Prospective 991 GT3 Owners Discussion
Discussion
It would be great to hear from others (again perhaps - this is a long thread) with experience with either tyre on their 991 GT3. My car is sitting at the dealership and I have time to exchange tyres if I want to. I respect APOLO1's strong opinion. Are others persuaded to request a swap to Dunlops? I just seems incredible to me that Porsche would go to all the trouble to develop the car so carefully (apart from the fire thing!) and then fit crap tyres.
Lost The Plot said:
Make up your own mind re the Michelin's after watching the 2nd Chris Harris video... Put yourself 25 mins aside skip past the not so impressive Aston & Merc and watch how the GT3 performs on a wet track followed by on the road.
Anyone who hasn't taken delivery yet still have any doubts about purchasing a GT3?
To be fair Mr Harris is quite handy managing a cars tendency to swap ends and that video isn't exactly soaking wet, I think standing water can be an issue on these tyres.Anyone who hasn't taken delivery yet still have any doubts about purchasing a GT3?
Interestingly my GT-R ran Dunlops as standard and any standing water the car would simply glide, Michelin bought out some alternatives and they were far superior in the wet so it all depends on what they have been designed for I guess.
and... no I don't have any doubts can't wait!
Lost The Plot said:
Anyone who hasn't taken delivery yet still have any doubts about purchasing a GT3?
http://youtu.be/794j_U6Hau4
mhh said:
It would be great to hear from others (again perhaps - this is a long thread) with experience with either tyre on their 991 GT3. My car is sitting at the dealership and I have time to exchange tyres if I want to. I respect APOLO1's strong opinion. Are others persuaded to request a swap to Dunlops? I just seems incredible to me that Porsche would go to all the trouble to develop the car so carefully (apart from the fire thing!) and then fit crap tyres.
If I was going to fit different tyres, I'd probably go the while way and switch to Michelin Supersports rather than the Dunlops, moving back to the Michelin Cups in the summer...Macca993 said:
DCM2 I heard you were in an accident in your GT3 with your daughter. Im very pleased you survived without injury. Sorry about the car its a write off of course. Was this your first GT3?
DMC2Sorry to learn of this but obviously pleased the incident was without injury. Hopefully you and your family will rapidly put this behind you. All the best!
AndyBrew said:
To be fair Mr Harris is quite handy managing a cars tendency to swap ends and that video isn't exactly soaking wet, I think standing water can be an issue on these tyres.
Interestingly my GT-R ran Dunlops as standard and any standing water the car would simply glide, Michelin bought out some alternatives and they were far superior in the wet so it all depends on what they have been designed for I guess.
and... no I don't have any doubts can't wait!
as you point out.....CH is more than handy with a 911, how ever....The track has it own micro climate, as in tee shirts are the order of the day in the vid it looks warmer than 6d. the biggest prob with the MITS, is standing water and temp below 6d. On a damp track , ok you can get away with it, you just slide off.....On road its a crash.......Interestingly my GT-R ran Dunlops as standard and any standing water the car would simply glide, Michelin bought out some alternatives and they were far superior in the wet so it all depends on what they have been designed for I guess.
and... no I don't have any doubts can't wait!
mhh said:
It would be great to hear from others (again perhaps - this is a long thread) with experience with either tyre on their 991 GT3. My car is sitting at the dealership and I have time to exchange tyres if I want to. I respect APOLO1's strong opinion. Are others persuaded to request a swap to Dunlops? I just seems incredible to me that Porsche would go to all the trouble to develop the car so carefully (apart from the fire thing!) and then fit crap tyres.
I am not sure anyone is saying that they are crap. They may have a smaller and more focused operating window.Tyres are a compromise between many factors.
If you want ultimate grip in less than 6 degs, you should probably be fitting winters.
bigmowley said:
Who said it was wet when that car had its unfortunate shunt?
MPSCs are not desperate in the wet but you need to drive accordingly.
each to there own view, but having done 3k miles, 3 full on track days, and one track, and driven through a monsoon with Ds, the ds are much better...MPSCs are not desperate in the wet but you need to drive accordingly.
mollytherocker said:
I am not sure anyone is saying that they are crap. They may have a smaller and more focused operating window.
Tyres are a compromise between many factors.
If you want ultimate grip in less than 6 degs, you should probably be fitting winters.
you speak for ya self, have you driven one.......nope.....have you driven one in the wet at below 6.....nope.......they are crap, why do you think other made you sign warnings......lol......Tyres are a compromise between many factors.
If you want ultimate grip in less than 6 degs, you should probably be fitting winters.
mhh said:
It would be great to hear from others (again perhaps - this is a long thread) with experience with either tyre on their 991 GT3. My car is sitting at the dealership and I have time to exchange tyres if I want to. I respect APOLO1's strong opinion. Are others persuaded to request a swap to Dunlops? I just seems incredible to me that Porsche would go to all the trouble to develop the car so carefully (apart from the fire thing!) and then fit crap tyres.
I paid for my 997.2 GT3 in December 2009. In January 2010, I wrote the following letter to Porsche:Sierra Mike said:
Dear Sirs,
I am writing as a long standing Porsche enthusiast and customer and in the hope that you wil be able to help me with my predicament.
I have purchased a December build second generation 997 GT3 however the car has been supplied with Michelin Pilot Sport Cup Tyres. I have researched tyre choice thoroughly and am consequently fearful of the Michelins fitted to the car. The general consensus regarding the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup is that it is very sensitive to temperature and inflation pressure and it has very little grip if it is not sufficiently warmed up. My understanding is that the optimal temperature for this tyre is 160 - 220°F and, Whilst this is fine on a track, it is unlikely that the tyre would be reach these levels on most journeys on the road thus resulting in poor grip. Additionally, the low level of tread on this tyre makes it considerably more dangerous in the wet than the Pirelli P Zero Corsa.
Whilst I appreciate that a GT3 can be factory fitted with either Michelin Pilot Sport Cup or Pirelli P Zero Corsa tyres, the specification I selected for my GT3 is clearly a 'Comfort Spec' and the car will be driven primarily on the road rather than on the track. After all, the reason I chose a GT3 rather than a GT3RS is that the GT3 is a road car that can be tracked in contrast to the GT3RS which is a track car which can be used on the road.
I have, in part, selected the specification for my car so that my four year old nephew (a Porsche enthusiast since he was two years old) can be a regular passenger, hence I didn't specify bucket seats. As a consequence, I am very reluctant to take delivery of the car till the tyres are changed.
It is widely considered that the Pirelli P Zero Corsa is a considerably better tyre in the wet and a better tyre all round for road use than the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup. My car remains undriven and completely new at my OPC so, with regard to all of the above, I would therefore be grateful if you could alleviate my concerns by supplying my OPC with a set of Pirelli P Zero Corsa tyres for my car in exchange for the unused Michelin Pilot Sport Cups it was supplied with. Thank you.
Yours faithfully,
Sierra Mike
As a consequence, someone from Porsche phoned and told me they appreciated my business. He also said that my OPC would change the tyres on the car to Corsas at no cost to me. Both Porsche and my OPC were outstanding and I felt like a valued customer. At the time, the MPSC was well documented as being a dangerous tyre however the same cannot be said for the present tyres. That said, just about every car delivered to a customer has been on Michelins but Porsche is running its own cars on Dunlops. Draw your own conclusions. I am writing as a long standing Porsche enthusiast and customer and in the hope that you wil be able to help me with my predicament.
I have purchased a December build second generation 997 GT3 however the car has been supplied with Michelin Pilot Sport Cup Tyres. I have researched tyre choice thoroughly and am consequently fearful of the Michelins fitted to the car. The general consensus regarding the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup is that it is very sensitive to temperature and inflation pressure and it has very little grip if it is not sufficiently warmed up. My understanding is that the optimal temperature for this tyre is 160 - 220°F and, Whilst this is fine on a track, it is unlikely that the tyre would be reach these levels on most journeys on the road thus resulting in poor grip. Additionally, the low level of tread on this tyre makes it considerably more dangerous in the wet than the Pirelli P Zero Corsa.
Whilst I appreciate that a GT3 can be factory fitted with either Michelin Pilot Sport Cup or Pirelli P Zero Corsa tyres, the specification I selected for my GT3 is clearly a 'Comfort Spec' and the car will be driven primarily on the road rather than on the track. After all, the reason I chose a GT3 rather than a GT3RS is that the GT3 is a road car that can be tracked in contrast to the GT3RS which is a track car which can be used on the road.
I have, in part, selected the specification for my car so that my four year old nephew (a Porsche enthusiast since he was two years old) can be a regular passenger, hence I didn't specify bucket seats. As a consequence, I am very reluctant to take delivery of the car till the tyres are changed.
It is widely considered that the Pirelli P Zero Corsa is a considerably better tyre in the wet and a better tyre all round for road use than the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup. My car remains undriven and completely new at my OPC so, with regard to all of the above, I would therefore be grateful if you could alleviate my concerns by supplying my OPC with a set of Pirelli P Zero Corsa tyres for my car in exchange for the unused Michelin Pilot Sport Cups it was supplied with. Thank you.
Yours faithfully,
Sierra Mike
Sorry about the lack of sensitivity from downunder. Those photos have been on this board a few days now on another thread under Carrera GT. I should have simply added a link but I didnt know how. The owner/driver had the accident within 24 hrs and 80km of picking up the new car and posting those photo of it in his driveway. It was RS if I recall. The main thing he and his daughter were totally unharmed. It is of course a shame about the loss. Im pretty sure it happened at the end of last year...
APOLO1 said:
mollytherocker said:
I am not sure anyone is saying that they are crap. They may have a smaller and more focused operating window.
Tyres are a compromise between many factors.
If you want ultimate grip in less than 6 degs, you should probably be fitting winters.
you speak for ya self, have you driven one.......nope.....have you driven one in the wet at below 6.....nope.......they are crap, why do you think other made you sign warnings......lol......Tyres are a compromise between many factors.
If you want ultimate grip in less than 6 degs, you should probably be fitting winters.
This compromise might make them 'awesome' at higher temps.
Andy agree Mr H has a smattering of talent but whilst it's not a soaking track it's definitely wet. Don't know about others but I for one would never be tempted to press hard in the wet on any road, especially in a car I've paid a six figure sum for!!
Like many on here I paid my deposit months ago and the whole experience has been like a tough pregnancy;-
Natural selection you've picked your partner (GT 3)
You maker the love (configuration)
You're seed is sown (deposit)
You research childbirth (join piston heads)
First scan (worlds 1st reviews released)
You feather the nest (clear out garage)
2nd scan (build slot provided)
Wife gets twinges (1st indication of trouble)
Wife in Labour (cars on boat)
Wife gives birth (car arrives at OPC)
Child may be sick (OPC puts car in quarantine)
To be continued......
Like many on here I paid my deposit months ago and the whole experience has been like a tough pregnancy;-
Natural selection you've picked your partner (GT 3)
You maker the love (configuration)
You're seed is sown (deposit)
You research childbirth (join piston heads)
First scan (worlds 1st reviews released)
You feather the nest (clear out garage)
2nd scan (build slot provided)
Wife gets twinges (1st indication of trouble)
Wife in Labour (cars on boat)
Wife gives birth (car arrives at OPC)
Child may be sick (OPC puts car in quarantine)
To be continued......
Lost The Plot said:
Andy agree Mr H has a smattering of talent but whilst it's not a soaking track it's definitely wet. Don't know about others but I for one would never be tempted to press hard in the wet on any road, especially in a car I've paid a six figure sum for!!
Like many on here I paid my deposit months ago and the whole experience has been like a tough pregnancy;-
Natural selection you've picked your partner (GT 3)
You maker the love (configuration)
You're seed is sown (deposit)
You research childbirth (join piston heads)
First scan (worlds 1st reviews released)
You feather the nest (clear out garage)
2nd scan (build slot provided)
Wife gets twinges (1st indication of trouble)
Wife in Labour (cars on boat)
Wife gives birth (car arrives at OPC)
Child may be sick (OPC puts car in quarantine)
To be continued......
hahaha, like it. But if its sick they should send it back home..Like many on here I paid my deposit months ago and the whole experience has been like a tough pregnancy;-
Natural selection you've picked your partner (GT 3)
You maker the love (configuration)
You're seed is sown (deposit)
You research childbirth (join piston heads)
First scan (worlds 1st reviews released)
You feather the nest (clear out garage)
2nd scan (build slot provided)
Wife gets twinges (1st indication of trouble)
Wife in Labour (cars on boat)
Wife gives birth (car arrives at OPC)
Child may be sick (OPC puts car in quarantine)
To be continued......
mhh said:
It would be great to hear from others (again perhaps - this is a long thread) with experience with either tyre on their 991 GT3. My car is sitting at the dealership and I have time to exchange tyres if I want to. I respect APOLO1's strong opinion. Are others persuaded to request a swap to Dunlops? I just seems incredible to me that Porsche would go to all the trouble to develop the car so carefully (apart from the fire thing!) and then fit crap tyres.
Here's what I've found. I've done over 3000miles in mine on Michelins, and I find it brilliantly communicative on these tyres. I haven't driven this car on Dunlops, so can't comment if they're better or worse in the conditions I've driven. I've driven it on 5C wet Welsh mountain roads, heavy rain on the A26 autoroute from Calais down to Lyon, a 0C slushy mountain pass from Gap to Sisteron, and on a bone dry N85 Route Napoleon from Castellane down to Grasse.
In the dry, grip is off the scale, it'll take aggressive throttle inputs on 2nd gear hairpins, and the chassis just sticks. Under very heavy braking (on steel discs), you can feel the edge of grip up to the point of ABS intrusion, then just come off the brake a fraction, you get a great feel for what the chassis is doing.
On wet welsh mountain roads, the tyres do find a lot of grip, and it'll take a surprising amount of throttle on 2nd and 3rd gear corners, but you're always mindful of the fact that the stability control isn't particularly intrusive, so the car will move around a bit before the electronics bring it back into line. Not always such a laugh on narrow roads..! In these conditions, a 991 C2S is faster and easier to drive, but nowhere near as engaging as the GT3.
On a very wet autoroute in the heavy rain, you really wouldn't want to hit any serious standing water, but it is plenty stable enough at 150kph. Toll booth and petrol station exits are notoriously greasy in the rain, but it'll take full throttle in 2nd and 3rd gear, right up to about 7k rpm, then as the torque peaks, it'll break traction. Again, surprisingly little traction control intrusion, just noise, wheelspin and smiles. In these conditions, I'd probably feel safer in my Golf on winter boots, but it would all be rather dull....!
On the slushy mountain pass, I really needed to drive it as carefully as I dared. I didn't fancy getting it stuck in a ditch..
The tyre pressures of 2.1 front, and 2.3 rear need to be set at 20C, so at an ambient temperature of 10C, you need to drop them 0.1 bar. I have a calibrated pressure gauge, and can confirm that the TPM sensors are accurate..!
I need to remember its a c. 500Bhp rear wheel drive car, on summer tyres, optimised for the dry, but at no point so far have I wished for different tyres. If anything, in low grip conditions, you can really feel what the car is doing. In the dry, the grip level is so high, you've got to be doing daft speeds to reach the edge of grip available.
Hope this helps...?
Lost The Plot said:
Andy agree Mr H has a smattering of talent but whilst it's not a soaking track it's definitely wet. Don't know about others but I for one would never be tempted to press hard in the wet on any road, especially in a car I've paid a six figure sum for!!
This I agree with completely and quite frankly I can't imagine the 991 GT3 can be any worse than my C63 AMG on winter tyres at 10 degrees, it's like bambi on ice!and as you say driving like a loon in wet conditions is asking for trouble!
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