had sold the car to two Porsche enthusiast but were so kind to give me their number. I purchased the car and had the engines swapped over after 40 years. Had to pay a bit extra for the car as they knew they had my matching number engine.
The chances of finding the engine is incredible but thanks to Classic Chrome they listed the engine number details online and google came to the rescue. It will never happen again and in my life time.
The story is so much longer but I wont bore you with all of that.
The chances of finding the engine is incredible but thanks to Classic Chrome they listed the engine number details online and google came to the rescue. It will never happen again and in my life time.
The story is so much longer but I wont bore you with all of that.
I simply don't understand what you are trying to achieve, the history of the car shows that originally it was an S, then it became a T and now it is an S again.
That is indisputable and you cannot change that.
How much of what the car is comprised of now was actually attached to it when it left the factory?
It simply doesn't matter. Without any doubt it wore a 911T badge when I had it. I mentioned Hughes because it went there and who knows what they did to it.
Also, with all due respect, if you're asking that much for the car, I would suggest that you proof read your advertisement.
As far as I am concerned this matter is closed.
That is indisputable and you cannot change that.
How much of what the car is comprised of now was actually attached to it when it left the factory?
It simply doesn't matter. Without any doubt it wore a 911T badge when I had it. I mentioned Hughes because it went there and who knows what they did to it.
Also, with all due respect, if you're asking that much for the car, I would suggest that you proof read your advertisement.
As far as I am concerned this matter is closed.
Thanks Fred for your kind words. As far as I am concerned you don't want to contact me or call me or take me up on my kind offer of a drive of the car which I have offered as I thought it was nice for you to be reunited with a car you owned 40 years ago. I wish you all the best Fred and thanks for your replies on this matter. Its amazing you can remember 40 years back. I cant remember what happened last week. If your ever down in Poole please look me up for a beer and a chat.
Rusty - I think his point is: it was always an S. it’s V5 said it was an S, it just had a T engine for awhile, but was always an S.
Sure, his posts are a little anxious and slightly on the long side, but if I’d gone to the trouble to repatriate the original engine, I’m sure my posts would be the same!
Sure, his posts are a little anxious and slightly on the long side, but if I’d gone to the trouble to repatriate the original engine, I’m sure my posts would be the same!
Rustyrenault said:
I simply don't understand what you are trying to achieve, the history of the car shows that originally it was an S, then it became a T and now it is an S again.
That is indisputable and you cannot change that.
If that car left the factory as an S it has always been an S. Not sure how someone can change it to a T without hammering fake numbers on the chassis themselves? That is indisputable and you cannot change that.
I must have miss something?
Hi, thought Fred said the matter was now closed. No one hammered new chassis numbers on the car to make it a T. The chassis numbers are all correct as an S and have always been the same. If Fred had checked he would have know 40 years ago by the V5 and the chassis number it was an S chassis and the engine number on the V5 was still showing the matching numbers engine for an S.
Why is this so hard to understand?
All the V5 continued with the same chassis number..
We would not be debating this if a fellow Porsche man had contacted me direct. Seems like somone is determined to perpetuate this myth for who knows what reason.
A simple check of the car when it was purchased would have reviled all.
When I buy a car now I check chassis against V5 and check engine number and go to my Porsche book and double check. When your 25 back 40 years maybe that wasn't on your mind.
If I have to ill post the docs with names and addresses blocked out apart from F for Fred showing Fred as previous owner and S chassis and still S engine all be it the T engine had been installed by that time.. Charles Ivey obviously didn't send in the V5 to change the engine number to the T installed.
No one cared back then.
The car I found my engine in had been transformed to a T Targa S Spec at great expense to the doctor owner who loved the car for may years with my S engine and he had it badged as an S when of course it was a T Targa. Not so uncommon.
Sorry long messages but ive spent over 3 years on the car and it's time to stop the negative comments over someone owning the car less than a year in its 47 years of life when they had the option to have contacted me privately and this would have been cleared up in 5 minutes and being a fellow car man like me would then have posted his comment that he now realises that he owned a S badged as a T.
We wouldn't still be discussing this matter.. I've spent ten of thousands to bring the original engine back to the car and I am out of pocket immensely but I wanted to do this for the amazing story and for the car.. As you can tell I am extremely passionate about this and after all I have done for the car I only wanted any myths to of course be cleared up once and for all. Thanks
Why is this so hard to understand?
All the V5 continued with the same chassis number..
We would not be debating this if a fellow Porsche man had contacted me direct. Seems like somone is determined to perpetuate this myth for who knows what reason.
A simple check of the car when it was purchased would have reviled all.
When I buy a car now I check chassis against V5 and check engine number and go to my Porsche book and double check. When your 25 back 40 years maybe that wasn't on your mind.
If I have to ill post the docs with names and addresses blocked out apart from F for Fred showing Fred as previous owner and S chassis and still S engine all be it the T engine had been installed by that time.. Charles Ivey obviously didn't send in the V5 to change the engine number to the T installed.
No one cared back then.
The car I found my engine in had been transformed to a T Targa S Spec at great expense to the doctor owner who loved the car for may years with my S engine and he had it badged as an S when of course it was a T Targa. Not so uncommon.
Sorry long messages but ive spent over 3 years on the car and it's time to stop the negative comments over someone owning the car less than a year in its 47 years of life when they had the option to have contacted me privately and this would have been cleared up in 5 minutes and being a fellow car man like me would then have posted his comment that he now realises that he owned a S badged as a T.
We wouldn't still be discussing this matter.. I've spent ten of thousands to bring the original engine back to the car and I am out of pocket immensely but I wanted to do this for the amazing story and for the car.. As you can tell I am extremely passionate about this and after all I have done for the car I only wanted any myths to of course be cleared up once and for all. Thanks
Thought I would post the add of the T Targa S Spec 2.4 that I purchased from the owners after it was sold to them by Classic Chrome. Please note the owner who spent fortunes turning it into a S Spec had his car re badged as a S. Goes to show cars do have different engines and re badged. Unfortunately the price listed for the car wasn't what I had to end up paying for it from the two new owners who had purchased it from Classic Chrome.
https://www.classic-chrome.net/cars/porsche-911-24...
https://www.classic-chrome.net/cars/porsche-911-24...
my575manual2005 said:
Hello, E34-3.2. Thanks very much. It's nice to see a possitive post. Much appreciated.
My pleasure, your honesty and passion for that little car transpire trough your post. A buyer will appreciate what you went through to get it back to it's former glory. I have a 3.2 from 1987, love it despite it hasn't been used for years. Spent all my money on my "money pit" e34 M5. Hi Pete. G, this forum is amazing. I have reviled myself and I am a pain in the arse Pita. What is wrong with you people. I offered to send this man direct proof and he refuses to let me do that. This thread would come to an end instantly if he had done that and posted the results.
If that was me I would have been more than happy to have done that for somone the other way round.
If you like calling me a PITA for reserecting a very rare Porsche then your not a real car lover at all and nothing more than a forum lover only when have something negative to say and contribute and frankly offensive to say. I came on to this forum to contact a nan who could have ended all this rubbish. I'm not responding to one more negative post and frankly it's you being a royal PITA throwing in your 5 pence worth of negative nonsense. Have some respect for somone you don't know at all who knows his car a million times better than you negative clowns who are the real PITA'S. I appreciate the views of those who have something possitive and edifying to say and post. The rest I will not respond and write what you want if it makes you happy. I am a real car lover. No doubt this post will fire up more possitive posts.
I came on here to contact a member so he could contact me direct and privately believing he was a car lover and would be kind enough to do so to clear up a small matter and help out but how wrong was I.
If that was me I would have been more than happy to have done that for somone the other way round.
If you like calling me a PITA for reserecting a very rare Porsche then your not a real car lover at all and nothing more than a forum lover only when have something negative to say and contribute and frankly offensive to say. I came on to this forum to contact a nan who could have ended all this rubbish. I'm not responding to one more negative post and frankly it's you being a royal PITA throwing in your 5 pence worth of negative nonsense. Have some respect for somone you don't know at all who knows his car a million times better than you negative clowns who are the real PITA'S. I appreciate the views of those who have something possitive and edifying to say and post. The rest I will not respond and write what you want if it makes you happy. I am a real car lover. No doubt this post will fire up more possitive posts.
I came on here to contact a member so he could contact me direct and privately believing he was a car lover and would be kind enough to do so to clear up a small matter and help out but how wrong was I.
Thanks blackmaba for the well done. What a small world as you say. I missed the car also as Classic Chrome had sold it to two Porsche enthusiasts. Classic Chrome kindly contacted the new owners and I went and purchased the car for over what they had paid considerably as it was the one opertunity to finally reunite the matching numbers engine with my car that had been carrying a none matching S engine for many years since the replaced T engine in 1977.
Once I swapped over the engines at Canford Classics I sold the T Targa S Spec for considerably less than I bought her for.
I had to do it though for my car and the the fact I couldn't let this incredible opportunity and gift of fortune pass me by. Hence I am deeply passionate about this story and the outcome.
Once I swapped over the engines at Canford Classics I sold the T Targa S Spec for considerably less than I bought her for.
I had to do it though for my car and the the fact I couldn't let this incredible opportunity and gift of fortune pass me by. Hence I am deeply passionate about this story and the outcome.
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