Worth upgrading IMS bearing on apparently healthy Carrera?
Discussion
anonymous said:
[redacted]
You're not getting it are you?They are telling you after 50,000 miles or 4 years you should replace it. Regardless of how wonderful and infinitely superior they claim it to be over the Porsche item. So you should replace it. And again at the next 50,000 miles or 4 years ad infinitum.
So either you run the risk running the Porsche bearing (of whatever quality you think the Porsche bearing is I don't care) forever at zero cost to you (except for a ~5% failure rate) or run the fantastically superior LN bearing and follow their own advice and replace it every 50,000 miles or 4 years forever.
You are suggesting advising people to hell with LN Engineering's own advice, just leave it in the car because it's always going to be better than the Porsche item which should be lifed a lot sooner than the LN item? You're also telling everyone that if you decide to run the original Porsche item then you should introduce a life to it of say 20,000 miles as it's so inferior to the LN item.
So you're seriously suggesting that everyone with such cars, should as good practice change their IMS bearings every 20k (even if their cars are worth 9k?) forever just to avoid the 5% chance of their engine detonating (going against Baz's advice too?)
You must have very deep pockets.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Thanks for your email, much appreciated.That's fair regarding Northway - I actually bought my car from them a few months ago & have found them a pleasure to deal with. Even though I live about 100 miles away I will still use them for servicing & repair work if possible including a bearing upgrade if I decide to go ahead once the warranty is up.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Have to agree with you, he ain't reading, or understanding. It does seem odd that LN put a life on something that should, by your reasoning, which is hard to dispute, lasts better than the original bearing which in 95% of cases lasts the lifetime of the engine.
2004 MY C4S Cab can't remember the exact mileage about 70k. Excellent FPSH etc had mind replaced as a precaution together with the AOS.
Total cost was approx £1400 all in. Clutch etc was fine as was the bore scopes. Old bearing was in great condition. It did give me peace of mind and certainly help when sale time came. For those reasons alone it was worth it imo.
Total cost was approx £1400 all in. Clutch etc was fine as was the bore scopes. Old bearing was in great condition. It did give me peace of mind and certainly help when sale time came. For those reasons alone it was worth it imo.
scoobysnacks2 said:
I'm seriously considering buying a late 996 or early 997 Carrera and I was wondering if it's advisable to upgrade the IMS bearing on a car with no apparent problems or could this cause more harm than good for any reason (not just the £1.5k of harm to my pocket...)?
What do the experts like Autofarm and Hartech recommend?
Any thoughts appreciated.
I have a 2003 996 C2 with 125k miles,still with the original IMS and had the original clutch replaced 3k miles ago.What do the experts like Autofarm and Hartech recommend?
Any thoughts appreciated.
Looking through the forums etc on the internet about IMS failure which seems to affect 1 in 12 cars.
No expert but for what it's worth my take on it is this.
If it hasn't gone before the clutch is due get it done when you renew the clutch, you can have both done for 1249 + vat and the expected life on the new item is 75K which is likely to be the life of the ew clutch at best so repeat.
Putting this into perspective, a V6 Alfa MUST have the cam belt replaced at a maximum of 75K this will cost around 800 and if you add a clutch on top at 550, years ago I paid 700 to have mine done! total 1350 that will most likely need to replaced every 75 k and that's for an Alfa.
I would reckon 75K is the max on the Alfa, my belt went south at 72 just as it was due and it had the same effect as I would expect the IMS to have, sold as spares or repair!
No expert but for what it's worth my take on it is this.
If it hasn't gone before the clutch is due get it done when you renew the clutch, you can have both done for 1249 + vat and the expected life on the new item is 75K which is likely to be the life of the ew clutch at best so repeat.
Putting this into perspective, a V6 Alfa MUST have the cam belt replaced at a maximum of 75K this will cost around 800 and if you add a clutch on top at 550, years ago I paid 700 to have mine done! total 1350 that will most likely need to replaced every 75 k and that's for an Alfa.
I would reckon 75K is the max on the Alfa, my belt went south at 72 just as it was due and it had the same effect as I would expect the IMS to have, sold as spares or repair!
geordie5858 said:
Looking through the forums etc on the internet about IMS failure which seems to affect 1 in 12 cars.
No expert but for what it's worth my take on it is this.
If it hasn't gone before the clutch is due get it done when you renew the clutch, you can have both done for 1249 + vat and the expected life on the new item is 75K which is likely to be the life of the ew clutch at best so repeat.
Putting this into perspective, a V6 Alfa MUST have the cam belt replaced at a maximum of 75K this will cost around 800 and if you add a clutch on top at 550, years ago I paid 700 to have mine done! total 1350 that will most likely need to replaced every 75 k and that's for an Alfa.
I would reckon 75K is the max on the Alfa, my belt went south at 72 just as it was due and it had the same effect as I would expect the IMS to have, sold as spares or repair!
Nice comparison, gives a bit of real world context to what is a vastly over hyped issue.No expert but for what it's worth my take on it is this.
If it hasn't gone before the clutch is due get it done when you renew the clutch, you can have both done for 1249 + vat and the expected life on the new item is 75K which is likely to be the life of the ew clutch at best so repeat.
Putting this into perspective, a V6 Alfa MUST have the cam belt replaced at a maximum of 75K this will cost around 800 and if you add a clutch on top at 550, years ago I paid 700 to have mine done! total 1350 that will most likely need to replaced every 75 k and that's for an Alfa.
I would reckon 75K is the max on the Alfa, my belt went south at 72 just as it was due and it had the same effect as I would expect the IMS to have, sold as spares or repair!
Sine Metu said:
Nice comparison, gives a bit of real world context to what is a vastly over hyped issue.
I have run a Clio 172 Cup alongside my 996 C2, in 6.5yrs the Clio has cost me as much as the 996 to run! They both do similar miles, the main cost on the Clio being a gearbox rebuild but they are a known weak point. The 996 has had many common failures done eg. header tank, clutch, brakes, a/c condensors etc.Ok, IF the 996 decided to bore score (3.4 so unlikely) or grenade it's IMS then the tables would turn pretty drastically but with a bit of luck it'll be one of the vast majority that don't.
Edited by LordHaveMurci on Friday 2nd December 12:03
Would agree that if it can coincide with clutch/RMS etc, then at least you save some money. Of the last 20 we have replaced in situ, 17 of the originals were in perfect working order, one was starting to fail, one was showing signs of wear. One was completely shot, was replaced at the request of customer on the off chance that no damage was significant, but engine was shot.
So 17 out of 20 were fine.
We don't recommend either way - customer decision.
So 17 out of 20 were fine.
We don't recommend either way - customer decision.
Nineexcellence said:
Would agree that if it can coincide with clutch/RMS etc, then at least you save some money. Of the last 20 we have replaced in situ, 17 of the originals were in perfect working order, one was starting to fail, one was showing signs of wear. One was completely shot, was replaced at the request of customer on the off chance that no damage was significant, but engine was shot.
So 17 out of 20 were fine.
We don't recommend either way - customer decision.
Hi as a matter of interest were there any common denominators, similarities where the bearing was failing/had failed.So 17 out of 20 were fine.
We don't recommend either way - customer decision.
Miles, oil change intervals Engine size and age, cheers
m444ttb said:
I managed to dodge the IMS bearing bullet by luck (the fact it was in for a rebuild for oil consumption not withstanding...). Mine was very much on it's last legs when Hartech removed it. As I was having a rebuild anyway I went with the 997 shaft and bearing as a replacement.
Mileage here?There's a fine thread here about this.
Save your money and do what the 4th reply says; remove dust shields and let oil in.
http://www.911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=108257&si...
Save your money and do what the 4th reply says; remove dust shields and let oil in.
http://www.911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=108257&si...
geordie5858 said:
Nineexcellence said:
Would agree that if it can coincide with clutch/RMS etc, then at least you save some money. Of the last 20 we have replaced in situ, 17 of the originals were in perfect working order, one was starting to fail, one was showing signs of wear. One was completely shot, was replaced at the request of customer on the off chance that no damage was significant, but engine was shot.
So 17 out of 20 were fine.
We don't recommend either way - customer decision.
Hi as a matter of interest were there any common denominators, similarities where the bearing was failing/had failed.So 17 out of 20 were fine.
We don't recommend either way - customer decision.
Miles, oil change intervals Engine size and age, cheers
Looking back at the mileages on those last jobs, varies from 30000-130000 miles. The two that needed replacing due to signs of wear, one was 62000 and the other 91500 miles. So no real clue. Both of those cars had regularly servicing.
jimbobs said:
Nineexcellence said:
We don't recommend either way - customer decision.
Just out of interest - what do you replace them with?Do you go with a ceramic one, one of the oil-fed ones it just a standard bearing?
The issue is one of liability as well - we will warrant the installation, but this is an aftermarket bearing, so if anything goes wrong subsequently, it is at the customer risk. I don't push the bearings - it tends to be customers who want 'piece of mind'.
If it was my own car, then my view would be that I would change the bearing at time of clutch change. But then it would be my car and my risk.
Not had an issue with any LN bearing fitted so far on over 50 cars approx.
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