991 GT3 Premiere - Tues 05 March @ 09:45 GMT

[sidsideways]

Firstly: Cayman-black the colours are on the configurator. way more than red, white and black.
Secondly: My experience of the 997.2GT3RS is no umph at all until 5k revs[Pardon the high tech language]so I am hoping for better from the 991GT3 and also hope for less noise as tracks are quieter than roads now in this upside down country.

[stefan1]

APOLO1 said:

PDK...The 4.0 does not feel…like super fast through the gears. There is a vid on YT up against a M6, the M6 kills it. No doubt in the right hands on track the 4.0 is epic…..

Edited by APOLO1 on Thursday 7th March 13:47

The test for torque has to be done in a constant gear - e.g. how does each car feel / accelerate in 3rd gear pulling from 3,000 rpm (or whatever).

I guarantee the 4.0 litre leaves the C2 for dead on that specific test.

Of course a PDK equipped C2 (or the new GT3) is going to then make up time on the gearshift - but that's not a torque advantage.

Indeed, I'd say my 997 GT3.2 (non RS) feels stornger than the 991 C2 on the torque front (and I think the figures back me up on this).

Cheers

[APOLO1]

Rob66, Yep afraid so.....Back to the 991 GT3, there is good reason for not posting the exact ring time....... sub 7.30, IMHO..sub 7.2x would be nearer the mark......... How much is the 918

[Ian_UK1]

fergus said:

Torque / BMEP figures are the ones you want to compare engines. This will give max BHP at a specific RPM.

BMEP is a product of volumetric efficiency (how much air you can get in), AFR (how well you use the air you've got into the cyl head to combust the fuel) and fuel conversion efficiency (how well you use the energy in the fuel). All of which are needed to generate torque at a specific RPM.

"for an NA engine, BMEP is a measure of how clever you are, for forced induction it's a measure of how brave you are" (LJK setright)

Absolutely right. Whilst Brake Mean Effective Pressure is the most effective measure of an engine's efficiency, unfortunately it all starts getting way to mathematical for me. (I've been mathematically dyslexic since I was a teenager, I'm afraid)! Thankfully, just converting known power to torque and vice versa is nice and simple!

Love the LJKS quote by the way. He was a very, very clever man (and a great writer) whose articles I looked forward to reading every month when I was younger. Sadly missed.

[El Guapo]

Joe911 said:

Huh. Shirley you would not want peak power at max. revs - you would expect that if you rev to the limit when you change up you are back in (well, near) peak power again.

Hit peak power, change up, hit peak torque, repeat. Shirley.

[cayman-black]

sidsideways said:

Firstly: Cayman-black the colours are on the configurator. way more than red, white and black.
Secondly: My experience of the 997.2GT3RS is no umph at all until 5k revs[Pardon the high tech language]so I am hoping for better from the 991GT3 and also hope for less noise as tracks are quieter than roads now in this upside down country.

I was thinking about the 991GT3RS,s new colours.

[APOLO1]

Stefan,
Respectfully I take your point. How ever my comments are based on owning and driving these cars over a long period of time and several thousands of miles. As such I have no hesitation what so ever in observing that irrespective of the torque output, that the 991s PDK, is significantly faster, in the real world than a 4.0 RS , Fact.

Interesting to note that whist on F1 factory visit last month, I noticed a 991S in the director’s car park, that’s our MDs, was the answer……says it all really

Edited by APOLO1 on Thursday 7th March 15:12

[APOLO1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvORbpBsjaM

Not sure if this works, If not YT M6 V 4.0RS

[stefan1]

APOLO1 said:

Stefan,
Respectfully I take your point. How ever my comments are based on owning and driving these cars over a long period of time and several thousands of miles. As such I have no hesitation what so ever in observing that irrespective of the torque output, that the 991s PDK is significantly faster, in the real world than a 4.0 RS , Fact.

Interesting to note that whist on F1 factory visit last month, I noticed a 991S in the director’s car park, that’s our MDs, was the answer……says it all really

Edited by APOLO1 on Thursday 7th March 15:11

I'd agree on "real world faster". I also own a 4.0 litre, 991 C2S and 3.8Gen 2 so have a similar breadth of experience. I was just being a pedant about torque versus acceleration through the gears!

[cayman-black]

APOLO1 said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvORbpBsjaM

Not sure if this works, If not YT M6 V 4.0RS

Bloody Hell that M6 is fast.

[thegoose]

I was sat in this car about an hour ago and it is rather lovely, as was the Cup car beside it.

I don't know if anyone's mentioned tyres yet, but the GT3 comes with Dunlop N0 Sport Max Race, the Cup car with Michelin slicks.

By contrast, ALL cars made by RUF come with Pilot Super Sports.

[BMCG]

curious that the Configurator indicates Michelins...can't quite make out the type...but appear to be Pilot Sport (Cups?)

[Sandy59]

thegoose said:

I was sat in this car about an hour ago and it is rather lovely, as was the Cup car beside it.

I don't know if anyone's mentioned tyres yet, but the GT3 comes with Dunlop N0 Sport Max Race, the Cup car with Michelin slicks.

By contrast, ALL cars made by RUF come with Pilot Super Sports.

Quick question, is the 918 also on the stand, haven't heard it mentioned in the press ??

[cardigankid]

mollytherocker said:

cardigankid said:

As I said earlier, they can keep it, along with their Cayennes and Panameras and the shreds of their integrity. The new Boxster and Cayman maybe worth a look, but for me I have bought what I regard as a proper 911.

It's all subjective though. You've just bought a 996 right? There are many that certainly don't believe this is a proper Porsche unless it is a GT3 or Turbo. Are they right too?
]

You are right, of course, it is to a great extent subjective, but I do think that one can detect at Porsche a steady move away from producing a car for the enthusiastic sports driver to producing prestige consumer products which have to be increasingly anodyne so as not to put off wealthy customers. And the 996 was indeed a step in that direction, but for me it was right to make it bigger and better finished. The previous models were too small, IMHO.

[BubblesNW]

New Chris Harris review is now on the PH site.

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyI...

Initial views on the GT3 agree with my earlier suggestion that there is room for a manual 991 GT3RS.
He also hinted about a chat with AP to discuss but nothing on the vid.

Anyway, off to bed now...Oulton Park RS day tomorrow. I'm in the slowly circling Cayman.

[OlberJ]

Thing is though, now the Cayman is here to fill that void, the 911 can come of age.

Porsche just need to get more serious with the R.

[stefan1]

cayman-black said:

APOLO1 said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvORbpBsjaM

Not sure if this works, If not YT M6 V 4.0RS

Bloody Hell that M6 is fast.

Indeed!

But it won't sound as good:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI-fLokjOxI

[AndrewMontgomery]

APOLO1 said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvORbpBsjaM

Not sure if this works, If not YT M6 V 4.0RS

By comparison, versus a standard mk 1 997 turbo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmIkQnTzwec

[thegoose]

Sandy59 said:

Quick question, is the 918 also on the stand, haven't heard it mentioned in the press ??

No

[SonnyM]

BubblesNW said:

New Chris Harris review is now on the PH site.

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyI...

Initial views on the GT3 agree with my earlier suggestion that there is room for a manual 991 GT3RS.
He also hinted about a chat with AP to discuss but nothing on the vid.

Anyway, off to bed now...Oulton Park RS day tomorrow. I'm in the slowly circling Cayman.

Doubt there will be a manual GT3 RS ever again, just as there will never be another Mezger in a road car...