Journalist sued after 917 engine explodes

[Henry-F]

Ok some people have been a bit off with their comments - welcome to Pistonheds! But you can't just say the journo has insurance so let them pay. The insurance is there to cover an error by the driver and so it is critical to establish if he went for a gear and got one 2 down from where he was aiming.

I also struggle to see how a free revving ( ie. in neutral ), engine could destroy it's self. I don't know what management system the car is running but there will be protection in place.

Regardless of racing experience I can easily envisage a scenario where driving an unfamiliar car with a quirky gear change the wrong gear was selected. The car wouldn't have been driven for the whole day, I imagine a short blast was scheduled and so it would be easy to try a little too hard knowing you had to hand it back in a moment.

It is always a worry when you drive someone else's car. There are times when a component lets go not through any fault of the driver but just because the time had come for it to do so. Woe betide you if it's your bum in the seat when it happens.

What a difficult case to judge on. Either way 1 side will feel hard done by.

Henry

[bergmeister]

50k repair for a 917 engine must have been a small/minor repair,some have limiters.You should always check a journo has the correct insurance,most cant drive that well.
How disrespectful you are, re David Piper.

[freedman]

bergmeister said:

50k repair for a 917 engine must have been a small/minor repair,some have limiters.You should always check a journo has the correct insurance,most cant drive that well.
How disrespectful you are, re David Piper.

Was thinking this, 917 engines dont come chep!

Hales is well respected as a driver and has driven that car/917s before from memory so should have been ok. Of course if it was his error that broke it, he should be laible, in my eyes at least. If the box was iffy as his defence appears to suggest why didnt he immediately stop the car and tell Piper instead of driving it till it caused an issue/ makes no sese at all

Agree about David Piper too, fantasically engaging character and a legend in my eyes

[spyderman8]

I wonder if any track day insurances actually cover this kind of damage? I know that race insurance doesn't always cover engine or gearbox failure, but even then this was allegedly mechanical failure caused by alleged driver error, rather than due to an "crash". Allegedly. And therefore might not be covered either.

[Herman Toothrot]

gsewell said:

Many classic cars do not have rev limiters. They only became common in the days of ECU's. However, it is not difficult to add one retrospectively to older engines - just look in Demon Tweeks for example products. Hence if there was a rev limit of 7000rpm, should the owner of a £1.25M car not have bothered to fit a £50 accessory?

I agree mad not to, almost negligent.

[Steve Rance]

Very sorry for both concerned. I hope that this can be settled amicably. In racing circles, it is a general rule that if you bend it you mend it. I would always insist on a car bring insured if I were driving/racing it for another owner for that reason. I know of one very respected driver paying £100,000 to an owner for wrecking a classic car at a well known race meeting.....and another well known one telling an owner 'forget it' when he did the same thing.

It always pays to establish the position of liability before you drive a car on a circuit.

Mark is a respected driver of Historic cars. A great shame

[agtlaw]

Interesting comments in this video. Richard Attwood saying that gear selection in the 917 is sensitive and "all works drivers" blew them up!

1:50 mins in...

http://youtu.be/UKAOhWhyDHY

[agtlaw]

Steve Rance said:

Very sorry for both concerned. I hope that this can be settled amicably.

It's at trial in the High Court. The time for amicable settlement has passed.

[bergmeister]

Both parties would know the risks,i have had many offers to drive my cars by journo,s dig deep on insurance and contracts etc,a lot of journos have very minimal insurance
David piper was the bravest driver of all 917 at the start ,as know one else would drive the cars in the early period,i would like to see some of the brave comments on here drive the 917 flat out down the ring straight in a piece of flimsy plastic and tubes with a fuel tank either side of you!!!

[Steve Rance]

True. There's chivalry and honour... Then there's the law.

Don't suppose I ever drive a 917 now :-(

[markcoznottz]

Impossible to prove he buzzed the engine without telemetry, surely the owner knows this, you presumably would be fairly switched on to have accrued enough wealth to purchase such a car. Hales is a very experienced racer, he no doubt respected the car, it broke, deal with it. Was it properly maintained etc, loads of questions.

[ChrisW.]

Steve Rance said:

Very sorry for both concerned. I hope that this can be settled amicably. In racing circles, it is a general rule that if you bend it you mend it. I would always insist on a car bring insured if I were driving/racing it for another owner for that reason. I know of one very respected driver paying £100,000 to an owner for wrecking a classic car at a well known race meeting.....and another well known one telling an owner 'forget it' when he did the same thing.

It always pays to establish the position of liability before you drive a car on a circuit.

Mark is a respected driver of Historic cars. A great shame

This car wasn't wrecked. David Piper cannot prove that the engine would not have lunched itself had he been driving. Mechanical failures often have a historical cause.

Were all the components lifed ?

If so, can David Piper prove that all were so far within their life that they could not (possibly) have failed ?

Because this, without reasonable doubt, is what he must do to win.

Not withstanding that this is a terribly unfortunate situation.

[Legacywr]

If you give your car to someone else to drive, you are taking the risk.. surely?

[freedman]

markcoznottz said:

Impossible to prove he buzzed the engine without telemetry, surely the owner knows this, you presumably would be fairly switched on to have accrued enough wealth to purchase such a car. Hales is a very experienced racer, he no doubt respected the car, it broke, deal with it. Was it properly maintained etc, loads of questions.

You realise Piper has owned his original 917 since 1969 and the one in question he accrued the parts that it is built from over may years, so nothing to do with accuing the wealth to buy a 1.5m plus car

And the was it properly maintained comment is truly laughable

[agtlaw]

ChrisW. said:

Because this, without reasonable doubt, is what he must do to win.

No, it's not a criminal case so forget about "reasonable doubt". In a civil case, the claimant must prove that something is probable / more likely than not.

[Henry-F]

agtlaw said:

No, it's not a criminal case so forget about "reasonable doubt". In a civil case, the claimant must prove that something is probable / more likely than not.

On a race car it's a brave man who takes that battle to court. In this case both parties seem to be in agreement that the cause of the failure is an over rev rather than a component failure per-se, so that makes the claimant's job considerably easier IMHO.

Henry

[BertBert]

So they are agreed it failed because of an over-rev and just arguing over liability?

Bert

[agtlaw]

BertBert said:

So they are agreed it failed because of an over-rev and just arguing over liability?

Bert

Yes. The claimant says driver error, the defendant says mechanical failure.

[mickyveloce]

its refreshing to hear of a journalist actually driving a car like this .
I've just read an (old) article in a classic car magazine where a journalist writes about drifting an aston db4 zagato , when it's clearly obvious he hasn't .
hope all goes well for Hales .

[ChrisW.]

And the only person who was there at the time, is the driver ..